Reason Studios shares their roadmap (September 7, 2021)

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avasopht
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01 Nov 2021

Pepin wrote:
01 Nov 2021
Agreed. In an ideal world, they'd post a public list of known issues that points you toward a download link for R11 if any of the issues pertain to you. However, they probably view quietly fixing the bugs ASAP as the best way to minimize fallout. And I'm not sure that's wrong, since many current users of R12 are probably unaware of the various issues.

Where are you seeing the info about refund requests? I didn't know many people bought Reason from other vendors these days.
Someone shared their experience of having to wait a while for a refund because they were working on a huge backlog of those requests.

It would have been much cheaper for me to buy R12 from JRRShop in September. It may have been the same case with some of the others as well, but I didn't check.

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joeyluck
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01 Nov 2021

avasopht wrote:
01 Nov 2021
Yeah, but my initial issue still remains - they should have been upfront about its state as an alpha/beta release. Apparently, vendors are being overwhelmed with refund requests.
Huh? That's unlikely.

Whatever you saw was probably from someone dealing with one specific vendor.

And that would likely mean either:

A) The vendor is behind with returns in general for everything.
B) Reason is so popular it sold so many copies and at the same time had so many requests for returns that the vendor is overwhelmed?

I'm going to guess 'A'

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plaamook
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01 Nov 2021

joeyluck wrote:
01 Nov 2021
avasopht wrote:
01 Nov 2021
Yeah, but my initial issue still remains - they should have been upfront about its state as an alpha/beta release. Apparently, vendors are being overwhelmed with refund requests.
Huh? That's unlikely.

Whatever you saw was probably from someone dealing with one specific vendor.

And that would likely mean either:

A) The vendor is behind with returns in general for everything.
B) Reason is so popular it sold so many copies and at the same time had so many requests for returns that the vendor is overwhelmed?

I'm going to guess 'A'
That was me and it was a delayed email from JRRShop. They were refering to RS having to deal with so many requests and support issues their end. JRR has to go through RS in order to fulfill a refund, hence their late rply to me. I didn't get the impression that JRR had many of these requests themselves.
Last edited by plaamook on 01 Nov 2021, edited 1 time in total.
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plaamook
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01 Nov 2021

Pepin wrote:
01 Nov 2021
...since many current users of R12 are probably unaware of the various issues.
I would imagine most users are aware of at least a few issues.
I haven't seen a poll but considering what I've got on my system I find it difficult to believe anyone has no issues at all. I would think the issue free users might be in the minority, but that's an assumption of course.
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avasopht
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01 Nov 2021

plaamook wrote:
01 Nov 2021
That was me and it was a delayed email from JRRShop. They were refering to RS having to deal with so many requests and support issues their end. JRR has to go through RS in order to fulfill a refund, hence their late rply to me. I didn't get the impression that JRR had many of these requests themselves.
Oh, my bad.

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plaamook
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01 Nov 2021

avasopht wrote:
01 Nov 2021
plaamook wrote:
01 Nov 2021
That was me and it was a delayed email from JRRShop. They were refering to RS having to deal with so many requests and support issues their end. JRR has to go through RS in order to fulfill a refund, hence their late rply to me. I didn't get the impression that JRR had many of these requests themselves.
Oh, my bad.
Not really. It amounts to the same thing if vendors need to process their returns via props.
I’d be curious to see an actual figure on that compared to previous versions.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

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joeyluck
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01 Nov 2021

plaamook wrote:
01 Nov 2021
joeyluck wrote:
01 Nov 2021


Huh? That's unlikely.

Whatever you saw was probably from someone dealing with one specific vendor.

And that would likely mean either:

A) The vendor is behind with returns in general for everything.
B) Reason is so popular it sold so many copies and at the same time had so many requests for returns that the vendor is overwhelmed?

I'm going to guess 'A'
That was me and it was a delayed email from JRRShop. They were refering to RS having to deal with so many requests and support issues their end. JRR has to go through RS in order to fulfill a refund, hence their late rply to me. I didn't get the impression that JRR had many of these requests themselves.
Gotcha that explains it. As far as I know, JRRShop is one or very few people.

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plaamook
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02 Nov 2021

joeyluck wrote:
01 Nov 2021
plaamook wrote:
01 Nov 2021


That was me and it was a delayed email from JRRShop. They were refering to RS having to deal with so many requests and support issues their end. JRR has to go through RS in order to fulfill a refund, hence their late rply to me. I didn't get the impression that JRR had many of these requests themselves.
Gotcha that explains it. As far as I know, JRRShop is one or very few people.
But that’s just it. It’s not them. It’s Rs that’s got the back log of refund requests according to what I’ve been told. JRR has had a hold up due to that. They themselves were quick on it.
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whitewolfmusic
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02 Nov 2021

Seriously, what the hell. Still no official notification on the website about the delay.

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EnochLight
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02 Nov 2021

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MrFigg
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02 Nov 2021

I’m not usually one to get annoyed. Actually that’s not true. I am. I’ve turned into a right grumpy old f*ck truth be known. But yeah…I am annoyed at all the bugs in R12 and the constant crashing and the browser not staying collapsed and all the other stuff which just take the pleasure out of recording. Yeah. I’m annoyed.
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WOO
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02 Nov 2021

What happened to this company. One of the reasons I've stuck with them 15 plus years was because it always worked on whatever computer I ran it on no matter how crappy or old the system was. If it met the minimum requirements for using it worked right out of the box and never crashed. I experienced the first problems with crashes in ver. 10 and I do have the occasional crash with ver. 11. Because of all the problems people are reporting I'll wait to purchase 12 just before the release of 13. Assuming the company isn't sold before that happens or they completely drop the perpetual license option.

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EnochLight
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02 Nov 2021

WOO wrote:
02 Nov 2021
and I do have the occasional crash with ver. 11.
Really?! 11 was/is rock solid for me. Didn't know people had stability issues with 11.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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Billy+
Posts: 4157
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02 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
02 Nov 2021
WOO wrote:
02 Nov 2021
and I do have the occasional crash with ver. 11.
Really?! 11 was/is rock solid for me. Didn't know people had stability issues with 11.
R11 might be rock solid but it was left with acknowledged bugs that could have/should have been fixed.

I definitely think that RS should have fixed the audio bug the companion preferences bug and included CMBv2 so R11 had at least something worth while in it before moving on to R11

It might have made the issues with R12 less of a hassle as we could have continued using the +packs in R11 while they got to the bottom of R12 bugs......

earwig83
Posts: 208
Joined: 21 Mar 2015

02 Nov 2021

I really think this company and platform is likely doomed long term with the approach the venture capital fund era has been taking. Strictly my opinion but I really think the new CEO venture bro is super transparent to a fault, even if he thinks he s not. He's in it for the sale/money, not the music. He doesn't have a musical bone in his body and everything he says speaks volumes of the horrible direction he is going with all this. Most companies that lose the single individuals vision end up this way. I'd go further into it but I've been warned before for making unsubstantiated personal critiques of individuals at the company. That said, I am pretty sure Ernst had to roll over for whatever reason. I believe this venture capital thing was hostile. Would love information on exactly what happened if anyone has more info!

And my criteria for them being doomed is:

1) they are no longer a company loved by its biggest and most dedicated and biggest spending users (i am one of them)
2) they are no longer a company of musicians responding to musicians. They are responding to social media trends and casual user market.
3) they are no longer bug-free and well optimized. Newest version of 12 is a disaster in numerous ways. The half baked hi-res thing is a slap in the face.
4) they are inevitably erasing people's ability to "own" something long term and stubbornly doubling down on awful subscription paradigm. This is also making Reason less self-contained, breaking the one thing that set them apart from everyone.
5) they are slowly letting marketing eclipse solid product development (the social push lately has just been straight up cringe and overwhelmingly incessant)
6) abandoning RE market and shop (just put the darn shop link at the top of the page, there is a spot for it!) Insanity.
7) most of the recent UI designs have been awful and chunky/clunky. Most of the new REs suffer from major UI issues.
8) they tried to make a road map and already failing to deliver on it for things that should have been there when the damn product shipped! Just like the snake oil salesmen losers at CDPR.
9) this forum is too soft and spends too much time trying to defend the company. Just like reddit and their mods do.

corpos are ruining it all... again! hahahah

If I could walk away with a DRM free version of my 10/11 or 12 license, I would, out of protest. But I am invested, and really want them to survive and keep this legacy going and I bet they know that but why not listen? I regret not listening to my friend when we used to debate about this issue. And that's sad because I have bought every version since 5 on day one and really want Reason to keep living. it probably will but not in a way most of us want it to.

There is still a chance for them to win us over but after 3 versions of people saying "I'll wait for the next version" I think it is safe to say it is likely downhill from here, even if there are a few highs along the way. Just like drug abuse, you can still have a good time here and there before you finally kick it. haha

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plaamook
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02 Nov 2021

EnochLight wrote:
02 Nov 2021
WOO wrote:
02 Nov 2021
and I do have the occasional crash with ver. 11.
Really?! 11 was/is rock solid for me. Didn't know people had stability issues with 11.
I got one single crash out of either 10 or 11. Can’t even remember which. Only time R ever crashed on me before 12.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
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Or here.
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earwig83
Posts: 208
Joined: 21 Mar 2015

02 Nov 2021

plaamook wrote:
02 Nov 2021
EnochLight wrote:
02 Nov 2021


Really?! 11 was/is rock solid for me. Didn't know people had stability issues with 11.
I got one single crash out of either 10 or 11. Can’t even remember which. Only time R ever crashed on me before 12.
same! and it was usually at fault of something else like a weird vst or hardware driver. rarely reason itself. but with 12, I've had 5-10 crashes, all unexplainable.

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plaamook
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02 Nov 2021

12 crashed in pretty specific ways for me.
Only one crash I couldn’t track down so far. I reported the rest.
Perpetual Reason 12 Beta Tester :reason:

You can check out my music here.
https://m.soundcloud.com/ericholmofficial
Or here.
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kitekrazy
Posts: 1036
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

02 Nov 2021

earwig83 wrote:
02 Nov 2021
I really think this company and platform is likely doomed long term with the approach the venture capital fund era has been taking. Strictly my opinion but I really think the new CEO venture bro is super transparent to a fault, even if he thinks he s not. He's in it for the sale/money, not the music. He doesn't have a musical bone in his body and everything he says speaks volumes of the horrible direction he is going with all this. Most companies that lose the single individuals vision end up this way. I'd go further into it but I've been warned before for making unsubstantiated personal critiques of individuals at the company. That said, I am pretty sure Ernst had to roll over for whatever reason. I believe this venture capital thing was hostile. Would love information on exactly what happened if anyone has more info!

And my criteria for them being doomed is:

1) they are no longer a company loved by its biggest and most dedicated and biggest spending users (i am one of them)
2) they are no longer a company of musicians responding to musicians. They are responding to social media trends and casual user market.
3) they are no longer bug-free and well optimized. Newest version of 12 is a disaster in numerous ways. The half baked hi-res thing is a slap in the face.
4) they are inevitably erasing people's ability to "own" something long term and stubbornly doubling down on awful subscription paradigm. This is also making Reason less self-contained, breaking the one thing that set them apart from everyone.
5) they are slowly letting marketing eclipse solid product development (the social push lately has just been straight up cringe and overwhelmingly incessant)
6) abandoning RE market and shop (just put the darn shop link at the top of the page, there is a spot for it!) Insanity.
7) most of the recent UI designs have been awful and chunky/clunky. Most of the new REs suffer from major UI issues.
8) they tried to make a road map and already failing to deliver on it for things that should have been there when the damn product shipped! Just like the snake oil salesmen losers at CDPR.
9) this forum is too soft and spends too much time trying to defend the company. Just like reddit and their mods do.

corpos are ruining it all... again! hahahah

If I could walk away with a DRM free version of my 10/11 or 12 license, I would, out of protest. But I am invested, and really want them to survive and keep this legacy going and I bet they know that but why not listen? I regret not listening to my friend when we used to debate about this issue. And that's sad because I have bought every version since 5 on day one and really want Reason to keep living. it probably will but not in a way most of us want it to.

There is still a chance for them to win us over but after 3 versions of people saying "I'll wait for the next version" I think it is safe to say it is likely downhill from here, even if there are a few highs along the way. Just like drug abuse, you can still have a good time here and there before you finally kick it. haha
I don't think they will exist 10 years from now. It's obvious the decisions are not made by the developers who made this a popular app.

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QVprod
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02 Nov 2021

earwig83 wrote:
02 Nov 2021
I really think this company and platform is likely doomed long term with the approach the venture capital fund era has been taking. Strictly my opinion but I really think the new CEO venture bro is super transparent to a fault, even if he thinks he s not. He's in it for the sale/money, not the music. He doesn't have a musical bone in his body and everything he says speaks volumes of the horrible direction he is going with all this. Most companies that lose the single individuals vision end up this way. I'd go further into it but I've been warned before for making unsubstantiated personal critiques of individuals at the company. That said, I am pretty sure Ernst had to roll over for whatever reason. I believe this venture capital thing was hostile. Would love information on exactly what happened if anyone has more info!

And my criteria for them being doomed is:

1) they are no longer a company loved by its biggest and most dedicated and biggest spending users (i am one of them)
2) they are no longer a company of musicians responding to musicians. They are responding to social media trends and casual user market.
3) they are no longer bug-free and well optimized. Newest version of 12 is a disaster in numerous ways. The half baked hi-res thing is a slap in the face.
4) they are inevitably erasing people's ability to "own" something long term and stubbornly doubling down on awful subscription paradigm. This is also making Reason less self-contained, breaking the one thing that set them apart from everyone.
5) they are slowly letting marketing eclipse solid product development (the social push lately has just been straight up cringe and overwhelmingly incessant)
6) abandoning RE market and shop (just put the darn shop link at the top of the page, there is a spot for it!) Insanity.
7) most of the recent UI designs have been awful and chunky/clunky. Most of the new REs suffer from major UI issues.
8) they tried to make a road map and already failing to deliver on it for things that should have been there when the damn product shipped! Just like the snake oil salesmen losers at CDPR.
9) this forum is too soft and spends too much time trying to defend the company. Just like reddit and their mods do.

corpos are ruining it all... again! hahahah

If I could walk away with a DRM free version of my 10/11 or 12 license, I would, out of protest. But I am invested, and really want them to survive and keep this legacy going and I bet they know that but why not listen? I regret not listening to my friend when we used to debate about this issue. And that's sad because I have bought every version since 5 on day one and really want Reason to keep living. it probably will but not in a way most of us want it to.

There is still a chance for them to win us over but after 3 versions of people saying "I'll wait for the next version" I think it is safe to say it is likely downhill from here, even if there are a few highs along the way. Just like drug abuse, you can still have a good time here and there before you finally kick it. haha
To be fair, I've been seeing prophecies of Reason's doom since version 7 at least. Ernst was still at the helm. Before it was for not keeping up with the times. Now it's for doing exactly that.

The RE shop hasn't been hot since VSTs were introduced, and even before that it was pretty slow since the format was fairly unfinished at launch. Sound familiar? Reason 12?

I think the bugs are very unfortunate, and they clearly have a lot of work to do after switching to a new way of handling releases. But I'd be surprised to still see these issues in the next year. Unless you consider an optional subscription to be an issue. In which case, all DAWs and several plugin makers would be doomed since that's where the market is going now. Pro Tools, Studio One, Waves, Slate Digital, Output...etc...

jaeproduced
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03 Nov 2021

So basically Reason Studios has defaulted back to the old behavior of Propellerhead Reason with No Transparency and the long bouts of silence before any updates/upgrades...smh

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DaveyG
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03 Nov 2021

jaeproduced wrote:
03 Nov 2021
So basically Reason Studios has defaulted back to the old behavior of Propellerhead Reason with No Transparency and the long bouts of silence before any updates/upgrades...smh
Well you can hardly blame them given the recent angsty "Where is my October update?" complaining thread. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

jaeproduced
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03 Nov 2021

DaveyG wrote:
03 Nov 2021
jaeproduced wrote:
03 Nov 2021
So basically Reason Studios has defaulted back to the old behavior of Propellerhead Reason with No Transparency and the long bouts of silence before any updates/upgrades...smh
Well you can hardly blame them given the recent angsty "Where is my October update?" complaining thread. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Agreed but this just shows how much users love Reason and have such high expectations for the software which they should especially when most of us have invested a lot of our time and money in Reason 12 only to experience these unexpected/disappointing results. I still have high hopes/high regards for the software & I believe they will bounce back from this very soon like this Month(November)...

avasopht
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Posts: 3931
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

03 Nov 2021

QVprod wrote:
02 Nov 2021
To be fair, I've been seeing prophecies of Reason's doom since version 7 at least. Ernst was still at the helm. Before it was for not keeping up with the times. Now it's for doing exactly that.

The RE shop hasn't been hot since VSTs were introduced, and even before that it was pretty slow since the format was fairly unfinished at launch. Sound familiar? Reason 12?

I think the bugs are very unfortunate, and they clearly have a lot of work to do after switching to a new way of handling releases. But I'd be surprised to still see these issues in the next year. Unless you consider an optional subscription to be an issue. In which case, all DAWs and several plugin makers would be doomed since that's where the market is going now. Pro Tools, Studio One, Waves, Slate Digital, Output...etc...
Sure, there are always people predicting wars, recessions, etc. Doesn't mean they don't happen.

See, this time around, there have been significant events that greatly increase the likelihood.

They flat out lied about the R12 launch and R+. That's significant.

There's a big difference between someone predicting doom because they want VSTs, and a prediction based on factors that are significant and likely to decrease revenue, loyalty and trust.

It's not correct to just dismiss everything, otherwise that implies they could survive without improving any features, since it's just doom and gloom, right? Now I'm sure you don't think that, but that's what dismissing everything implies.

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guitfnky
Posts: 4408
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03 Nov 2021

DaveyG wrote:
03 Nov 2021
jaeproduced wrote:
03 Nov 2021
So basically Reason Studios has defaulted back to the old behavior of Propellerhead Reason with No Transparency and the long bouts of silence before any updates/upgrades...smh
Well you can hardly blame them given the recent angsty "Where is my October update?" complaining thread. Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
I hope they're not so thin skinned as that.

their communications usually come from the people doing the work—more likely, they're just too busy doing the actual work, since they're behind schedule.
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