New Pricing for Reason 12 - Upgrades now 199 from 129

[Loque]

Goes to show they do listen to us

My guess is its going to cost $199.00

If you suggest it here, it will be considered. Just like the talk about subscriptions "Will they do it?" "Would you subscribe?" and then we had Reason+

Keeping my eye on the thread about RS being sold to Apple

Oh dear... Than i need to buy a iPhone as a dongle...

[bxbrkrz]

Watching 52 Reason / Record Tips - Week 25: Replacing a Live Keyboard Rig with Reason

The good old days when Reason was stable enough for touring, and no need for an internet connection.

"Evolution."

[craste]

It is almost as if it went something like this in the Reason Studios boardroom:

"Right, we've annoyed the users who use it as their only DAW by doing absolutely sweet FA with the quality of life sequencer upgrades.
We have narked off the users by implementing a Reason + subscription, which seems to get all the love and attention from us.
We've created a Rack VST which has had all the TLC from us and pushed a load of people to try (and fall in love with) other DAW's
We've provided a road map and only slightly touched upon the fact we might do any sequencer quality of life improvements."

"What else can we do.....to....you know, really piss them off some more?"

"I know, lets announce we are going to almost double the price of the upgrade!"

"No, no, you can't do that......., that’s proper taking the Michael, especially since the latest release is buggy as hell and many people are not very excited at the moment as they feel the upgrade doesn't really hold much value to them, especially as there’s next to nothing in terms of workflow improvements."

"yeah but we've given them some new toys"

"FFS, they have more toys than Hamley's; they want to be able to make tunes quicker and stay more organised - have you not read the wish- lists?"

"I wish I worked at Ableton, but that’s not happening is it"

"What about just a 25% increase this year and see what the reaction is, and then perhaps, do the same again next year?"

"No, sod them, let’s go the whole hog, we love all the flaming we get on Reason Talk and all social media platforms. ha ha"

"But how will we ever top that? You know all the flaming we'll get?"

"That's easy, just announce that Reason is just a Rack VST for Reason 13! Booom! No pain in the arse DAW, just the rack....I've even thought of the strap line 'Reason 13 - Unlucky for some' - that will be our best ever!"

[flexluthor]

There is nothing in a Reason update worth that much. This will be my last Reason upgrade, just so I can get M1 and High res graphics. I understand inflation, but reason is giving less and less each year while the competition gets better and better.

How many failed half assed business plans have they tried now?

1. Lets jump on the DAW thing. Thats the ticket. Oh wait... that didnt work, it pissed off all the old reason users. Lets just jam them together.

2. Apps are the future. Mobile. Apps! Its a golden ticket. Then they abandon it all after it turned out not to the the gravy train they thought following the herd would be.

3. Collaboration! That's it. Social Media! Doh. Half assed it again. Ended up selling it off.

4. App stores! Thats it! We'll be just like Apple and make an App Store. Everyone loves those! Well... its still there but they don't even push it anymore.

5. SaS is the big new thing. Look everyone is going to it, lets do that too! It'll totally be a hit! Doh.

These are all actions of a flailing company that really has no idea what its doing. Just commit to something.

[fieldframe]

It is almost as if it went something like this in the Reason Studios boardroom:

"Right, we've annoyed the users who use it as their only DAW by doing absolutely sweet FA with the quality of life sequencer upgrades.
We have narked off the users by implementing a Reason + subscription, which seems to get all the love and attention from us.
We've created a Rack VST which has had all the TLC from us and pushed a load of people to try (and fall in love with) other DAW's
We've provided a road map and only slightly touched upon the fact we might do any sequencer quality of life improvements."

"What else can we do.....to....you know, really piss them off some more?"

"I know, lets announce we are going to almost double the price of the upgrade!"

"No, no, you can't do that......., that’s proper taking the Michael, especially since the latest release is buggy as hell and many people are not very excited at the moment as they feel the upgrade doesn't really hold much value to them, especially as there’s next to nothing in terms of workflow improvements."

"yeah but we've given them some new toys"

"FFS, they have more toys than Hamley's; they want to be able to make tunes quicker and stay more organised - have you not read the wish- lists?"

"I wish I worked at Ableton, but that’s not happening is it"

"What about just a 25% increase this year and see what the reaction is, and then perhaps, do the same again next year?"

"No, sod them, let’s go the whole hog, we love all the flaming we get on Reason Talk and all social media platforms. ha ha"

"But how will we ever top that? You know all the flaming we'll get?"

"That's easy, just announce that Reason is just a Rack VST for Reason 13! Booom! No pain in the arse DAW, just the rack....I've even thought of the strap line 'Reason 13 - Unlucky for some' - that will be our best ever!"

I read this aloud trying to sound like characters in a Guy Ritchie movie and I did enjoy myself.

[DaveyG]

I does feel a bit like they've just undone some of the goodwill they earned with the roadmap and the Reward store stuff. Always an interesting ride...

[strangers]

This helped make up my mind on upgrading just like it appears to have for others. The same goes for switching to subscription. Hard pass.

I'll stick with what I have (11 Suite) while continuing to test drive other DAWs again. This sounds like a good time to throw the old "vote with your money" line out there.

[pushedbutton]

If feel that this information would be have been better received if it part of the roadmap and was after the promised features were implemented.

[craste]

I read this aloud trying to sound like characters in a Guy Ritchie movie and I did enjoy myself.

Ha ha brilliant!

[Chi-Individual]

I've honestly gone thru a range of emotions with this news because:
1. I love Reason(Since R2)
2. I am not good with change(as far as moving to anther DAW)
3. My trial experience with R12
4. I'm cheap (JBH)

And I've landed on this. This may be me looking thru rose colored glasses but I feel like this could be the ultimate attempt at transparency and here's how. I've read and actually heard from people in business, self employed, where they all hit the point where if they wanted to continue to improve the quality in their product/service or keep with rises in the cost of living, they've had to employ more/better people than their current staff(permanent employees or contractors) and that has always meant spending more money to deliver the product/service. If a product/service is already top quality then they are ok with having the customers eat the costs of this. And because it's quality "most" customers are ok with eating that cost.

Example: My barber charges $30 a cut now. In the beginning, 7yrs ago, it was $20. I get it. Cost of living is going up so he can't stay at $20

So my point in saying that I see it as transparency is this, it takes a lot to say to your target audience, we need more money to keep this sustainable and deliver the product you want. At least that's how I'm seeing it. But I will agree the timing of this couldn't be worse. And with October just around the corner.

[avasopht]

Can you explain how to get the Studio One Pro and Atom controller deal? I was just about to pull the trigger on getting the Studio One crossgrade for $300 but it sounds like you know of a better deal.

You can often find an upgrade from Artist to Professional going below market value via Google Shopping or eBay.

That's how I got Korg Collection 2 on the cheap. I got a Korg LE on eBay for $30, saving me $50-100.

[Lancaster]

If they wanted to make more money they should have raised the price higher and thrown in a year subscription of reason plus with the upgrade. Would be like selling insurance to the paranoid.

[avasopht]

If feel that this information would be have been better received if it part of the roadmap and was after the promised features were implemented.

Yep.

This is part of what worries me about the new direction.

A lot of their promotions require a leap of faith that it will pay off. The 50% R+ promo was before we even had any idea what features were going to be in it. That's why I never took it up. There was a promo shortly before announcing R+ as well, and I suspected something was around the corner that would invalidate that purchase.

And here, we are confronted with a price rise before we've seen a completed R12.

In theory that should make the current price more attractive, because upgrading now would mean you can avoid paying $200 when the price goes up.

But that just makes me more sceptical.

[R303]

Quite a lot for a plugin. They always manage to turn users against themselves.
No one can claim that the communication is right.

[ArcoZ]

Everything goes to the subscription model.
The price of Reason was pretty high in comparison to other DAWs. Now R12 is going to be almost the priciest one.
Rack Extensions cost millions. Drum Sequencer 75 Euro - are you kidding me? It's worth 19.

It is the policy of CEO. Force people to buy subsciption. But I hate it as well as most of the people. It's like Klaus Schwab's speach - "You will own nothing and you'll be happy". FU

[R303]

Sales are great, but at some point interest will also wane.
Opening for the VST market is only possible once, the new Combinator can only be updated once so clearly.

[joeyluck]

You know I try to be optimistic...or as other people like to refer to it, "being a fanboi" lol.

I'm with some of the others that say, "Let's wait and see what gets included in R12". Also, I can't make a very good critique of the new price until we see what is included with R12 and then what gets released for R13. After all of that I think I can make a better judgement. And if these roadmap blogs continue every few weeks, that could be great! We'll at least know what is on the way. Right now, we only know what is to come through January.

Today, Reason 12 is $129 and I think the new Combinator and Mimic alone are worth that price. And while there are other things in Reason I want to see developed (MPE!!!!!), I think even if the Combinator is further developed during R12, that could be worth the new upgrade price IMO.

And if Reason upgrades get included in the Rewards section, that would certainly help to alleviate much of this IMO. Some folks asked about upgrade tiers, which would be nice for the loyal customers. But I also understand the simplicity of one price for all via retailers. Have you ever searched to buy other DAWs? It gets very confusing browsing the 20 or 30 something options to upgrade from every version number and every iteration.

However, another way to approach it would be via the Rewards shop and users on the most previous version could get it for less there, or be given more points, etc. I mean, just by the nature of how it should work, if you bought R11, then you should have more points to spend on R12 than the person who didn't buy R11. So I hope they manage to fix the Rewards shop and include Reason.

[hurricane]

Called it!!!

viewtopic.php?p=537673#p537673

[MrFigg]

However, another way to approach it would be via the Rewards shop and users on the most previous version could get it for less there, or be given more points, etc. I mean, just by the nature of how it should work, if you bought R11, then you should have more points to spend on R12 than the person who didn't buy R11. So I hope they manage to fix the Rewards shop and include Reason.

Yep. This. And by the looks of it they’re really trying to fix stuff. All of a sudden there’s a dialogue and I think this is the first time I’ve ever heard RS “kind of” admitting that they haven’t been perfect. Nah…I like the changes that have taken place the last week and even those small actions are enough to start rebuilding my faith. And if folk don’t like the upgrade price there’s always the option to shop around, wait for a sale or hop over a few versions.
Props. Back to basics. Love it.
(Still 12 to the end though )

[RoryM0]

Drum Sequencer 75 Euro - are you kidding me? It's worth 19.

You know I was browsing the rewards store yesterday after the news that all RS REs are in there too now. I got drum seq free with R10 upgrade so had never even thought about the price - I was genuinely creased over to learn it costs £64. Like... Are you serious? Sixty-four golden clams? Absolutely not worth that much in terms of raw functionality. Low miff.

[Gardinski]

You know, guys - from a certain perspective you could argue that the price hasn't actually risen at all. Sounds stupid to say that, but bear with me...

(I posted this next bit elsewhere (Facebook), but it's relevant to this thread and it saves me retyping.)

I suppose it's possible that they're thinking of expanding the interval between major new editions... With the publication of the 'road map' (TM), they've given us a glimpse of the way things might develop, and I'm enjoying the new transparency - even though it's early days still. (I like the fact that James Pember in particular is always so communicative and so willing to help.)

The earlier editions tended to come out in roughly an 18 month cycle (I think). With the last two versions, they've shifted to a two-year cycle.

Paying potentially £199 every two years isn't much different from paying £129 every 18 months, especially when you factor in the inevitable inflation.

If we view it in those terms, it's jumped from £7.16 a month (129/18) to £8.29 a month (199/24).

It just FEELS like a lot more when you first see those stark figures.

From this perspective, and providing we get the regular point updates and gradual improvements we're both hoping for, it could be a really healthy model.

There are, of course, a lot of little improvements which I'm hoping to see over the course of the next year, but in the absence of a major leap in technology, I'm not sure what major new feature could be added which would make Reason 13 an imperative purchase any sooner than the end of 2023. (Maybe the video sync, which a lot of people have expressed an interest in. As a film and theatre-maker, that would definitely be useful for me.)

So yeah - a mature 'two-year-plus' cycle between versions (with ongoing point updates on the way) seems like the way ahead, and that makes the new figure a lot more acceptable. And we always have the option to skip a version if it doesn't appeal to us. I feel confident I could take Reason 11/12 (or even Reason 10) and make a lifetime of music without ever really needing anything else.

[gullum]

Quite a lot for a plugin. They always manage to turn users against themselves.
No one can claim that the communication is right.

for any new customer $500 to use RRP in a DAW is not going to be the first choice for many people I would guess.

[artechokeheart]

Trying to hit quotas for quarterly sales might look good to those uninformed or either uncaring but its just another way to slowly kill anything good, let alone supporting this in hopes it might get better.



Its sort of disheartening to see in this thread some of the rose colored glasses that people can view something from behind because they don't want to give it up.

I am disappointed, too. I enjoy reason, which is why I upgraded to R11 last black friday and will likely use it for many years to come, but there is absolutely no way I'm supporting a half-finished, buggy release because you're unhappy people asked for refunds or didn't purchase after hearing about it or its lack of features.

If you don't agree with it then put your money where your mouth is and stop compulsive spending on whatever their massively detached sales and marketing feeds you because you're too reluctant to accept change. It is the only thing that will change this direction, instead of PR release "road maps" down a road with, and I quote from a recent daily spam "PLEASE BUY REASON 12" email:

"Not to flog a dead horse, but we just wanted to make sure that you knew that Reason 12 has arrived"

I thought this level of poetic irony was reserved for Dante, but riding this dead horse down an imaginary road map is exactly what is happening and if you disagree then stop fucking giving them your money because it is the only thing that they listen to.

[Carpainter]

Everything goes to the subscription model.
The price of Reason was pretty high in comparison to other DAWs. Now R12 is going to be almost the priciest one.
Rack Extensions cost millions. Drum Sequencer 75 Euro - are you kidding me? It's worth 19.

It is the policy of CEO. Force people to buy subsciption. But I hate it as well as most of the people. It's like Klaus Schwab's speach - "You will own nothing and you'll be happy". FU

"You will never own Reason, and you will eat the bugs."

[PropitiousME]

Called it!!!

viewtopic.php?p=537673#p537673

Indeed, well done sir. This thread will go down as legendary by the time they're done getting ripped up and down. They should run a joint campaign for unsubs... great way to reign in those pesky redundant email blasts they've been hammering our inboxes with lately: