that wasn't my point and besides RS said they wanted feedback & ideas so I say all are welcome I just knew video syncing would definitely be followed by other video associated feature requests and I would definitely prefer that RS concentrated on music features before over reaching on videoJagwah wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021Seriously you guys imagine a world where we didn't have to squabble over wanted Reason features. The momentum shown in the new roadmap is extremely promising.
We've been talking about video support for many years, I even had Ryan Harlin at one point admit he would like video support in Reason. Also come across many a good dude who agreed basic video editing support in Reason would be wild and really cool.
Turn that frown upside down and take that sigh and turn it into a song!
Reason Studios shares their roadmap (September 7, 2021)
- EnochLight
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1) Yeah, that would really be awesome - hoping this is something they add in 2022.
2) Man... we've been requesting this - at least as an option - for many, many years. Something tells me it will never happen, though.
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
- AttenuationHz
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Is it even possible to get a much better UI than FabFilter?!PeterP wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021> New devices – We're currently in the research phase of what our next device will be. We have many cool concepts, but please send us your feedback on what you'd like to see (and hear)!
I want an updated set of basic effects. The current eqs and compressors are all old and of the "use your ears not your eyes" style. I want something more like FabFilter Pro series with much better UI.
> We don’t see Reason as either a plug-in or a DAW – Reason is both!
There are two blockers for me before I can return to using it as a DAW:
1) MIDI loop recording to new lanes, or better yet with MIDI comping.
2) Store recorded audio outside the project file. I use a lot of guitar and each song is easily several gigabytes. Storing multiple versions uses up too much disk space.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!
- AttenuationHz
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I'd have to echo what has already been said, it does seem like it's a distraction from how bad this release really is, incomplete and rushed. Don't get me wrong the features added have great potential but they're are all still pretty raw, unfinished and lacking that extra touch that has made releases worthy of praise. I wouldn't exactly call the reworked browser fast, faster than it was yes but it still feels slightly sluggish at times. **A fundamental feature that made browsing easy (ie CTRL + LEFT/RIGHT to go back and forward) This only works when it wants to.
It is great that things are being laid out and transparent, I do hope that continues and more regularly. however it changes nothing of the many issues in R12.
It was a funny read tbh. From the outset "Opening Reason should never feel like a chore" well it does actually, takes far too long to load and if you close it, it takes even longer to open back up because you have to wait for all the background processes to cease.
The problem here is far to many people are accepting the way things are, in a release.
It is great that things are being laid out and transparent, I do hope that continues and more regularly. however it changes nothing of the many issues in R12.
It was a funny read tbh. From the outset "Opening Reason should never feel like a chore" well it does actually, takes far too long to load and if you close it, it takes even longer to open back up because you have to wait for all the background processes to cease.
The problem here is far to many people are accepting the way things are, in a release.
Last edited by AttenuationHz on 09 Sep 2021, edited 1 time in total.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!
- EnochLight
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FabFilter's UI is probably some of the nicest in the industry - absolutely love them! They age really well.
The browser in 12 is literally instant - you don't have to search, because all results just instantly appear as you type. All versions of the browser before didn't have this recursive feature, and it was horrible and archaic. I do agree there's still a long ways to go, though.AttenuationHz wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021I wouldn't exactly call the reworked browser fast, faster than it was yes but it still feels slightly sluggish at times and missing a fundamental feature that made browsing easy (ie CTRL + LEFT/RIGHT to go back and forward)
Believe me when I say that I am *NOT* accepting of the way things are this release. I feel horribly let down that the main DAW/sequencer got zero features at launch, I thought the hi-res rollout was (is) clunky and the first iteration was almost embarrassing as it took hi-res assets minutes to load in some instances. For paying 12+ subscribers, that's unacceptable. I think Mimic is neat, but feel like the absolute lack of presets was a blunder (and before someone says "it's a creative sampler blah blah blah", well so is Grain yet it came with a fantastic assortment of presets).AttenuationHz wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021The problem here is far to many people are accepting the way things are, in a release.
The one shining feature (for me at least) is Combinator 2. I feel like that is a solid improvement, and knowing it's only going to get better - as it was allegedly designed to be updated easily - makes me much less apprehensive. I'm truly looking forward to what talented sound designers come up with in the near future. And I do think the new hi-res graphics are stunning - it makes me want to work in Reason again, especially at higher zoom levels when I need to focus on a specific device. I do wish it worked better in standalone DAW though, as zooming the whole app is a pain in the ass IMHO.
But hey, we're on our way there, right?
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
I'm not accepting it.... I bought R4, upgraded to R5 on day of launch, then R6 I did the same, then R7, R8, R9, R10, R11. And then... R12 launches. I look... I ponder... I conclude that R12 is simply a service-patch and I don't need or want it. I'm sticking with R11.AttenuationHz wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021The problem here is far to many people are accepting the way things are, in a release.
Lo-res doesn't bother me. I have some great samplers already. Combinator 2 panel designing just feels pointless to me -- Combinator 1 does everything I need for now. Yes - they are nice additions, but nothing enhances my music making.
As for sharing a roadmap - kind of feel like I've heard this before. When R+ was launched the CEO and crew went on YouTube and said they'd "engage" more with the community. It didn't really happen. Let's hope they mean it this time.
Check my Soundcloud:
Basic slicing maybe, but, would you really want to use Reason for actual editing over a dedicated video editor? I mean Davinci Resolve is capable of mixing music in, but I'll probably never actually do it since a DAW inherently provides a better workflow for audio than a video editor ever will. I believe the inverse is also true. Most DAWs will only allow a basic trim at most with I think Cubase being the only exception likely because the process are different beasts.
- AttenuationHz
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Takes ~5 seconds to load favorites list's. With roughly 60 samples in there that is a substantial amount of time compared to the old browser, which was instant. While yes recursive search is nice it doesn't help my workflow because I do not use drag and drop. Would be nice if you didn't have to retype the search though when you hit the wrong folder! All little things as a whole make a huge difference.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!
- EnochLight
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Weird, I have more than 60 samples in some Favorites - I'll have to test how long it takes on my machine. Not at the studio right now so will have to get back to you.AttenuationHz wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021Takes ~5 seconds to load favorites list's. With roughly 60 samples in there that is a substantial amount of time compared to the old browser, which was instant. ...
Win 10 | Ableton Live 11 Suite | Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD
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In response to the "digital microphone" and request for community feedback, why don’t you guys at RS pick a selection of the (many) requested features which appear all over this forum, fb and insta and set up a voting page on your website. Inviting owners/subscribers to rate them based on what they'd like to see implemented first. Then publicly add the highest rated features to your roadmap and implement accordingly. This would (hopefully) reduce the critisism/ speculation/ bitterness/ toxicity and restore the trust.
Initially this list could consist of the low hanging fruit/easiest to implement features but could grow with time. (Refreshed periodically)
NB to avoid a shitstorm i would suggest you refrain from implementing features in the RRP before they can be done in Standalone - e.g. dragging an audio clip from the host sequencer into a device with sample loading capability
- AttenuationHz
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Every time reason closes it has to rescan, though once it scans once in the session there's no delay when you open that list again. If you really want to test it try a folder with 900+ wav files. Reason 11 is much faster in that respect.EnochLight wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021Weird, I have more than 60 samples in some Favorites - I'll have to test how long it takes on my machine. Not at the studio right now so will have to get back to you.AttenuationHz wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021Takes ~5 seconds to load favorites list's. With roughly 60 samples in there that is a substantial amount of time compared to the old browser, which was instant. ...
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!
Totally agree. I have paid for a beta. Rush released. Unfinished until January 2022. Speaks volumes that, in less than a week after the official release, the CEO has to step in with this blog. Yikes, sales must be bad.
- Faastwalker
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I appreciate this new approach. Good to have an idea of where things are going and what is being worked on currently.
So it would either be a floating window and nothing else which is perfect for scoring, or it would be that plus a clip / clips in the sequencer. If those clips could just be sliced and reversed and stretched it would open up a world of cool editing. Couple it with the transient audio slicing we already have there would be easy work arounds to slice video at these points. I have a big interest in working with graphics with my own music and to do it in house is similar to people wanting to work in Reason compared to using the RRP, it's just better in multiple ways to stay in this program.QVprod wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021Basic slicing maybe, but, would you really want to use Reason for actual editing over a dedicated video editor? I mean Davinci Resolve is capable of mixing music in, but I'll probably never actually do it since a DAW inherently provides a better workflow for audio than a video editor ever will. I believe the inverse is also true. Most DAWs will only allow a basic trim at most with I think Cubase being the only exception likely because the process are different beasts.
Other features arent necessary, basic things like fade to black or some video effect, just to be able to slice and dice video in here would be amazing. Like I said I've met many others who agree over the years but I'm becoming more aware that it's going to be an extremely hard sell to put out there especially with most of you guys being against it.
I can only hope momentum is really going to pick up like the road map suggests but for the long term, and do my best to convince RS of its worthiness.
- AttenuationHz
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It is stable, that's the main thing. I certainly wasn't expecting an update 1st of September. I had expectations for the end of the month. Considering there was a number of months were everything stopped, it is and would have been an acceptable delay. If there was transparency in that regards there would be very little negative feedback, I feel.
It is not too much of an ask for people or things to be the best version of itself!
Yes we can chill tf out knowing they do actually care about such things as Reason stand alone and sequencer improvements instead of waiting a few years every time just to have our doubts reinforced. It's a far better approach and puts everyone at ease. Also it appears they have great momentum at the moment and if they can just keep that up soon we won't be wanting for features, just excited about their innovating directions, that would be wonderful and this forum would become a much more peaceful and fun place. The road map blog was a great and motivating read. Yay for the new CEO.Faastwalker wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021I appreciate this new approach. Good to have an idea of where things are going and what is being worked on currently.
But the roadmap is just a roadmap for the completion of R12 really. Albeit with a vague bit about wanting suggestions from users with ‘digital microphones’. If they were serious about suggestions they would put a poll on their official website. I’m sure I’ve contributed suggestion to several in the past anyways. To me this roadmap should have come BEFORE the official release of r12. I take no comfort in the CEOs blog as it feels like damage control. Maybe I’d be more chill if there is a roadmap in February 2022 saying ‘phew, now that R12 is finally retail ready, here is the roadmap for 2022-23. We’ve identified innovative features we’d like to see in Reason BUT this time we want to work with you - so here’s a list! Use this poll to let us know which ones excite you all the most. And we’ll get them to you in that order! After all, Reason - Sounds Like You’.
Sorry, that was just my bad EnglishAttenuationHz wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021Is it even possible to get a much better UI than FabFilter?!PeterP wrote: ↑09 Sep 2021> New devices – We're currently in the research phase of what our next device will be. We have many cool concepts, but please send us your feedback on what you'd like to see (and hear)!
I want an updated set of basic effects. The current eqs and compressors are all old and of the "use your ears not your eyes" style. I want something more like FabFilter Pro series with much better UI.
I see the FabFilter UI's as the pinnacle of current VST UI's and I would love to see Reason have a new EQ, Compressor, Gate and Limiter with a similar UI. They don't even have to change the DSP beneath if they don't want to, I'm happy with the sound of we have, especially the SSL-like suite. Although an update to the MClass series wouldn't hurt.
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I just want the freaking note names in the midi notes on the piano roll
If you want to be super cool, you could put the chord name above chords in the piano roll. That would be super helpful from a song writing perspective and I don't think anyone has done it yet (maybe studio one with the chord track).
If you want to be super cool, you could put the chord name above chords in the piano roll. That would be super helpful from a song writing perspective and I don't think anyone has done it yet (maybe studio one with the chord track).
Just out of interest why do you want note names of the piano roll?flexluthor wrote: ↑10 Sep 2021I just want the freaking note names in the midi notes on the piano roll
If you want to be super cool, you could put the chord name above chords in the piano roll. That would be super helpful from a song writing perspective and I don't think anyone has done it yet (maybe studio one with the chord track).
On the midi notes I guess might be handy as it saves looking at the piano roll, I think it would be nice to have the scale degree on the scale and chords keys and i very often include data like this in the labels data and or lane.
- Raveshaper
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From the blog:
RE developers have been required to design their products in high resolution for years. Products that were then sold to customers in good faith, even though the high resolution graphics included in said purchases were never made available to those that had paid for them; for years. I appreciate the engineering effort involved, but if your best and brightest engineers spent a couple of years grinding at figuring out how to provide support for a graphics resolution requirement that your company has imposed on third-party developers -- from the beginning -- in regard to a proprietary technology (RE) that your company invented, I personally believe that the engineering effort could have been spent in a better way.
If you have been requiring enhanced graphics from RE developers since its inception, please explain why you make a point to say the following:
Pictures are not songs.
High graphical overhead is not a composer.
I would opine that using vector graphics that are colorful instead of lifeless and gray would be a better approach.
It could be engineered once, requiring only minor changes if any, and provide future-proofing regardless of native resolution changes among future devices.
It would favor performant audio over graphics rendering and leave GPU acceleration for increasing performance beyond the standard user experience, where possible.
It would also free engineers to focus on improving the core of the app that is in dire need of help.
The bottom line here is that this is an audio program and it has had performance issues and stagnation issues that have not been adequately addressed for a very long time. During a crucial period where dedicated customers have demanded serious improvements in the areas affected by issues that have been openly and commonly complained about, the priority was chosen to deliver an upgrade to looks instead of performance and a more modern feature set. This should cause, and has caused, concern among those dedicated customers.
Many who have used Reason for years do not run the app on modern, GPU accelerated computers as you describe in your blog post. Reason traditionally has been a lightweight music program that can run on minimal hardware. Now the emphasis is on leveraging GPU acceleration as a necessity to run the app normally, let alone enhancing performance to any degree. This, in my mind, is an entire expedition's worth of steps in the wrong direction.
Commitment to photorealistic skeuomorphism will remain a pain point in the development lifecycle moving forward as long as it is prioritized.
Retaining this priority has and will necessarily demote the focus on improving the creation of music and sound(s) to an increasingly secondary position.
It's your baby, do what you will with it. But be warned: this single emphasis on what you can see, rather than what you can hear or how you can do what you can do, could very easily undo all those efforts of engineering.
GraphicsReasonStudios wrote: In Reason 12 we updated the graphics and improved the browser. But I want to take a moment to highlight the engineering effort behind it. Reason is now over 20 years old, and the graphics engine used to be one of the oldest parts of the code. For years we’ve put off changing the graphics engine because we knew what a massive undertaking it was. But in 2019 we decided that enough was enough.
Yep, you read that right. The work to deliver those beautiful hi-res graphics, spinning fans and wear and tear on Subtractor started in 2019. Some of our best engineers spent almost one and a half years performing the brain transplant that updating the graphics engine was. They meticulously moved Reason over, bit by bit, testing on more and more hardware configurations until we in early 2021 opened for a broader public beta test.
Not only did they make Reason work great at any zoom level, but they also switched out all graphics processing to use the dedicated graphics card that all modern computers have.
To put it in perspective, we estimate this investment was on par with building the whole RE-technology. There’s still room for improvement in how Reason handles application zooming, but it’s a huge leap for us to have this out – Reason is more future-proof than ever and we have a great platform to build all those features upon.
RE developers have been required to design their products in high resolution for years. Products that were then sold to customers in good faith, even though the high resolution graphics included in said purchases were never made available to those that had paid for them; for years. I appreciate the engineering effort involved, but if your best and brightest engineers spent a couple of years grinding at figuring out how to provide support for a graphics resolution requirement that your company has imposed on third-party developers -- from the beginning -- in regard to a proprietary technology (RE) that your company invented, I personally believe that the engineering effort could have been spent in a better way.
If you have been requiring enhanced graphics from RE developers since its inception, please explain why you make a point to say the following:
Pixels do not make music.ReasonStudios wrote:For years we’ve put off changing the graphics engine because we knew what a massive undertaking it was.
Pictures are not songs.
High graphical overhead is not a composer.
I would opine that using vector graphics that are colorful instead of lifeless and gray would be a better approach.
It could be engineered once, requiring only minor changes if any, and provide future-proofing regardless of native resolution changes among future devices.
It would favor performant audio over graphics rendering and leave GPU acceleration for increasing performance beyond the standard user experience, where possible.
It would also free engineers to focus on improving the core of the app that is in dire need of help.
The bottom line here is that this is an audio program and it has had performance issues and stagnation issues that have not been adequately addressed for a very long time. During a crucial period where dedicated customers have demanded serious improvements in the areas affected by issues that have been openly and commonly complained about, the priority was chosen to deliver an upgrade to looks instead of performance and a more modern feature set. This should cause, and has caused, concern among those dedicated customers.
Many who have used Reason for years do not run the app on modern, GPU accelerated computers as you describe in your blog post. Reason traditionally has been a lightweight music program that can run on minimal hardware. Now the emphasis is on leveraging GPU acceleration as a necessity to run the app normally, let alone enhancing performance to any degree. This, in my mind, is an entire expedition's worth of steps in the wrong direction.
Commitment to photorealistic skeuomorphism will remain a pain point in the development lifecycle moving forward as long as it is prioritized.
Retaining this priority has and will necessarily demote the focus on improving the creation of music and sound(s) to an increasingly secondary position.
It's your baby, do what you will with it. But be warned: this single emphasis on what you can see, rather than what you can hear or how you can do what you can do, could very easily undo all those efforts of engineering.
Enhanced by DataBridge v5
How about a new player device to manage midi i/o? To do things like split midi channel data over 16 sets of cv/note/gate ports, this simple device could be the answer for the lack of multi-channel midi support. A feature often asked for as part of the sequencer. A feature already available in other DAWs. Something that could be developed by a RE dev. If anyone knows of a player or other rack extension that can do midi channel splitting, please let me know, thanks.
Same with Sample Tank. Every time.
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