New Pricing for Reason 12 - Upgrades now 199 from 129

[Jagwah]

So as the poll stands now about 12% of users are (sort of) OK with the new price, but 88% (!!!) is NOT.
The CEO and board of directors might be wise to have another think about this move.

It's the sort of thing a company can not go back on once it's been put out there. I can only hope the upgrades of the future are going to be much bigger, I would gladly pay it in that case but as far as Reason 12 and the roadmap of promises is concerned, it's not that much bigger than a usual upgrade and it's a US $200 upgrade in a few weeks.

[Eprom]

So as the poll stands now about 12% of users are (sort of) OK with the new price, but 88% (!!!) is NOT.
The CEO and board of directors might be wise to have another think about this move.

It's the sort of thing a company can not go back on once it's been put out there

It happens all the time.
Just one example: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... f-devices/

[Melody303]

In broad terms, I share the majority sentiment here. I'm still using Reason 10. 11 didn't have any compelling features for me, 12 does have one, with the new version of the Combinator. Back in the days Reason 3 was released, I really underestimated the Combinator, but it didn't take long to come to my senses about its extreme usefulness, and I expect the same of the new Combinator. I'm just not in a financial position to upgrade just yet, and expected to pay up and upgrade 2-3 months down the road. Then I read many posts complaining about performance issues - oh well, good thing I'm not an early adopter, and now the price hike - damn, I'm not an early adopter.

In a vacuum, the price hike isn't that big of a deal to me. It's not like I get every version, and with a bit of planning, I can manage it. Reason is my favorite product, it is essential to me.
But in relation to the timing, to the state of the current version, to the rest of the market, and so on and so on, it's a pretty awful call on the part of RS.
It doesn't affect me much either way. I'll still only upgrade when the new versions have features that interest me, and that seems to be decreasing in frequency. Even if RS start doing a better job of listening to you all about feature requests, that wouldn't raise the frequency of my interest in new versions.

I guess it's a good thing that they have a separate team working on Rack Extensions (as some have often said), as it is the instruments/effects/players that attract my money (and even there I'm extremely picky). The DAW in itself is pretty close to perfection for me, and on that side, there are scant few things that might interest me to the tune of $200. On the current road map, there are none at all.

[Jagwah]

It's the sort of thing a company can not go back on once it's been put out there

It happens all the time.
Just one example: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... f-devices/

Well I stand corrected but that was a seriously bad and almost illegal treatment of customers by Cricut, no wonder the backlash was strong enough to make them reverse the decision.

It's one thing to have a new business with a subscription model - it's an entirely different universe when you have existing paying customers and want to bring in a new subscription model - the paying customers are going to lose out at some point or be forced / coerced into the subscription model or you are going to allow them to co-exist fairly. I understand this must be difficult and if Props keep to their word then we will all live happily ever after but I can't help but be skeptical about it, who knows in 3 or 4 or 5 years maybe they will just say f*ck it and go full subscription with all of us loyal existing stand a lone users being upset as a small and almost unnoticeable side effect.

I can't see RS reversing their decision here, but then again stranger things have happened.

It was refreshing to see that internet magazine thingy of yours 'ars TECHNICA' not have kind words about subscription models especially for existing 'buying' customers. I thought we were the odd ones out here as apparently the entire would is embracing and just adoring the new subscription model that allows companies to make money over and over and over without giving ownership of a product compared to what we are used to, could we really be so wrong when the latter seems so right?

[Jagwah]

...I'm still using Reason 10...

...The DAW in itself is pretty close to perfection for me, and on that side, there are scant few things that might interest me to the tune of $200. On the current road map, there are none at all.

I'm also on Reason 10 and very content. Somebody the other day mentioned they are also.

I feel in my case and perhaps others in similar positions, we have matured as musicians and do not need shiny new visuals, or really cool new devices that bring about new ways of sampling / doing things that we don't already have much interest in. Knowing there is a high definition version out there of our tool that we have been using in standard definition the entire time, and knowing now it has new products in house that could be fun but do not particularly interest us, does not change even slightly the enjoyment and productivity we get from our tool.

[jam-s]

The KONG Drum Designer [...]
On the back side, you have outputs per pad, so you can route each individual sound through its completely own chain of devices.

No you don't have those and that's one of the major design flaws of Kong which would be easy to correct.

@RS: Pleas just add 16 direct stereo outputs (one for each pad) to the back of Kong and you'll make a lot of users happy. Looks like a low hanging fruit to me.

[tiker01]

...I'm still using Reason 10...

...The DAW in itself is pretty close to perfection for me, and on that side, there are scant few things that might interest me to the tune of $200. On the current road map, there are none at all.

I'm also on Reason 10 and very content. Somebody the other day mentioned they are also.

I feel in my case and perhaps others in similar positions, we have matured as musicians and do not need shiny new visuals, or really cool new devices that bring about new ways of sampling / doing things that we don't already have much interest in. Knowing there is a high definition version out there of our tool that we have been using in standard definition the entire time, and knowing now it has new products in house that could be fun but do not particularly interest us, does not change even slightly the enjoyment and productivity we get from our tool.

If I would Readons product manager I would ask what would make you consider upgrading?

BTW multi lane editing can be useful, though the UX is a bit meh ATM.

BTW nothing wrong with R10, still I would get the upgrade for 12 while it is 129$.

[PhillipOrdonez]

The KONG Drum Designer [...]
On the back side, you have outputs per pad, so you can route each individual sound through its completely own chain of devices.

No you don't have those and that's one of the major design flaws of Kong which would be easy to correct.

@RS: Pleas just add 16 direct stereo outputs (one for each pad) to the back of Kong and you'll make a lot of users happy. Looks like a low hanging fruit to me.

You can still route each pad individually though... Sure it will be easier if they added the 16 outputs but it can be done.

[AttenuationHz]

I understand bringing the price for the full version from 399 to 499, but I think upgrading from previous versions shouldn't be 199. I think this puts reason among the most expensive to upgrade from previous versions, along with ableton.

This puts them at a higher price point in the competitive landscape. I think they know the diehard users who buy outright will buy even at these prices (I know I will ), and this also makes their subscription model more valuable and thus more appealing. smart business moves but unfortunately at the expense of users like me. I'm so invested into Reason (with RE's and everything) that they know they have me by the balls.

Nobody has you by the balls you have choices. I won't be upgrading at $199, doesn't matter what is in a new version It will be skipped. I will however consider upgrading at a smaller increase $159.

How about anyone else who thinks $199 is "way too much" in the thread does it make sense to upgrade for each release?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7524789

[AnotherMathias]

Clearly people are very unhappy with Reason Studios at the moment Perhaps what they need to do to regain some goodwill from their customers is to give Reason 12 users something really nice for free.

It's not enough to promise us that they will eventually finished what they've promised, and perhaps one or two more features. That was assumed from the start. Added transparency is a nice change, but again, clearly not enough to appease the angry villagers.

For PROPER damage control, how about giving us, as a standard v12 feature, some of your older REs? Algoritm or Friktion would be nice, but they are probably too new. Parsec 2 comes to mind. Or Complex-1. Or maybe a whole batch of the things that aren't very popular, like Layers AND Scenic AND Polar.
And for the people who already paid for and own these, a coupon for something else of similar value.

It wouldn't give us the features that we've been begging for for years, and sure, it's a bit of lost revenue for you on those products, but hey, that would at least show us that you care about your users.

[Oper-8]

Agreed. I was actually expecting Algoritm and Pattern Mutator to be included with Reason 12, at least to justify a bit more charging full price for half an upgrade.
Since they seem to love their poor, empty Reward Store, they should include all devices in it and offer 75 Reward Points to everyone, so we could pick what we want.
*That* would be the cool old-school Props we used to know, instead of the sad, dull greedy company it has become.

[joeyluck]

Interesting because people were upset before when they included previously released instruments. Many people either said it was unoriginal and/or they were upset because they had just bought them. Understandably, they seemed to have moved away from that, at least for now. And Friktion and Pattern Mutator are much too new anyways to be included. Now we have R+, and I don't see them looking to lessen the value of that.

[WasteLand]

perhaps it asked before, in this thread, but i can't remember the sale percentages Reason uses, in one sale i bought the upgrade (or update? ....) to 11 Suite. from Reason 10 by the way.

so, it also depends, with the deadline, what will be the sale price. 30% will be $139/€139... were there any 40% sales?

(my opinion about the new price is as usual, how one dwells, but still... in sale it won't be that cheap anymore, but at least you can postpone, when all is settled or wait for Reason 13, that adds, for example MPE, don't know it... but it is an example. because i want to buy one version more, and will happily use it for years.)

[bxbrkrz]

To include some REs for "free" does not make the R12 ride any smoother. Reason is not a buggy game in need of free DLC so we can forget its core functionality.
After binge-watching many many videos I came to the conclusion that I can upgrade my R11 Suite sequencer for a rock solid one with all we've ever asked for years included.
For $60.

[fullforce]

No you don't have those and that's one of the major design flaws of Kong which would be easy to correct.

@RS: Pleas just add 16 direct stereo outputs (one for each pad) to the back of Kong and you'll make a lot of users happy. Looks like a low hanging fruit to me.

You can still route each pad individually though... Sure it will be easier if they added the 16 outputs but it can be done.

Yeah and then you load another kit or patch and boom there goes your routing.

[guitfnky]

You can still route each pad individually though... Sure it will be easier if they added the 16 outputs but it can be done.

Yeah and then you load another kit or patch and boom there goes your routing.

so? order of operations. get your kit squared away, then do your routing. you can still replace/edit individual pieces if you need to.

[kitekrazy]

It's the sort of thing a company can not go back on once it's been put out there

It happens all the time.
Just one example: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/202 ... f-devices/

I guess people forgot when there was an audio version of Reason that was used by those who had Line 6 stuff and eventually the outrage by Line 6 users, Props had a pay what you want for Reason for those Line 6 users.

[kitekrazy]

So as the poll stands now about 12% of users are (sort of) OK with the new price, but 88% (!!!) is NOT.
The CEO and board of directors might be wise to have another think about this move.

It's the sort of thing a company can not go back on once it's been put out there. I can only hope the upgrades of the future are going to be much bigger, I would gladly pay it in that case but as far as Reason 12 and the roadmap of promises is concerned, it's not that much bigger than a usual upgrade and it's a US $200 upgrade in a few weeks.

Sales are often extended.

[avasopht]

I guess people forgot when there was an audio version of Reason that was used by those who had Line 6 stuff and eventually the outrage by Line 6 users, Props had a pay what you want for Reason for those Line 6 users.

No. The pay what you want was for all Reason users and was a promo for Reason 6, which introduced Rack Extensions.

They didn't backtrack on Line 6. That was announced shortly after Line 6 was purchased, so it's most likely that the new owners wanted different terms (or no arrangement at all) given it happened shortly afterwards. Continued Line 6 support would have required Line 6 participation.

So it had nothing to do with Line 6, and everything to do with bringing Reason users up to date to make the Prop Shop more valuable.

To make up for the loss of Line 6 they brought in the Kuassa amps.

[tc13]

I guess people forgot when there was an audio version of Reason that was used by those who had Line 6 stuff and eventually the outrage by Line 6 users, Props had a pay what you want for Reason for those Line 6 users.

The pay what you want was for all Reason users and was a promo for Reason 6, which introduced Rack Extensions.

Not exactly for all Reason users, wasn't it so that you had to have Record as well?

From the release of Reason 6

"The Pay What You Want offer for the Reason 6 upgrade is extended to all registered owners of both Record and Reason (Duo) with a Propellerhead Ignition Key. The promotion starts upon Reason 6’s release on September 30 and goes through October 31, 2011...
Reason 6 will be available for purchase on September 30, 2011 at the following suggested retail pricing:

Reason 6 EUR €405 / USD $449

Reason 6 Upgrade (from any Reason version and Reason Essentials) EUR €149 / USD $169

Reason 6 Upgrade from Record-Reason Duo before October 31, 2011 Pay What You Want (starting at €1.00 / $1.00)"

Btw, I bought Reason from you in 2010

[avasopht]

Btw, I bought Reason from you in 2010

Aah, totally forgot about that.

And I forgot it was only for R+R.

Still, the PWYW was all about getting more people onto the Prop Shop and buying REs.

IIRC Reason 6 basically added REs while consolidating Reason and Record and getting us all to vote on what features we wanted most while buying the upgrade.

[andyhsong]

I understand bringing the price for the full version from 399 to 499, but I think upgrading from previous versions shouldn't be 199. I think this puts reason among the most expensive to upgrade from previous versions, along with ableton.

This puts them at a higher price point in the competitive landscape. I think they know the diehard users who buy outright will buy even at these prices (I know I will ), and this also makes their subscription model more valuable and thus more appealing. smart business moves but unfortunately at the expense of users like me. I'm so invested into Reason (with RE's and everything) that they know they have me by the balls.

Nobody has you by the balls you have choices. I won't be upgrading at $199, doesn't matter what is in a new version It will be skipped. I will however consider upgrading at a smaller increase $159.

How about anyone else who thinks $199 is "way too much" in the thread does it make sense to upgrade for each release?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7524789

yes of course i have a choice. but at this point im so invested into reason that i am going to choose to buy every time, lol. its absolutely my fault, its like i cant leave an abusive relationship

[Melody303]

Btw, I bought Reason from you in 2010

Aah, totally forgot about that.

And I forgot it was only for R+R.

Still, the PWYW was all about getting more people onto the Prop Shop and buying REs.

IIRC Reason 6 basically added REs while consolidating Reason and Record and getting us all to vote on what features we wanted most while buying the upgrade.

Almost.
PWYW was for Reason 6. Rack Extensions came in Reason 6.5 (which was a free upgrade if I remember correctly).
PWYW also included market research, in that you were asked how you are dividing the value of the price you named; Which features are you paying how much for.

[Mistro17]

I was just thinking maybe RS shot themselves in the foot with price hikes regarding new Reason+ users. One of the good things about Reason+ is it gives new users an affordable "try before you buy" kinda thing. I can see people starting to like Reason so much that they decide to buy a perpetual license. But now buying a full Reason license got $100 harder. It would've been a good idea to keep the intro lite versions too. I believe this is why Reaper is so popular besides the features it have. The easier it is to get access to a product, the better chances of more people using it.

[nooomy]

I was just thinking maybe RS shot themselves in the foot with price hikes regarding new Reason+ users. One of the good things about Reason+ is it gives new users an affordable "try before you buy" kinda thing. I can see people starting to like Reason so much that they decide to buy a perpetual license. But now buying a full Reason license got $100 harder. It would've been a good idea to keep the intro lite versions too. I believe this is why Reaper is so popular besides the features it have. The easier it is to get access to a product, the better chances of more people using it.

They are owned by private equity fund Verdane Capital IX.

They will maximise profit and squeeze they money out of us.

I said it when they were sold to verdane that we would see these typ of things.

This is just the beginning. They will find more ways to get our cash.