Reason and Huge Track Counts

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Benedict
Posts: 2521
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Post 15 Sep 2021

This isn't making Reason crash, just not actually work "fit for purpose". They could even dubiously claim it is working perfectly seeing the Disc indicator lights up. I would debate that tho based on marketing Unlimited Track Counts (until your CPU or Drive chokes) seeing both are still in the game*

I have sent another please respond to RS. I don't like doing it but I also don't like being ignored or made to look unprofessional by software that claims to be Pro, especially after all the championing I have done for them over the decades - and even right now as their software is not exactly helping me make music (let alone income).

*as proved by the files working fine in a new project with no extra work done and in Harrison Mixbunk.

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Benedict
Posts: 2521
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Post 15 Sep 2021

Mr Fixr

I ran the Save & Optimize (which I assume to have the same essential function) on today's 1hr podcast after watching file size climb over 15 mins of editing and it dropped right back to essentially the size of the single mono audio file at 628MB It was over 1.8GB!

Maybe this can work too in a multitrack mix???

:-)

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Benedict
Posts: 2521
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Post 04 Oct 2021

This is new

I loaded a Song (about 40 tracks) already mixed for a Mastering ReGig and it took a while for the audio track waveforms to start ot populate. then the Calc pie started. The track seems to play tho... which is something.

Image

:-)

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thefixr
Posts: 100
Joined: 30 Jan 2015

Post 04 Oct 2021

Benedict wrote:
15 Sep 2021
Mr Fixr

I ran the Save & Optimize (which I assume to have the same essential function) on today's 1hr podcast after watching file size climb over 15 mins of editing and it dropped right back to essentially the size of the single mono audio file at 628MB It was over 1.8GB!

Maybe this can work too in a multitrack mix???

:-)
I don’t see why it wouldn’t. It’s a great way to keep things slim and trim.
YouTube.com/iamthefixr

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Benedict
Posts: 2521
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Post 04 Oct 2021

Sadly once "the issue" has occurred, things like Save & Optimate don't work anymore, will even hang entirely.
Save and Oviate is proving very good for the podcast thing tho so thanks for the reminder on that process (the right-click Remove Doubles is always greyed out - probably I have learned not to duplicate randomly).

This is the issue. IT IS BROKEN.

Further, the Calc pie has been running all morning whilst doing nothing but making patches with one Thor and one Mimic in the game (after a new Reason start)

Yep, BROKEN.

:-)

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mcatalao
Posts: 1547
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 05 Oct 2021

Sometime ago I did tests with my rig in reason 10 and I could run up to 400 mono tracks with the ssl dynamics and eq on in a fairly humble system. However these were copies and reason would just point to the same file in the project /hdd.

At that track count I'd start by selecting all tracks and disable stretch as it might be a big bottleneck there and reason has no need to calculate stuff on solely mixing projects. So as soon as you import your audio disable time stretch in all clips and save the project.

Then there's the disk speed issue though if my math is correct any ssd above the 200MB/s practical value is enough for even a 200 track count project. At 120 track even at 96kHz you are way under 100 MB/s and you should be Allright with this. However if you're creating your project in the same drive as the scratchpad is and you have reason calculating stuff I wouldn't bet if things would be stable a while these tasks are on.

At recording my rig can do 36 track and I can do some more real tests with real files but I'm inclined to say without any effects at all reason should not have either a bottleneck from a ssd or be the bottleneck itself.

Now to dismistify stuff, reason does load a bit of ram for each channel. But this is expected at any daw it must load some working ram for the audio buffer to get filled, transformed by any amount of plugs you have and then fed to the audio card. But this is pretty standard in any daw, with the difference that in reason you have no control over the amount of ram you give to each channel. For example Cubase's older versions allowed you to define this. However the amount of ram it loads for audio is nothing compared to the size of the file you create in reason. Reason opens with 400 to 700 MB ram wich is staggering compared to other daws but the increase in ram from audio files is small and the audio is not loaded fully to ram. Not to confuse with samples wich are a different matter. Reason samplers do load everything into ram whereas other samplers can load a working amount and stream from hdd. Again the better and faster the hdd/ssd more reliable and stable the process will be.

Graphics might be an important issue too. This is the point where you shouldn't disregard the props advices and I remember a pretty obscure chapter in the manual about performance that advised to fold (close) all devices in the rack. It's fairly easy to do that, just hit one of the devices fold button with alt pressed.

Finally, I have a little difficulty grasping the idea of a 120 track project. Most of my bigger projects are 50 to 60 tracks and that's a stretch with dubs and stuff like that.

Hope this helps a bit!
Good luck.

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Benedict
Posts: 2521
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

Post 06 Oct 2021

Interesting: One track duplicated 300 times is probably a very different application load than 126 unique tracks. if it were a bottleneck, it would likely unclog itself after some time. Also, performance would degrade across some sort of curve, even if it was a bit brutal.

This is:
a) File works, then too many more (unique) tracks and it won't at all, or
b) One minute it works dandy with all the tracks, the next the project is irrevocably broken.

That screams memory leak or similar issue.

It is that RS seems deliberately not to want to address this that annoys me most. If they said, yes the system we employ to give you all the cool things you love is great until X that would be fine with me. It is probably a fair trade if I understand.

As for 120+ tracks in a project. It is a lot for Rock, but his fellow likes to have lots of texture. In this particular track we are essentially creating a Pirates Of The Caribbean type scene with a little orchestra and lots of sound effects to back his many many layers of vocals to greater gangs and choirs. It is always worth it in the end. This is a lesser track count song but still way above average:


:-)

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