POLL: VST3 or QOL Priority? What would you have rather seen first?

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What would you have rather seen first?

Poll ended at 14 Sep 2021

1 - VST 3 Please!
23
19%
2 - I'm good with VST 2.4 for now. Give me some Quality of Life workflow enhancements - Track Folders, Midi Comp/New Lane/Markers/Freeze etc first!
99
81%
 
Total votes: 122
npinero1
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Post 08 Sep 2021

IMHO: both would be nice. but I am leaning towards VST3 support.
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stratatonic
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Post 09 Sep 2021

DaveyG wrote:
08 Sep 2021
stratatonic wrote:
08 Sep 2021

I was just giving examples of QOL, in case it wasn't totally clear. It's simple (though I maybe could have worded the poll question slightly differently and asked "what would you rather have seen first?")
Maybe I still can - without changing out the poll numbers.
It's like saying "Do you want Ford to offer a 2 litre engine option or do you want improvements to the driving experience?" One is specific, the other is vague. One person might imagine the latter means sports suspension and racing seats, another might think about a better turning circle and an iPhone interface.
Oh! It's another let's compare a car with a DAW analogy again! :D
It's more like, VST2.4 is regular filament headlights and VST3 are LED
What would you rather have first? LED lights or some QOL enhancements to your ReasonMobile, like:
Mirrors - so you don't have to keep turning your head backwards
Brakelights - so you don't have to start slowing down kilometres ahead in fear of getting rammed from behind
Door Handles - so you don't have to leave the window open all the time and reach inside to open the door

The ReasonMobile will still get you from point A to B, but better to have those few simple QOL enhancements for a better all-round driving experience than to get the newer LED headlights. More so if you don't even drive at night...

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stratatonic
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Post 09 Sep 2021

Creativemind wrote:
08 Sep 2021
R303 wrote:
08 Sep 2021
VST 3 was released in 2008, so it’s already overdue.
But joining midi notes, note displays and midi chase even older. ;)
Under investigation, bro :lol:

----

Looks like the poll numbers show 93% to 7% for QOL improvements once you take out Reason Studio employees and joeylukc's vote out of the equation... :D

ShawnG
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Post 09 Sep 2021

Thing is “Qol improvements” is a vague umbrella term that most people would want something therein, and vst3 is a specific thing. Pick one specific Qol thing and run it against vst3 and see what happens.

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arqui
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Post 09 Sep 2021

fix all the problems of this version first, then add whatever you want ...
If the boat has holes and you keep filling it, it will sink faster ...
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gullum
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Post 09 Sep 2021

ShawnG wrote:
09 Sep 2021
Thing is “Qol improvements” is a vague umbrella term that most people would want something therein, and vst3 is a specific thing. Pick one specific Qol thing and run it against vst3 and see what happens.
In my case that specific QOL future will win because I do not use VST ever therefor even VST3 is individual so if the pool said VST3 yes or no? I would just vote no

deeplink
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Post 09 Sep 2021

I guess OP has addressed a contraversial argument. To which I would rather see RS start from ground zero and work their way up.

I don't see VST3 as critical, but that's coming from a place of not really using VSTs in the first place. This poll proves that some think differently.

Regardless, VST3 sounds like a major endeavour. Where as small things like adding numbers to the rack mix channel seems like quite a simple fix. Or peak metering for mix channels for that matter.

RS needs to keep up with the competition, in their fun and inspiring way. Right now, from chatting to my peers, is that people get into something for the aspiration of it - being a serious endeavour in their lives. In that way, software that limits it's capability only serves to limit the user.

I believe RS needs to - somehow - cater towards the more practical and technical side involved in this craft. Not just the newcomer.

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Despondo
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Post 09 Sep 2021

I'm already using VST3 in Reason since I also own Patchwork, Unify, Element, Voltage Modular, etc. which all allow hosting VST3s in Reason.

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Faastwalker
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Post 11 Sep 2021

Jackjackdaw wrote:
08 Sep 2021
The VST 3 work has probably been mostly done already if they are so confident about when it's coming. So it's kind of a moot point. But yeah the other stuff would be better on balance.
I thought the same. I voted 2 because I want those things. I don't use many VST's at al. But there are one or two I'd like which are VST 3 only. It needs to be there in 2021 I think.

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Arrant
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Post 12 Sep 2021

Even though some of you don't use VSTs you should consider the importance of this feature for meeting the expectations of potential new customers. Without it, many people will not even consider Reason becasue of lacking VST support. In fact, they will laugh at it and say "they can't be serious".
As mentioned by others, the poll is flawed and useless though.

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gullum
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Post 12 Sep 2021

Arrant wrote:
12 Sep 2021
Even though some of you don't use VSTs you should consider the importance of this feature for meeting the expectations of potential new customers. Without it, many people will not even consider Reason because of lacking VST support. In fact, they will laugh at it and say "they can't be serious".
As mentioned by others, the poll is flawed and useless though.
even if that means I won't get want I want? I'm being selfish here but think about it why should it be important to me that RS gets new customers at the expanse of me not getting futures I will use?
Sure you'd say more customers more money to develop the software, but wouldn't that at the same time bring more people with different wish lists?
I'm all for more customers anyway because it guaranties that I can use reason in many years from now, but more users won't guaranty I'll get any workflow futures for me.

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StephenHutchinson
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Post 12 Sep 2021

Well since in the past few days, the vast majority of my VSTs (instrument and effects) no longer load in reason and in fact hang Reason, I went with QOL. This is on my MacBook Air which had been running smoothly as of the official release but now has made using Reason 12 on my preferred platform a no go. Thankfully I do have a killer PC which does load most VSTs but there are some that also hang.

For any serious work, like many people here seem to be doing, I'm going to have to resort to going back to Reason 11 or RRP inside of Bitwig 4, until all this is worked out. I guess I can gas up R12 if I want to play with Mimic but at this point, probably better to just wait till the bug fixes are in.
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exxx
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Post 12 Sep 2021

How sad this?

vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.

Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...

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gullum
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Post 13 Sep 2021

exxx wrote:
12 Sep 2021
How sad this?

vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.

Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...
but some of these features you say should have come with 12 are said to be so basic that they should have been added in Reason 6

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joeyluck
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Post 13 Sep 2021

exxx wrote:
12 Sep 2021
How sad this?

vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.

Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...
VST3 was introduced in 2008.
Ableton Live was introduced 2001.
Live didn't add VST3 support until 2019.
So it took them roughly 11 years to add VST3 support while being a VST host.

I don't know the story with other DAWs, but Reason only adopted VST a few years ago.

And while others argue they'd rather continue to put VST3 support on the back burner, I disagree and say, bring it on please! 🙂

exxx
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Post 13 Sep 2021

joeyluck wrote:
13 Sep 2021
exxx wrote:
12 Sep 2021
How sad this?

vst3 is arguably the basis of modern daws. It's a feature they should have already created in order to run a daw business.

Begging between a feature that should have already been included in reason 11 and a feature that should have come out with the release of reason 12...

VST3 was introduced in 2008.
Ableton Live was introduced 2001.
Live didn't add VST3 support until 2019.
So it took them roughly 11 years to add VST3 support while being a VST host.

I don't know the story with other DAWs, but Reason only adopted VST a few years ago.

And while others argue they'd rather continue to put VST3 support on the back burner, I disagree and say, bring it on please! 🙂
That's an inappropriate explanation.

If you're a Reason's employee, I can understand.

From around 2019 and 2020, VST3 has been expanded in earnest, and many DAWs also support MPE. Don't you know when a particular technology will expand to the market at some point? Even Reason Rack came out in vst3

Several VSTs around that time were only available as VST3. why? It is now an environment that the DAWs in the market will accept. It was recognized as a basic feature of a common DAW.

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Loque
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Post 13 Sep 2021

exxx wrote:
13 Sep 2021
joeyluck wrote:
13 Sep 2021


VST3 was introduced in 2008.
Ableton Live was introduced 2001.
Live didn't add VST3 support until 2019.
So it took them roughly 11 years to add VST3 support while being a VST host.

I don't know the story with other DAWs, but Reason only adopted VST a few years ago.

And while others argue they'd rather continue to put VST3 support on the back burner, I disagree and say, bring it on please! 🙂
That's an inappropriate explanation.

If you're a Reason's employee, I can understand.

From around 2019 and 2020, VST3 has been expanded in earnest, and many DAWs also support MPE. Don't you know when a particular technology will expand to the market at some point? Even Reason Rack came out in vst3

Several VSTs around that time were only available as VST3. why? It is now an environment that the DAWs in the market will accept. It was recognized as a basic feature of a common DAW.
The reality and facts are sometimes a bit different, than you might think.

The VST implementation in Reason was quite old, and at the time of release just added to the code and introduced a lot of problems which required a rewrite of the audio engine. The result took some time and finally the audio processing for VSTs was as fast as in other DAWs and even RE were up to 30% faster. So in fact, the code for VST in Reason was not new.

VST2 was deprecated and it was disallowed to create new plugins using this API. All new plugins MUST use VST3, that is why the RRP was released ONLY as VST3.

And creating a plugin in VST3 is still something different that creating support for that format in a DAW. Its the complete opposite and probably requires a lot of adjustments in the audio engine again.

What might be a simple task for you, can be a big task for the developers. Its like you say "its easy to build just the house", but in reality you need to build all tools, create infrastructure, educate ppl, create vehicles, you need suppliers, and so on...
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Popey
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Post 13 Sep 2021

As vst 3 is already on the roadmap I hope they also add vst2 midi at the same time. It would be good for users to have full vst implementation. Reason can then concentrate on the many qol suggestions in the roadmap thread. Considering January is the date I am assuming they are well on the way with this.

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Creativemind
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Post 13 Sep 2021

They've already stated they're working on vst 3 so I don't understand the question lol!

I would prefer QOL things first but both would be ideal. As someone stated before, they should've started working on vst 3 as soon as they released vst. Sounds logical to me. 9.5 with vst support was released in May 2017 so if it took a year it would've been May 2018. I do recall though, there was an optimisation issue with vst at the beginning which took a good 6 months to iron out so that got in the way but vst 3 should've certainly been in the Reason 10 cycle.
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exxx
Posts: 148
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Post 13 Sep 2021

Loque wrote:
13 Sep 2021
exxx wrote:
13 Sep 2021


That's an inappropriate explanation.

If you're a Reason's employee, I can understand.

From around 2019 and 2020, VST3 has been expanded in earnest, and many DAWs also support MPE. Don't you know when a particular technology will expand to the market at some point? Even Reason Rack came out in vst3

Several VSTs around that time were only available as VST3. why? It is now an environment that the DAWs in the market will accept. It was recognized as a basic feature of a common DAW.
The reality and facts are sometimes a bit different, than you might think.

The VST implementation in Reason was quite old, and at the time of release just added to the code and introduced a lot of problems which required a rewrite of the audio engine. The result took some time and finally the audio processing for VSTs was as fast as in other DAWs and even RE were up to 30% faster. So in fact, the code for VST in Reason was not new.

VST2 was deprecated and it was disallowed to create new plugins using this API. All new plugins MUST use VST3, that is why the RRP was released ONLY as VST3.

And creating a plugin in VST3 is still something different that creating support for that format in a DAW. Its the complete opposite and probably requires a lot of adjustments in the audio engine again.

What might be a simple task for you, can be a big task for the developers. Its like you say "its easy to build just the house", but in reality you need to build all tools, create infrastructure, educate ppl, create vehicles, you need suppliers, and so on...
Of course it will be different. But you are a consumer. I am a little puzzled that I feel the need to sympathize and advocate for DAW development.

If you sympathize with and worry about the difficulties of other consumer goods businesses, it might be understood as your inclination.

I am also a professional in a field other than other music.

But I do not pass on the complexity of my job to the consumer.

Because that's my job and it's something I need to be good at.

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joeyluck
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Post 13 Sep 2021

exxx wrote:
13 Sep 2021
Loque wrote:
13 Sep 2021

The reality and facts are sometimes a bit different, than you might think.

The VST implementation in Reason was quite old, and at the time of release just added to the code and introduced a lot of problems which required a rewrite of the audio engine. The result took some time and finally the audio processing for VSTs was as fast as in other DAWs and even RE were up to 30% faster. So in fact, the code for VST in Reason was not new.

VST2 was deprecated and it was disallowed to create new plugins using this API. All new plugins MUST use VST3, that is why the RRP was released ONLY as VST3.

And creating a plugin in VST3 is still something different that creating support for that format in a DAW. Its the complete opposite and probably requires a lot of adjustments in the audio engine again.

What might be a simple task for you, can be a big task for the developers. Its like you say "its easy to build just the house", but in reality you need to build all tools, create infrastructure, educate ppl, create vehicles, you need suppliers, and so on...
Of course it will be different. But you are a consumer. I am a little puzzled that I feel the need to sympathize and advocate for DAW development.

If you sympathize with and worry about the difficulties of other consumer goods businesses, it might be understood as your inclination.

I am also a professional in a field other than other music.

But I do not pass on the complexity of my job to the consumer.

Because that's my job and it's something I need to be good at.
It was just an explanation as to why it takes time. Ableton took 11 years between VST3 being released and them adding VST3 support, all while being a VST host the entire time. If RS makes it in under 11 years from their introduction of VST support, they're good 😂

I guess I should add that Ableton had about 7 years experience with the VST format before the introduction of VST3 before they then took 11 years after that to add support for it.

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QVprod
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Post 13 Sep 2021

Think I'm in the minority, but I'd equate VST3 to be QOL. It's not really a feature but rather an improvement.

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tiker01
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Post 14 Sep 2021

I think it both are necessary and can be developed in parallel. Small improvements are something the Dev team can work on besides the introduction of VST3 support.
    
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guitfnky
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Post 14 Sep 2021

QVprod wrote:
13 Sep 2021
Think I'm in the minority, but I'd equate VST3 to be QOL. It's not really a feature but rather an improvement.
more like a necessity, if they want to keep having a DAW. so, good news in that sense, I guess.
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adfielding
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Post 14 Sep 2021

QVprod wrote:
13 Sep 2021
Think I'm in the minority, but I'd equate VST3 to be QOL. It's not really a feature but rather an improvement.
Ditto. I'd take other QoL improvements over VST3 support for purely selfish reasons - but VST3 support is only going to become a larger issue as time goes by, so I totally understand the drive to get it in there now.

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