Reason Studios shares their roadmap (September 7, 2021)

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moofi
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Just to give an impression of relations even though the numbers do not fit exactly.


EnochLight wrote:
13 Nov 2021
[...] Reaper is like a meager 14 MB program. [...]
Reason is over 2 GB of code (that's not including factory sound content like refills, etc).

[...]

avasopht
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Creativemind wrote:
11 Nov 2021
Eprom wrote:
11 Nov 2021
People asked for a meme... :twisted:

reason-meme.jpg
"of" course.

I see people have already pointed that out.

Reason back to really dragging their feet again it seems. End of October, it's almost mid November. When 2 guys code Reaper and have an update out every 20-30 days, I wonder what takes Reason Studio's so long?
WRONG. It's nothing to do with "dragging feet".

They're fixing an elusive bug after a massive GUI overhaul to utilise the GPU to make ultra high resolutions bearable with the graphically rich Reason Rack.

That will take as long as it takes.

How regular updates are is irrelevant. It tells you very little about productivity.

Besides, Reaper doesn't have anything like Reason's rack devices (or even a rack). It has nothing like audio pitch editor. It has no SDK to maintain. There is much less R&D on innovations. It's much more vanilla and behind the curve.

Its got far fewer moving parts.

Programmers typically make multiple updates per day. Then those updates get integrated with the work from other developers (this could be daily or weekly). Rounds of testing will be carried out.

Measuring productivity by frequency of releases, or number of features is a fool's errand. They tell you absolutely nothing at all about how much work has actually been done.

This is not a debatable thing either. You just don't understand why it isn't.

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Creativemind
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Post 14 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
13 Nov 2021
Creativemind wrote:
11 Nov 2021
When 2 guys code Reaper and have an update out every 20-30 days, I wonder what takes Reason Studio's so long?
I feel some clarity is required here - Reaper is a laughably simple program compared to Reason. I mean seriously - it's just a sequencer for the most part, no included instruments or effects on the level that Reason has. Reaper is like a meager 14 MB program. FOURTEEN MEGABYTES. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Reason is over 2 GB of code (that's not including factory sound content like refills, etc).

I'm fairly certain that has something to do with it... :thumbup:
Which is already coded, they're not recoding it so not sure the relevance. I understand why it took so long to update the graphics (big overhaul) but to add a new browser and Combinator styles, been waiting around 9 weeks or so. Yes, more to contend with than Reaper, granted but does take them ages.

Will it be a browser to blow us away after all this time too? I'm leaning towards it not being as I'm used to Reasons features being basic (the curved automation and crossfades as 2 examples.) I messaged them with a list of 20 browser feature's a few weeks ago, obviously don't expect all 20 to be added but fingers crossed for an audio wave display with loop and stuff, pitch shift and tempo detect and match / sync.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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Billy+
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Post 14 Nov 2021

jaeproduced wrote:
13 Nov 2021
Billy+ wrote:
13 Nov 2021
Yeah I did a few updates to the roadmap myself just to lend a hand

This was my first update
IMG_2870.PNG

This one was a bit more harsh
IMG_2873.PNG

But it's all in good fun

Besides I jumped ship after a couple of weeks with plus and after the roadmap was released and seeing that nothing was being added that I was remotely interested in
Jumped ship to what DAW I may ask?
Oh I haven't moved away from Reason I just ditched R12 sub and went back to R11, I've spent far too much money on Reason and rack extensions to not use it but I definitely don't need R12 especially given it was made clear that updates would be the way features got added I decided that I could just wait until they become available completed and stable rather than being constantly in a state of development and bug fixes being implemented and the way R11 just got abandoned with acknowledged bugs being left in.

Besides I'm not sure what R12 offers me even after the roadmap is completed, CMBv2 is about the only feature that is of interest but I can live without it.

I just hope that they are able to create a mostly bug free version at some point in the future that is worth upgrading to as this is currently the only version I haven't purchased.

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EnochLight
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Creativemind wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Which is already coded, they're not recoding it so not sure the relevance.
I'm not a dev, but from what I've been told when interacting with various devs, any sort of changes in code - especially if it's a core change that affects the operation of the entire program - absolutely involves some amount of re-coding. My point was to illustrate that Reaper is a far smaller, far "simpler" program than Reason. That absolutely takes time (and a lot more hands on deck) than updating Reaper every 30 days. It's no secret that Reason's shift to process graphics onto the GPU has been an entire re-write (it was alluded to in their blog posts), so I'd wager it's safe to say that a lot of code was recoded and absolutely relevant to the comparison.

I realize there are a lot of Reaper fans here and I've been known to dish on Reaper ;) :lol: , and the 2 dev team should be commended for what they've achieved with Reaper, for sure. But to compare Reaper's update frequency (that rarely, ever, changes any core functionality) and what is done with Reason just isn't realistic IMHO.
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Italophile
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Post 14 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
13 Nov 2021
I feel some clarity is required here - Reaper is a laughably simple program compared to Reason. I mean seriously - it's just a sequencer for the most part, no included instruments or effects on the level that Reason has. Reaper is like a meager 14 MB program. FOURTEEN MEGABYTES. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Reason is over 2 GB of code (that's not including factory sound content like refills, etc).

I'm fairly certain that has something to do with it... :thumbup:
Where are you getting the figure of 2GB from?

Reason is actually just a meager 43MB program.

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selig
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Italophile wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Where are you getting the figure of 2GB from?
Reason is actually just a meager 43MB program.
I'm not the OP, but I'm seeing the following file sizes:
Reason 8 177mb
Reason 9 268mb
Reason 10 384mb
Reason 11 396mb
Reason 12 77mb (?)

I'm not seeing either 44mb or 2GB as a file size for any version of Reason I have access to currently.
But the fact we are all seeing vastly different figures indicates there are (at least) a few unaccounted for variables here...
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Italophile
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Post 14 Nov 2021

selig wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Italophile wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Where are you getting the figure of 2GB from?
Reason is actually just a meager 43MB program.
I'm not the OP, but I'm seeing the following file sizes:
Reason 8 177mb
Reason 9 268mb
Reason 10 384mb
Reason 11 396mb
Reason 12 77mb (?)

I'm not seeing either 44mb or 2GB as a file size for any version of Reason I have access to currently.
But the fact we are all seeing vastly different figures indicates there are (at least) a few unaccounted for variables here...
That's because very little of those file sizes is code. Much of it is graphics.
The actual program files:
Reason
Screenshot 2021-11-14 165953.png
Reaper
Screenshot 2021-11-14 170446.png
As a developer I can assure you that if Reason's codebase really were 2GB it would run more slowly than a dog with no legs.

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artotaku
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Post 14 Nov 2021

selig wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Italophile wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Where are you getting the figure of 2GB from?
Reason is actually just a meager 43MB program.
I'm not the OP, but I'm seeing the following file sizes:
Reason 8 177mb
Reason 9 268mb
Reason 10 384mb
Reason 11 396mb
Reason 12 77mb (?)

I'm not seeing either 44mb or 2GB as a file size for any version of Reason I have access to currently.
But the fact we are all seeing vastly different figures indicates there are (at least) a few unaccounted for variables here...
I think what is often confused is the download file size and the installed files. The executable of R12 is ~45 MB + some 3rd party libraries. The big fishes are in C:\ProgramData\Propellerhead Software\SharedResources\Reason (Windows) where the built in (stock) Rack Extensions as well as a quite big resource file (rpcp, 738 MB) is located.

What we don´t know what the rpcp file contains, I assume mostly data (images, audio, for the native devices such as Thor, Subtractor etc). So the compiled core program code is in the 45 MB file and the program code of the individual embedded RS Rack Extensions is in ProgramData.

So in total the download file size is about 1,4 GB excluding Soundbanks and external content (Klang, Humana, etc).

kitekrazy
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Post 14 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
13 Nov 2021
Creativemind wrote:
11 Nov 2021
When 2 guys code Reaper and have an update out every 20-30 days, I wonder what takes Reason Studio's so long?
I feel some clarity is required here - Reaper is a laughably simple program compared to Reason. I mean seriously - it's just a sequencer for the most part, no included instruments or effects on the level that Reason has. Reaper is like a meager 14 MB program. FOURTEEN MEGABYTES. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Reason is over 2 GB of code (that's not including factory sound content like refills, etc).

I'm fairly certain that has something to do with it... :thumbup:
Ignorance abounds in this statement. The only thing you got right was Reaper's file size.

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Creativemind
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Post 14 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Creativemind wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Which is already coded, they're not recoding it so not sure the relevance.
I'm not a dev, but from what I've been told when interacting with various devs, any sort of changes in code - especially if it's a core change that affects the operation of the entire program - absolutely involves some amount of re-coding. My point was to illustrate that Reaper is a far smaller, far "simpler" program than Reason. That absolutely takes time (and a lot more hands on deck) than updating Reaper every 30 days. It's no secret that Reason's shift to process graphics onto the GPU has been an entire re-write (it was alluded to in their blog posts), so I'd wager it's safe to say that a lot of code was recoded and absolutely relevant to the comparison.

I realize there are a lot of Reaper fans here and I've been known to dish on Reaper ;) :lol: , and the 2 dev team should be commended for what they've achieved with Reaper, for sure. But to compare Reaper's update frequency (that rarely, ever, changes any core functionality) and what is done with Reason just isn't realistic IMHO.
I wouldn't expect Reason to be updated as often as Reaper no but still they seem to take a long time. Ok, non of us know what the code is or how it works but I do have an idea of code since I use to type in programs on my ZX Soectrum in the 80's lol! I'm guessing there will be a section of code for the rack, a section for the sequencer and a section for the mixer. The rack will have a redirection to a section of code (so when someone clicks Alligator from the menu) it goes to the section of code for Alligator. So if (and this is one thing I'd have liked to have seen added to Alligator) they added a 32 step trance gate to it, you'd have to go into the graphics code for Alligator (after first redesigning the device adding the 32 step pattern graphic (I vote for one like on ReDrum but twice the length) then add that part. Then add the bit of code (make it pattern 0 and then the current 0-63 become 1 to 64 and change the wording in the manual) then when 0 is selected, your pattern is the pattern that's gated.

Also, sorry, not sure what point I was making and yes, I know you can just hook up a ReDrum to Alligator and create your own pattern that way. :lol:
Last edited by Creativemind on 14 Nov 2021, edited 1 time in total.
:reason:

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Billy+
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Post 14 Nov 2021

I wish we could all stay on topic "the roadmap", I was hoping to add updates to this thread as it was made a sticky

but as things stand it's just going to full of completely off topic discussion.......

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MrFigg
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Post 14 Nov 2021

What’s your favourite soft drink?
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orthodox
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Billy+ wrote:
14 Nov 2021
I wish we could all stay on topic "the roadmap", I was hoping to add updates to this thread as it was made a sticky

but as things stand it's just going to full of completely off topic discussion.......
Why won't you just ignore the noise and add your on topic updates?

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MrFigg
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Maybe apply some…
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Creativemind
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Post 14 Nov 2021

MrFigg wrote:
14 Nov 2021
What’s your favourite soft drink?
Had one of those the other night. Hadn't had one in ages (probably 18 months or more) and forgotton how nice they were. Also, it was a bit sticky. bring back Cadbury Spira.

Spira.JPG
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Last edited by Creativemind on 14 Nov 2021, edited 2 times in total.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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MrFigg
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Creativemind wrote:
14 Nov 2021
MrFigg wrote:
14 Nov 2021
What’s your favourite soft drink?
Had one of those the other night. Hadn't had one in ages (probably 18 months or more) and forgotton how nice they were. Also, it was a bit sticky. bring back Cadbury Spira.
I don’t think I’ve had one since the 70s.
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Billy+
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Post 14 Nov 2021

orthodox wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Billy+ wrote:
14 Nov 2021
I wish we could all stay on topic "the roadmap", I was hoping to add updates to this thread as it was made a sticky

but as things stand it's just going to full of completely off topic discussion.......
Why won't you just ignore the noise and add your on topic updates?
I was just messing with you all......

Well apart from the bullsh*t argument about frikin file sizes of daws and how much is rewritten?

Honestly who gives a flying ****

Go make some memes they "Reason Studios" said it would help and at this point I think they could use all the help they can get......... :lol:

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Creativemind
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Post 14 Nov 2021

MrFigg wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Creativemind wrote:
14 Nov 2021


Had one of those the other night. Hadn't had one in ages (probably 18 months or more) and forgotton how nice they were. Also, it was a bit sticky. bring back Cadbury Spira.
I don’t think I’ve had one since the 70s.
What d'ya go for now? lol!

Get yourself one, your taste buds will explode lol!
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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DaveyG
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Creativemind wrote:
14 Nov 2021
MrFigg wrote:
14 Nov 2021
What’s your favourite soft drink?
Had one of those the other night. Hadn't had one in ages (probably 18 months or more) and forgotton how nice they were. Also, it was a bit sticky. bring back Cadbury Spira.


Spira.JPG
Spira. Yes. Completely forgotten about that. Not bad, but not a winner.

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Creativemind
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Post 14 Nov 2021

DaveyG wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Creativemind wrote:
14 Nov 2021


Had one of those the other night. Hadn't had one in ages (probably 18 months or more) and forgotton how nice they were. Also, it was a bit sticky. bring back Cadbury Spira.


Spira.JPG
Spira. Yes. Completely forgotten about that. Not bad, but not a winner.
I wish they'd bring back Spira, the Triple Choc Twix (which was limited edition but amazing) and McVitie's United biscuit bars. Used to always take a United, an Orange Club or a Breakaway to school haha!
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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MrFigg
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Flakes and Crunchies all the way for me.
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DaveyG
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Creativemind wrote:
14 Nov 2021
... or a Breakaway
Aw man. That day they took away our, erm, Brookaway.

Just mentioning those brands triggers the jingles in my head, for better or for worse.

"Don't take away my Breakaway"
"Lub a Club"
"United we stand"

Don't remember the triple choc Twix though.

jaeproduced
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Billy+ wrote:
14 Nov 2021
jaeproduced wrote:
13 Nov 2021


Jumped ship to what DAW I may ask?
Oh I haven't moved away from Reason I just ditched R12 sub and went back to R11, I've spent far too much money on Reason and rack extensions to not use it but I definitely don't need R12 especially given it was made clear that updates would be the way features got added I decided that I could just wait until they become available completed and stable rather than being constantly in a state of development and bug fixes being implemented and the way R11 just got abandoned with acknowledged bugs being left in.

Besides I'm not sure what R12 offers me even after the roadmap is completed, CMBv2 is about the only feature that is of interest but I can live without it.

I just hope that they are able to create a mostly bug free version at some point in the future that is worth upgrading to as this is currently the only version I haven't purchased.
Gotcha, I'm in it for the long haul using Reason 12 only & I didn't spend $129 to go backwards but I'm using a MBP and I'm not having as many issues as the windows users are having it seems. It's a little sluggish at times & takes forever to quit sometimes I have to force quit & the search feature still sucks but other then that it's usable...

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EnochLight
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Post 14 Nov 2021

Italophile wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Where are you getting the figure of 2GB from?

Reason is actually just a meager 43MB program.
selig wrote:
14 Nov 2021
I'm not seeing either 44mb or 2GB as a file size for any version of Reason I have access to currently.
But the fact we are all seeing vastly different figures indicates there are (at least) a few unaccounted for variables here...
artotaku wrote:
14 Nov 2021
So in total the download file size is about 1,4 GB excluding Soundbanks and external content (Klang, Humana, etc).
I extrapolated file size from the earlier (pre 7.0, when refills weren't included) Reason downloads available in my account, minus the FSB and Orkerster content. Regardless, Reaper is clearly at least half the size of Reason - code wise. I still assert that the complexity of Reason leaves Reaper in the dust. Change my mind.
kitekrazy wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Ignorance abounds in this statement. The only thing you got right was Reaper's file size.
If you want to add something of value into this thread, try avoiding ad hominems; carries a lot more weight. But I'd love to hear why you think anything I said was "ignorant". :thumbup:
Billy+ wrote:
14 Nov 2021
Well apart from the bullsh*t argument about frikin file sizes of daws and how much is rewritten?

Honestly who gives a flying ****
Well, Billy - it's not bullshit if you want to discuss the absurd idea that Reason should be just as easy to update as Reaper apparently is. Someone pointed out that Reason doesn't get as many updates that Reaper does (which is roughly once a month, with only 2 devs). I submit that the explanation is: Reason is a far more complex program. That's 100% relevant to this discussion, is it not?
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