Why R12 has got me a little worried ...

[avasopht]

It's probably best to just think of Suite as a license that includes R11 and the Rack Extensions.

If you already have the rack extension, that re license remains on your account when transferring r11 suite because the r11 suite license is just one license that enables the devices (unlike rack extensions that come with upgrades, as those licenses are separate).

Maybe that's what was meant

[Social Exodus]

For me, I'm just pissed that subscription models seems to be where things are headed in many software offerings. Microsoft Office. Photoshop/Lightroom. These just as examples of the trend being elsewhere. As a result, at least for me is that I use Google's Office suite, and Paint Shop Pro and now Reason 11 Suite. I thought the suite offering was a super great deal and so I bought it. I sort of expected that RS would continue to offer "suites" as options for an increased price.

It's hard to describe how disappointed I was with the announcement of R+. I gave it a shot, but it was half hearted and I knew it wouldn't stick. This idea that you pay year over year and if you hit a snag in your life and have to give it up, you lose everything is IMHO just a crazy way to go. The software I own is mine, no strings attached.

So it is for this reason (Ha!) I'm concerned with his new direction.

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

Honestly, I think they should offer a Reason 12 Suite option for people who prefer perpetual licensing. It takes nothing away from R+ and allows for R11 Suite people to feel like a premium upgrade option is viable. I would buy it in a heartbeat. I think phasing it out was mistake.

[joeyluck]

I think there might just be confusion here for some between Suite 11 REs being available to an account (e.g. being able to use them in R10 or R12) and transferring with the sale of a Suite 11 license.

I’m certainly not confused Joe.
I said:
“If you upgrade you’ll keep all your REs from suite.
If you decide in the future to sell your Reason License, whatever version you’re on, you’ll lose all your Suite REs.”

Manequinraces replied
“This is false. You will not lose your Suite REs.”

My statement however wasn’t false as Supersplaron confirmed in the post I linked.

“THIS IS FALSE!!!!!” Hahahahahaha. Excellent.

Wasn't saying you were confused, but that others were, possibly misinterpreting or misreading.

[MrFigg]

I’m certainly not confused Joe.
I said:
“If you upgrade you’ll keep all your REs from suite.
If you decide in the future to sell your Reason License, whatever version you’re on, you’ll lose all your Suite REs.”

Manequinraces replied
“This is false. You will not lose your Suite REs.”

My statement however wasn’t false as Supersplaron confirmed in the post I linked.

“THIS IS FALSE!!!!!” Hahahahahaha. Excellent.

Wasn't saying you were confused, but that others were, possibly misinterpreting or misreading.

I know . Was just confirming.

[MannequinRaces]

This is false. You will not lose your Suite REs.

Supersplaron a little down the page in this post confirms that if you sell your Suite license then the REs are transferred with it. I’m guessing he knows. Right?
viewtopic.php?t=7518189

This is news to me. Last I heard there was a thread from 2019 where RS support said that they don’t transfer with the Suite license. The current support web page for selling Reason licenses even mentions that REs stay with the account, not the license. What a mess.

[MrFigg]

Supersplaron a little down the page in this post confirms that if you sell your Suite license then the REs are transferred with it. I’m guessing he knows. Right?
viewtopic.php?t=7518189

This is news to me. Last I heard there was a thread from 2019 where RS support said that they don’t transfer with the Suite license. The current support web page for selling Reason licenses even mentions that REs stay with the account, not the license. What a mess.

I think that means that if you have a Reason License and sell it then your paid for REs remain on your account. i.e. you can’t sell REs.
Reason Suite however is a package and the license transfers as such.

[PhillipOrdonez]

This is news to me. Last I heard there was a thread from 2019 where RS support said that they don’t transfer with the Suite license. The current support web page for selling Reason licenses even mentions that REs stay with the account, not the license. What a mess.

I think that means that if you have a Reason License and sell it then your paid for REs remain on your account. i.e. you can’t sell REs.
Reason Suite however is a package and the license transfers as such.

I think I know the answer, but let's get it confirmed.

I bought radical keys myself, and then bought suite, which I now sell to somebody. I know radical keys remain in my account, but will they also get radical keys? Logic says yes, of course, but is it so?

[MrFigg]

I think that means that if you have a Reason License and sell it then your paid for REs remain on your account. i.e. you can’t sell REs.
Reason Suite however is a package and the license transfers as such.

I think I know the answer, but let's get it confirmed.

I bought radical keys myself, and then bought suite, which I now sell to somebody. I know radical keys remain in my account, but will they also get radical keys? Logic says yes, of course, but is it so?

I asked that in another thread ages ago about Rad Piano. Never got an answer.
Radical Keys is crap so doesn’t matter anyway hahaha.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Doesn't matter which re it is, that was just a placeholder. OTOH, radical keys is cool. 🤨

[avasopht]

The price hike has confirmed my suspicions.

Whoever is making these decisions is very tone-deaf.

The R12 roadmap shows that if they had released it when it was ready, it would have been much better received:
1. VST3 support
2. Complete high-res support
3. More stable
4. Actually completed
5. Rex support in Mimic

In fact, had they just communicated that BEFORE. Instead, they chose to make out that it was a complete release.

Some people PAID for an unfinished product presented as if it was finished.

You do not do that.

That was wrong. Unethical, even.

And then, after releasing an unfinished product, and while it is still unfinished, they announce a massive price increase.

This is baffling.

What exactly were they expecting?

Although they have said they're being more transparent, they haven't been. Being transparent after the fact is not transparency. When R12 was released. The weeks before when they had all the promos for buying R12 (such as the free upgrade if you purchase R11) they gave no indication that this was for an incomplete release and that they'd have to wait until November for it to be stable, and January for feature completion.

I salute their declaration of transparency going forward, and I'm sure it'll be peachy from now on.

But this transparency should have happened before the release (and all the promos urging people to buy based on their TRUST of the company). Their trust was betrayed.

Their complete disregard for whoever paid for R12 unawares, to then admit weeks later that it was not finished beggars belief.

That was not a fun preview to show people. It would have been if they'd said it before the fact, and it would have been very well received.

But they didn't do that. They sought to deceive customers.

And then while this is going on they announce a massive price increase. I've not even got a problem with the price (for me personally). But the timing seems very off. This is not the time to announce a price increase.

Maybe they plan to include more with this release. But still, whatever the reason this is poor communication.

I don't agree with how relentless some forum users have been with Reason Studios about the price increase or the R12 release but after their good move of sharing the roadmap, it really seems like someone in upper management is winging it and just trying random strategies from The Personal MBA and seeing what sticks.

That's why I've held off from upgrading. I'm really not too sure about RS. I like using it, but not with this type of mismanagement.

This is why I started this thread. I saw this sort of thing coming.

I'm sure they'll deliver with R12 eventually, but they've made a massive cock-up with this early release and price increase.

[Arrant]

Honestly, I think they should offer a Reason 12 Suite option for people who prefer perpetual licensing. It takes nothing away from R+ and allows for R11 Suite people to feel like a premium upgrade option is viable. I would buy it in a heartbeat. I think phasing it out was mistake.

I agree with this.
I'll also like to point out that for 11 Suite owners R+ offers particularly bad value since we already own most of the included devices.
Who wants to pay $20 a month for a slight update of the program (R12) and a few devices (Algorithm, Friktion, Pattern Mutator) - some or all of which many of us may have already bought?

[musicman691]

I wouldn't have known about the price increase if I hadn't been involved in a thread over on Gearspace (used to be Gearslutz). Got no email from RS on this. And I am on their email list with nothing in my isp's spam folder. Tone deaf indeed.

Let me add 2 items to avasopht's list:
6: actually fix the daw portion
7: host vst's when the rack is used in a daw

With this next comment I reading between the lines but now I think I know why they removed the ability to opt out of usage sharing - they need help in tracking down problems their development team hasn't been able to fix before R12 dropped. My reasoning is if R12 had been complete & finished on release we still would have the ability to opt out. I know this seems to be my personal hair shirt but still.....