Reason 12 has arrived

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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Billy+
Posts: 3159
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 07 Sep 2021

I'm running dual screens 1 32" and 1 22" rotated 90 degrees for the rack but hardly ever turned on :lol:
It seemed like a good idea at the time but actually I found it easy to just maximise the area I was working on than move my neck when I swapped the primary display from 22 to 32 :thumbup:
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Using Reason since version 1 is R11 going to be my final version :shock:

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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wikholm
Posts: 47
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 07 Sep 2021

moalla
"eierlegende wollmilchsau" - rougly: "egg-laying wool milk sow" or "äggläggande ullmjölksugga", as it would be in Swedish, is a proverb I haven't heard before, but a fitting one. The English sometimes refers to "everything and the kitchen sink", in regards to something with every conceivable feature crammed in.
TritoneAddiction wrote:
07 Sep 2021
wikholm wrote:
06 Sep 2021
Finally, more than a trend, I see "rolling releases" as a consequence of software getting so complex internally, that perfectly polished programs aren't that viable any more, lest we users starts saying less is more, and pays for the smallest possible feature set that could do the job. Until such a time, developers will dance to the beat of the market(ing).
I'm probably in the minority, but I'd rather have a smaller upgrade where everything feels polished and tightly integrated. I'd rather pay for that than having a couple of more features swimming around in a complete mess. I really value a hassle free experience and I would be willing to pay for that. That goes for the installation process as well.
Probably yes. I largely belong to the same minority. I would, as I wrote before, have paid €129 for just the Combinator2, especially if a tad more complete on day one. My first attempted C2 build, a remote control for a particular pipe organ VST-plug-in, needed forty buttons for the stops, as one does, on a medium-sized organ, and I had a working layout going well, until I hit the arbitrary limit of 32. Oh, well, it turned out that when I operate stops via MIDI or from within the plug-in GUI, their state doesn't feed back to the mapped buttons on the C2, which might not even be possible, come to think of it, so I guess my idea was a bit broken from the start...

musicman691
Posts: 64
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Location: NJ USA

Post 07 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021
I think it’s pretty clear that AttenuationHz has some sort of personal vendetta against us mods for some reason. Looking forward to how this plays out. ;)
I haven't spent that much active time here; mostly lurking as I'm still on R8.3. Seeing about R12 and it's relatively low upgrade price has me interested. Am too looking forward to how this all shakes out. One thing that has me on the fence is not being able to opt out of sending user data & such. Will we be able to opt out in a future update to R12? How/when does this data gets transmitted to the developers? This worries me more than the drama AttenuationHz is creating.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!

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Loque
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Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021
I think it’s pretty clear that AttenuationHz has some sort of personal vendetta against us mods for some reason. Looking forward to how this plays out. ;)
I haven't spent that much active time here; mostly lurking as I'm still on R8.3. Seeing about R12 and it's relatively low upgrade price has me interested. Am too looking forward to how this all shakes out. One thing that has me on the fence is not being able to opt out of sending user data & such. Will we be able to opt out in a future update to R12? How/when does this data gets transmitted to the developers? This worries me more than the drama AttenuationHz is creating.
I did a short network sniffing and couldn't find something. I will go a bit deeper if i have some free time. The problem is, that i saw encrypted data and decryption would require illegal things...
Reason12, Win10

musicman691
Posts: 64
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Location: NJ USA

Post 07 Sep 2021

Loque wrote:
07 Sep 2021
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021


I haven't spent that much active time here; mostly lurking as I'm still on R8.3. Seeing about R12 and it's relatively low upgrade price has me interested. Am too looking forward to how this all shakes out. One thing that has me on the fence is not being able to opt out of sending user data & such. Will we be able to opt out in a future update to R12? How/when does this data gets transmitted to the developers? This worries me more than the drama AttenuationHz is creating.
I did a short network sniffing and couldn't find something. I will go a bit deeper if i have some free time. The problem is, that i saw encrypted data and decryption would require illegal things...
That you saw encrypted data is scary. Wonder what was sending that data?
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!

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Loque
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Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
Loque wrote:
07 Sep 2021

I did a short network sniffing and couldn't find something. I will go a bit deeper if i have some free time. The problem is, that i saw encrypted data and decryption would require illegal things...
That you saw encrypted data is scary. Wonder what was sending that data?
Could be license checks. Nothing wrong with encryption per se.
Reason12, Win10

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EnochLight
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Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
One thing that has me on the fence is not being able to opt out of sending user data & such. Will we be able to opt out in a future update to R12? How/when does this data gets transmitted to the developers? This worries me more than the drama AttenuationHz is creating.
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
That you saw encrypted data is scary. Wonder what was sending that data?
What you should be concerned about is if the data wasn't encrypted. It's 100% encrypted as well as anonymous and the data that RS gets doesn't identify you personally. It does, however, indicate how you use Reason. What devices you create. Whether you use it as RRP in another DAW or Reason standalone. Stuff like that. It helps them determine what's working and what's not. If you want more info, it's listed in the EULA at install.
Win 10 | Abelton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Sumsung 870 QVO 2 TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

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avasopht
Posts: 2865
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
That you saw encrypted data is scary. Wonder what was sending that data?
Encrypting data is pretty standard nowadays. Nothing scary about it.

Your posts on RT are encrypted when being submitted, as are the pages when you view them.

Given Reason Studios are subject to GDPR laws, it's highly unlikely they'd risk a fine of up to 4% of their annual revenue to steal the text in your rack labels that could contain PII (if, for example, you labelled your mixer with your SSN or credit card number).

It's also private corporate data. If they didn't encrypt it, it could easily reveal statistics to competitors that could signal to them which features they could implement to attract Reason users.
---

musicman691
Posts: 64
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Location: NJ USA

Post 07 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
One thing that has me on the fence is not being able to opt out of sending user data & such. Will we be able to opt out in a future update to R12? How/when does this data gets transmitted to the developers? This worries me more than the drama AttenuationHz is creating.
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
That you saw encrypted data is scary. Wonder what was sending that data?
What you should be concerned about is if the data wasn't encrypted. It's 100% encrypted as well as anonymous and the data that RS gets doesn't identify you personally. It does, however, indicate how you use Reason. What devices you create. Whether you use it as RRP in another DAW or Reason standalone. Stuff like that. It helps them determine what's working and what's not. If you want more info, it's listed in the EULA at install.
But how good is the encryption? Nothing is bullet proof. I've seen far too many supposedly secure systems hacked into.

Are we ever going to be able to opt out of sending the data or not? A simple yes or no would suffice. And on this - why was it changed from being able to opt out to taking that choice away? I don't want anyone to see how I use something - it's none of their business.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!

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avasopht
Posts: 2865
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021




What you should be concerned about is if the data wasn't encrypted. It's 100% encrypted as well as anonymous and the data that RS gets doesn't identify you personally. It does, however, indicate how you use Reason. What devices you create. Whether you use it as RRP in another DAW or Reason standalone. Stuff like that. It helps them determine what's working and what's not. If you want more info, it's listed in the EULA at install.
But how good is the encryption? Nothing is bullet proof. I've seen far too many supposedly secure systems hacked into.

Are we ever going to be able to opt out of sending the data or not? A simple yes or no would suffice. And on this - why was it changed from being able to opt out to taking that choice away? I don't want anyone to see how I use something - it's none of their business.
In a nutshell, there are effectively uncrackable encryption algorithms that are well sorted by must programming languages.

Hacking involves more than just breaking the encryption - primarily espionage, digital infiltration and hacking the human.

You cannot opt out. There are no known plans, but who knows.

Why? Because it's valuable data that informs them on how they can create better software.
---

musicman691
Posts: 64
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Location: NJ USA

Post 07 Sep 2021

avasopht wrote:
07 Sep 2021
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021


But how good is the encryption? Nothing is bullet proof. I've seen far too many supposedly secure systems hacked into.

Are we ever going to be able to opt out of sending the data or not? A simple yes or no would suffice. And on this - why was it changed from being able to opt out to taking that choice away? I don't want anyone to see how I use something - it's none of their business.
In a nutshell, there are effectively uncrackable encryption algorithms that are well sorted by must programming languages.

Hacking involves more than just breaking the encryption - primarily espionage, digital infiltration and hacking the human.

You cannot opt out. There are no known plans, but who knows.

Why? Because it's valuable data that informs them on how they can create better software.
The only programs that are supposedly unhackable are those run by alphabet government agencies. Anything less than that is open season. It's happened here in the USA. Took someone 5 minutes on a cellphone to get into a supposedly secure election database.

Thank you for your reply and you've just made up my mind for me and that is I will NOT be upgrading from R8.3 to R12. I don't care how valuable the data might be to someone as I said before people don't need to know how I'm using their program. I always opt out of these data sharing schemes. And if a program that formerly allowed opt out and no longer does - I don't care how neat or useful that program is it's time to cut and run.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!

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avasopht
Posts: 2865
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
The only programs that are supposedly unhackable are those run by alphabet government agencies. Anything less than that is open season. It's happened here in the USA. Took someone 5 minutes on a cellphone to get into a supposedly secure election database.

Thank you for your reply and you've just made up my mind for me and that is I will NOT be upgrading from R8.3 to R12. I don't care how valuable the data might be to someone as I said before people don't need to know how I'm using their program. I always opt out of these data sharing schemes. And if a program that formerly allowed opt out and no longer does - I don't care how neat or useful that program is it's time to cut and run.
I never said unhackable program, but effectively uncrackable encryption. There's a big difference.

What the NSA does is ride the backdoor access they were given by companies like Cisco and the manufacturers and plants that build the chips in your phone and laptop.

The maths required to weaken the types of encryption, if it exists, eludes by a far stretch the greatest recorded geniuses both living and dead. There are little tricks here and there, but they take little more than a bite out of a mountain.
---

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EnochLight
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Post 07 Sep 2021

I wonder if musicman691 realizes how much OSX spies on him and reports back to Apple every time he's online?


Image


:puf_bigsmile: jk
Win 10 | Abelton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Sumsung 870 QVO 2 TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

musicman691
Posts: 64
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Location: NJ USA

Post 07 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021
I wonder if musicman691 realizes how much OSX spies on him and reports back to Apple every time he's online?


Image


:puf_bigsmile: jk
Now I know why I haven't been back here for a while. I don't suffer fools gladly.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!

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Billy+
Posts: 3159
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 07 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021
I wonder if musicman691 realizes how much OSX spies on him and reports back to Apple every time he's online?

:puf_bigsmile: jk
Yes but they do make some really stable software with excellent free updates :lol:

Image



Sorry couldn't resist :thumbup:
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Using Reason since version 1 is R11 going to be my final version :shock:

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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Billy+
Posts: 3159
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
Now I know why I haven't been back here for a while. I don't suffer fools gladly.
You just need to join in,

besides EnochLight is running Windows 10 so it's not just Microsoft who is spying on him it's anyone :lol:
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Using Reason since version 1 is R11 going to be my final version :shock:

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

musicman691
Posts: 64
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Location: NJ USA

Post 07 Sep 2021

Billy+ wrote:
07 Sep 2021
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
Now I know why I haven't been back here for a while. I don't suffer fools gladly.
You just need to join in,

besides EnochLight is running Windows 10 so it's not just Microsoft who is spying on him it's anyone :lol:
But Homie don't play that game. This forum and the people here are the same as they've been since it started. And that ain't good. Crap like this I don't need.

I haven't had a Windoze system in ages. Mac all the way.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!

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EnochLight
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Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
Now I know why I haven't been back here for a while. I don't suffer fools gladly.
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
But Homie don't play that game. This forum and the people here are the same as they've been since it started. And that ain't good. Crap like this I don't need.
Good grief - I was kidding. :shock:
Win 10 | Abelton Live 11 Suite |  Reason 12 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Sumsung 870 QVO 2 TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Akai MPC Live 2 & Akai Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7, MX1, TB3 | Dreadbox Typhon | Korg Minilogue XD

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 3159
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 07 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
Now I know why I haven't been back here for a while. I don't suffer fools gladly.
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
But Homie don't play that game. This forum and the people here are the same as they've been since it started. And that ain't good. Crap like this I don't need.
Good grief - I was kidding. :shock:
Image
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Using Reason since version 1 is R11 going to be my final version :shock:

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 3159
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 07 Sep 2021

Image
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Using Reason since version 1 is R11 going to be my final version :shock:

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

musicman691
Posts: 64
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Location: NJ USA

Post 07 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
Now I know why I haven't been back here for a while. I don't suffer fools gladly.
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
But Homie don't play that game. This forum and the people here are the same as they've been since it started. And that ain't good. Crap like this I don't need.
Good grief - I was kidding. :shock:
Sure didn't come across like that. Even at Gearspace (used to be Gearslutz) they don't play these games. Came here for an honest discussion - nothing more. Either way being that it looks like we'll never get the ability to opt out of sending user data and such you won't be seeing me around here all that much (if at all). $129 to go to something worthwhile.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!

User avatar
avasopht
Posts: 2865
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2021

musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021
EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021




Good grief - I was kidding. :shock:
Sure didn't come across like that. Even at Gearspace (used to be Gearslutz) they don't play these games. Came here for an honest discussion - nothing more. Either way being that it looks like we'll never get the ability to opt out of sending user data and such you won't be seeing me around here all that much (if at all). $129 to go to something worthwhile.
You're reading psychological intent that simply is not there.

That is what normal friendly jest looks like. If you thought that was all malicious, you could benefit by better reading intent.

I respect your needs for privacy. It's your life.

This is a forum where people can unload and unwind in between driving our neighbors crazy with our ghastly blips and bloops.

Lighten up duuude
---

User avatar
Pepin
Posts: 211
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2021

There’s no way to positively spin the removal of the existing opt out feature.

Best case scenario is that most were opting in, and it was too annoying to maintain for the few that weren’t.

Worst case is that too many users were opting out, so they decided users’ expressed privacy preferences were no longer important.

There is an element of trust involved with telemetry that not everyone is comfortable with. The data being encrypted on send doesn’t really provide much assurance, as we still have to trust that it’s being anonymized client side (with no bugs) and stored securely once received by RS.

As mentioned before, I’ll continue using the software. But this move definitely lowers my opinion of RS from an ethical perspective.

musicman691
Posts: 64
Joined: 24 Aug 2015
Location: NJ USA

Post 07 Sep 2021

avasopht wrote:
07 Sep 2021
musicman691 wrote:
07 Sep 2021

Sure didn't come across like that. Even at Gearspace (used to be Gearslutz) they don't play these games. Came here for an honest discussion - nothing more. Either way being that it looks like we'll never get the ability to opt out of sending user data and such you won't be seeing me around here all that much (if at all). $129 to go to something worthwhile.
You're reading psychological intent that simply is not there.

That is what normal friendly jest looks like. If you thought that was all malicious, you could benefit by better reading intent.

I respect your needs for privacy. It's your life.

This is a forum where people can unload and unwind in between driving our neighbors crazy with our ghastly blips and bloops.

Lighten up duuude
What was posted was NOT a friendly jest. I didn't like that kind of crap when I was a kid and I don't like it now that I damned near 70. This is not a respectful place.
Jack
MacPro mid-2012 3.46 GHz hexcore Westmere 48 gig ram
OSX 10.13.6
PT2021.6, Reason 8.3
QAPLA!

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Pepin
Posts: 211
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2021

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2021
I wonder if musicman691 realizes how much OSX spies on him and reports back to Apple every time he's online?
macOS still lets you opt out.
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