High resolution Reason is here!

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Steedus
Posts: 492
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne, AU

Post 16 Jul 2021

VariableX wrote:
16 Jul 2021
my transport, days later and after hours of use still looks like its been all smudged in mspaint is this normal? well i mean i know its not normal but nothing to worry about i assume it will come good eventually?
The transport bar and a couple of other things (like the regroove mixer) aren’t in HD … yet*

*I can only assume it will get updated too at some point but RS haven’t promised anything to my knowledge.

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QVprod
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Post 16 Jul 2021

adfielding wrote:
16 Jul 2021
While my "the splash screen is rubbish" comment was totally glib and should be taken as such, I do think it's funny that there are people insisting that the splash screen isn't at all important in an update currently dedicated primarily to graphical improvements.

Why would it be important? The graphical improvements are related to usability of the software. There’s no functional of the splash screen for the user. The splash screen is by far the least important part of the program and it’s only there for a few seconds. I also use Machine, Studio One and Pro Tools, and none of those splash screens are what I would consider phenomenally better… and if they are, I personally haven’t noticed because it has no effect on my use of those programs…and again, it only lasts a few seconds…

I understand we have visual art connoisseurs here, but the point about the splash screen really seems like majoring in the minors.

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dannyF
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Location: Uranus

Post 16 Jul 2021

Here's to software built in the covid-19 era :thumbup:

VariableX
Posts: 545
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 16 Jul 2021

Steedus wrote:
16 Jul 2021
VariableX wrote:
16 Jul 2021
my transport, days later and after hours of use still looks like its been all smudged in mspaint is this normal? well i mean i know its not normal but nothing to worry about i assume it will come good eventually?
The transport bar and a couple of other things (like the regroove mixer) aren’t in HD … yet*

*I can only assume it will get updated too at some point but RS haven’t promised anything to my knowledge.
Does that mean it should be smudgy and blurry though?
its actually starting to upset me a bit.

VariableX
Posts: 545
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 16 Jul 2021

QVprod wrote:
16 Jul 2021
adfielding wrote:
16 Jul 2021
While my "the splash screen is rubbish" comment was totally glib and should be taken as such, I do think it's funny that there are people insisting that the splash screen isn't at all important in an update currently dedicated primarily to graphical improvements.

Why would it be important? The graphical improvements are related to usability of the software. There’s no functional of the splash screen for the user. The splash screen is by far the least important part of the program and it’s only there for a few seconds. I also use Machine, Studio One and Pro Tools, and none of those splash screens are what I would consider phenomenally better… and if they are, I personally haven’t noticed because it has no effect on my use of those programs…and again, it only lasts a few seconds…

I understand we have visual art connoisseurs here, but the point about the splash screen really seems like majoring in the minors.
I never seen nothing wrong with it whats the problem?

Steedus
Posts: 492
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Melbourne, AU

Post 16 Jul 2021

VariableX wrote:
16 Jul 2021
Steedus wrote:
16 Jul 2021


The transport bar and a couple of other things (like the regroove mixer) aren’t in HD … yet*

*I can only assume it will get updated too at some point but RS haven’t promised anything to my knowledge.
Does that mean it should be smudgy and blurry though?
its actually starting to upset me a bit.
At a zoom higher than 100% yes, but otherwise it should look fine.

VariableX
Posts: 545
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 16 Jul 2021

Steedus wrote:
16 Jul 2021
VariableX wrote:
16 Jul 2021


Does that mean it should be smudgy and blurry though?
its actually starting to upset me a bit.
At a zoom higher than 100% yes, but otherwise it should look fine.
ok thanks that explains it then but begs the question whats the point in half hi-res the other half smudged?
what were they thinking i actually does bother me now.
I am maybe misunderstanding but even on a hi-res screen the transport will be all smudged?

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QVprod
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Post 16 Jul 2021

VariableX wrote:
16 Jul 2021
Steedus wrote:
16 Jul 2021


At a zoom higher than 100% yes, but otherwise it should look fine.
ok thanks that explains it then but begs the question whats the point in half hi-res the other half smudged?
what were they thinking i actually does bother me now.
I am maybe misunderstanding but even on a hi-res screen the transport will be all smudged?
It's an early access release. They will likely fix the rest of it before the full release that people (non R+ folks) will actually have to pay money for.

VariableX
Posts: 545
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 16 Jul 2021

QVprod wrote:
16 Jul 2021
VariableX wrote:
16 Jul 2021


ok thanks that explains it then but begs the question whats the point in half hi-res the other half smudged?
what were they thinking i actually does bother me now.
I am maybe misunderstanding but even on a hi-res screen the transport will be all smudged?


It's an early access release. They will likely fix the rest of it before the full release that people (non R+ folks) will actually have to pay money for.
Nah im on the perpetual 12 upgrade for free (kinda cos i paid for 11 upgrade)

but i did pay $1 for a smudged screen and a look around 12+ lol - cest la vie as they say.

don't get me wrong i'm not complaining just kinda surprised to be honest, if something isnt ready dont release it R+ or not, is my opinion

Philup
Posts: 82
Joined: 21 Feb 2015

Post 16 Jul 2021

QVprod wrote:
16 Jul 2021
VariableX wrote:
16 Jul 2021


ok thanks that explains it then but begs the question whats the point in half hi-res the other half smudged?
what were they thinking i actually does bother me now.
I am maybe misunderstanding but even on a hi-res screen the transport will be all smudged?
It's an early access release. They will likely fix the rest of it before the full release that people (non R+ folks) will actually have to pay money for.
Actually, the subs are the ones who are paying at the moment. I double checked my bank account and can confirm that I haven't paid a nickel for this hot mess.

I want to take this moment to express my appreciation for the subs who are charitably donating their hard earned money to the RIF (Reason Improvement Foundation). I prefer stock options and high yield mutual funds myself.

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QVprod
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Post 17 Jul 2021

VariableX wrote:
16 Jul 2021
QVprod wrote:
16 Jul 2021




It's an early access release. They will likely fix the rest of it before the full release that people (non R+ folks) will actually have to pay money for.
Nah im on the perpetual 12 upgrade for free (kinda cos i paid for 11 upgrade)

but i did pay $1 for a smudged screen and a look around 12+ lol - cest la vie as they say.

don't get me wrong i'm not complaining just kinda surprised to be honest, if something isnt ready dont release it R+ or not, is my opinion
Philup wrote:
16 Jul 2021


Actually, the subs are the ones who are paying at the moment. I double checked my bank account and can confirm that I haven't paid a nickel for this hot mess.
You both know I mean the real actual upgrade price :lol: . R+ users have the opportunity to try this out but also have the option or ignoring it and enjoying the core of what R+ offers.

Let's be clear that I'm not defending anything unfinished. Just rather manage expectations.

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Faastwalker
Posts: 1868
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

BRIGGS wrote:
16 Jul 2021
Faastwalker wrote:
16 Jul 2021
Anyone seen this issue?
Yeah, lol:

Image
Oh dear!! Looks like the control has fallen INTO the rack extension!! Hi-res 3D FX! :cool:

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avasopht
Posts: 2397
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

If this is rendering on the GPU, why not just give us the highest resolution version by default and let the GPU do its thing?

We can worry about resolution-specific optimisations later. Better that than (a) having a really poor quality graphic by default, and (b) having all these glitches.
---

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JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1116
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

QVprod wrote:
16 Jul 2021

There’s no functional [value] of the splash screen for the user.
Sadly it's depressing people are getting hung up on the bloody startup splash screen as that's the least of its troubles. But if you can't beat 'em... :lol:

Whether one chooses to enable a splash screen—where such an option is available—or not, to state it has no function to the user I'm sorry to tell you, is simply not true: you may just not realise how much you do actually rely on it in some situations.

The splash is an indicator to the user that a program is active and loading, and that you've not misclicked. This can be particularly useful in programs that take a long time to initialise, such as Reason, or Windows itself, which has a full-screen splash after POST, or a large (read: bloated) app that takes a while to initialise, like Photoshop, that shows the modules it's loading, or even games, for example, again, often full-screen splashes where they give the user an indication of how long they can expect the loading process to take. I bet you uses splashes way more than you think you do.

Splashes for Windows startup programs, i.e. those horrid but necessary little infestations in the tasbar, AV, RGB and password managers etc, I'd kinda guess most of us would turn those off, as useful as they are in some places, some people do find them annoying when they get lots one-after-the-other.

Now, I'd suggest that one of the problems of Reason 12 right now is that a) every time you change resolution, which in practice is not going to be regular event, or b) opening a songfile via the browser from just your startup template, which isn't ok because this you do moreorless every session, it looks like the bloody program has crashed. Not only does it close ALL its tabs/windows down, it also disappears from Task Managers "Apps" sections. In tests here R12 compared to R11 even where you have fully precached graphics at that scale, its 25-40% longer load times, and this is from a 960EVO NVMe, GTX1070 with a 1800X with DDR3200, an older but still very respectable setup. It's taking 90 seconds to load a 31 device song file.

And yet the feedback Reason gives is that you've just crashed to deskop. :shock:

Now, to be fair, it does do the same thing in Reason 10, too, but personally I never twigged this before because the load times were fast enough [or, I'm wondering, maybe they doesn't shut the template file's windows down as early as they're doing now in R12???] that you don't have to time to be aware of this "faux crash-to-desktop" effect. Right now, it's literally thirty seconds of desktop. The [lack of] feedback RS gives to the user during a loading process given the users' prior experience with using computers is literally that the program has crashed. :clap:

Anyhoo, the splash itself. Yes, it's awful. First time I loaded it was literally "ow, my eyes, what's the retina burn in aid of? I thought this release was meant be beneficial to ailing eyesights?!". Fluorescent colours are for building sites, not IPS computer panels, it's like they're waving shouting at you "hey! look at us!". Hmm... Not waving but drowning. :lol: So ultimately it's a red herring. Sure, it's a full-on radioactive surströmming that'll leave you with a complete cell-breakdown at the DNA level if you get too close to the screen while looking at it. But it's herring nonetheless.

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helmutson
Posts: 101
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

Haha, yes ... the Surströmming analogy is perfect ! :lol:

... I wish I had never opened the can ...
Propellerhead user since 1997 :recycle: :rebirth: :reason:

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JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1116
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

EnochLight wrote:
15 Jul 2021
JiggeryPokery wrote:
15 Jul 2021
And at that point, the marketing should read "Reason HD: It's like staring at a Vaseline-smeared monitor through cataracts."
I'll be the first to say that the way hi-res assets are being handled in Reason 12 (currently) could absolutely be improved. Some hi-res areas missing on the transport are just some (among others), and not having an actual way to zoom into things on a per-device basis is a 100% let down, especially for those of us who prefer to work in Reason DAW standalone. In RRP, things seem to work a lot better, IMHO, at least since it's just "the rack".

Anyway, if your biggest complaint is how displays like your example on NNXT's editor are being handled, I seriously have to disagree that it's really that big of a deal. Vaseline?? Come on man, really. Yeah the text obviously needs to be improved, but is it shit? NOPE. Is it a total mess of blur? NOPE. Is it slightly blurrier than stock 11?

And yes, I absolutely agree that the text is crisper on Reason 11, but the text on R+ 12 preview is absolutely scaled into a workable resolution that is far better than the static text and labels below it.

You're a dev, so it's clear you know a lot more than most of us when it comes to how things work "behind the scenes" when it comes to RE's. I hoping you're right about it being a bug that can be "fixed" or improved by the time 12 or 12.1 comes along. But even if it doesn't improve, it's still absolutely usable a not the travesty you seem to be making it out to be.
Sure, different people's mileage may vary, and even I'd be cautious to suggest I know a lot more than most ;), so it's fine you disagree but since you're defending it as at least acceptable, consider this:

If a TrueType font scaled like that in any other program, e.g. Word, I'm sure you would say Microsoft had fucked up the text handling. So why is it acceptable in a program that costs hundreds of dollars for us to purchase or rent? I've already paid for my R12 upgrade license. This is a product I have paid for. WIth actual money. I expect a minimum level of professionalism for a company who regularly claims to have excellent coders.

But you're a Test Pilot, so you get this stuff for free, so it has no financial impact to you. Personally I wouldn't expect a font to render incorrectly like that in a bit of open source Freeware, but certainly not a program that sells itself as a professional music creation solution.

Scaling fonts was a problem well solved by the early 90s, and Reason ships with standard TrueType fonts. There is no excuse for them rendering like that, and at no point in the last 12 years have RE devs been told their system texts would look blurry in HD, to my knowledge. So Reason Studio rely on public comments like yours to give them a free pass, to undermine genuine criticism.

You defend the indefensible enough times to enough people, and you make the indefensible into something acceptable, so nothing improves. RS haven't fixed issues left over from R10 yet (zooming to the correct track in the sequencer, for example). Because people give them a free pass, when it's just half-arsed, that it's "Work in progress!" and "they'll fix it later!"

You can see they don't.
EnochLight wrote:
15 Jul 2021
JiggeryPokery wrote:
15 Jul 2021
And at that point, the marketing should read "Reason HD: It's like staring at a Vaseline-smeared monitor through cataracts."
Vaseline?? Come on man, really. Yeah the text obviously needs to be improved, but is it shit? NOPE. Is it a total mess of blur? NOPE. Is it slightly blurrier than stock 11?
Enoch, you seriously need to learn what hyperbole is! :puf_smile:
Last edited by JiggeryPokery on 17 Jul 2021, edited 4 times in total.

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MrFigg
Posts: 6720
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 17 Jul 2021

helmutson wrote:
17 Jul 2021
Haha, yes ... the Surströmming analogy is perfect ! :lol:

... I wish I had never opened the can ...
Except once you’ve eaten surströmming five or six times in a klämma you get used to it and hardly notice it’s there. I guess it can still leave a bad taste in your mouth though.
丰2ॐ

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helmutson
Posts: 101
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

JiggeryPokery wrote:
17 Jul 2021
QVprod wrote:
16 Jul 2021

There’s no functional [value] of the splash screen for the user.
Sadly it's depressing people are getting hung up on the bloody startup splash screen as that's the least of its troubles. But if you can't beat 'em... :lol:

Whether one chooses to enable a splash screen—where such an option is available—or not, to state it has no function to the user I'm sorry to tell you, is simply not true: you may just not realise how much you do actually rely on it in some situations.

The splash is an indicator to the user that a program is active and loading, and that you've not misclicked. This can be particularly useful in programs that take a long time to initialise, such as Reason, or Windows itself, which has a full-screen splash after POST, or a large (read: bloated) app that takes a while to initialise, like Photoshop, that shows the modules it's loading, or even games, for example, again, often full-screen splashes where they give the user an indication of how long they can expect the loading process to take. I bet you uses splashes way more than you think you do.

Splashes for Windows startup programs, i.e. those horrid but necessary little infestations in the tasbar, AV, RGB and password managers etc, I'd kinda guess most of us would turn those off, as useful as they are in some places, some people do find them annoying when they get lots one-after-the-other.

Now, I'd suggest that one of the problems of Reason 12 right now is that a) every time you change resolution, which in practice is not going to be regular event, or b) opening a songfile via the browser from just your startup template, which isn't ok because this you do moreorless every session, it looks like the bloody program has crashed. Not only does it close ALL its tabs/windows down, it also disappears from Task Managers "Apps" sections. In tests here R12 compared to R11 even where you have fully precached graphics at that scale, its 25-40% longer load times, and this is from a 960EVO NVMe, GTX1070 with a 1800X with DDR3200, an older but still very respectable setup. It's taking 90 seconds to load a 31 device song file.

And yet the feedback Reason gives is that you've just crashed to deskop. :shock:

Now, to be fair, it does do the same thing in Reason 10, too, but personally I never twigged this before because the load times were fast enough [or, I'm wondering, maybe they doesn't shut the template file's windows down as early as they're doing now in R12???] that you don't have to time to be aware of this "faux crash-to-desktop" effect. Right now, it's literally thirty seconds of desktop. The [lack of] feedback RS gives to the user during a loading process given the users' prior experience with using computers is literally that the program has crashed. :clap:

Anyhoo, the splash itself. Yes, it's awful. First time I loaded it was literally "ow, my eyes, what's the retina burn in aid of? I thought this release was meant be beneficial to ailing eyesights?!". Fluorescent colours are for building sites, not IPS computer panels, it's like they're waving shouting at you "hey! look at us!". Hmm... Not waving but drowning. :lol: So ultimately it's a red herring. Sure, it's a full-on radioactive surströmming that'll leave you with a complete cell-breakdown at the DNA level if you get too close to the screen while looking at it. But it's herring nonetheless.
... something occurs to me ... Snowcrash from Neal Stephenson ... it is a Virus :shock:
Propellerhead user since 1997 :recycle: :rebirth: :reason:

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JiggeryPokery
RE Developer
Posts: 1116
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

dvdrtldg wrote:
16 Jul 2021
It's a flounce

WE HAVE A FLOUNCE

Well flounced, sir. And see you in a couple of weeks

Meanwhile, early reviews of R12 are in and let me tell you my friends, the critics are raving

Indeed.

MusicTech have probably given it a 9/10 already and they've only reviewed the press release! :puf_wink:

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helmutson
Posts: 101
Joined: 30 Mar 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

MrFigg wrote:
17 Jul 2021
helmutson wrote:
17 Jul 2021
Haha, yes ... the Surströmming analogy is perfect ! :lol:

... I wish I had never opened the can ...
Except once you’ve eaten surströmming five or six times in a klämma you get used to it and hardly notice it’s there. I guess it can still leave a bad taste in your mouth though.
... yepp, I prefer eating it with "knäckebrot und quark" and you're right, its like this R12 release, it leaves a bad aftertaste ;)
Propellerhead user since 1997 :recycle: :rebirth: :reason:

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guitfnky
Posts: 3619
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

fullforce wrote:
16 Jul 2021
guitfnky wrote:
16 Jul 2021


game splash screens are the worst. stuff like Battlefield where the game loads into a splash screen, but doesn’t do f$&k all else until you press a button, and then you have to wait for THAT to load. how dumb is it to load a damn picture and not even start loading the actual game behind the scenes. sorry, rant over. 😅
That's not a splash screen, idiot.
:lol:

TritoneAddiction
Posts: 2996
Joined: 29 Aug 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 17 Jul 2021

So I'm gonna ask some basic questions. If someone can give some simple dumbed down answers it would be much appreciated. I'm sure these questions have already been answered to some extent, but I don't have the willpower to plow through the entire thread.

All I'm really wondering here is: If I would get Reason 12 (in it's current state, let's assume it doesn't get better than this) and I only use the normal 100% scaling. Would this Hi Res thing slow Reason down at all? Basically if we ignore the visual changes, will the Hi Res affect anything else in Reason? Would already computer heavy projects be even heavier on the computer, so that shit is more likely to start stutter and stuff? Also are loading times for songs, instruments, effects longer in R12 compared to R11?

I know that all devices has to load properly the first time with this upgrade. Is this only for that particular project/reason file or will it be fixed forever for every future project as well? It's not unusual that I switch between different projects. Would every device have to be adjusted again for every new song I make?

Honestly I'm mostly longing for the new sampler and that's the main reason I want to upgrade. Better graphics is cool and all, but if this Hi Res stuff change my Reason experience for the worse in any way, I'm not sure it's worth it.

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Faastwalker
Posts: 1868
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

helmutson wrote:
17 Jul 2021
... something occurs to me ... Snowcrash from Neal Stephenson ... it is a Virus :shock:
Have you read Neal Stephenson's The Diamond Age: A young ladies illustrated primer?

Love that book ;-)

Image

........ sorry to get off topic!! :?

Philup
Posts: 82
Joined: 21 Feb 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

QVprod wrote:
17 Jul 2021
Philup wrote:
16 Jul 2021


Actually, the subs are the ones who are paying at the moment. I double checked my bank account and can confirm that I haven't paid a nickel for this hot mess.
You both know I mean the real actual upgrade price :lol: . R+ users have the opportunity to try this out but also have the option or ignoring it and enjoying the core of what R+ offers.

Let's be clear that I'm not defending anything unfinished. Just rather manage expectations.
I know. I'm just leveraging my frustration about the current state of things off of your post about who will be paying. Just a little friendly fire. No ill will implied.

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avasopht
Posts: 2397
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 17 Jul 2021

TritoneAddiction wrote:
17 Jul 2021
So I'm gonna ask some basic questions. If someone can give some simple dumbed down answers it would be much appreciated. I'm sure these questions have already been answered to some extent, but I don't have the willpower to plow through the entire thread.

All I'm really wondering here is: If I would get Reason 12 (in it's current state, let's assume it doesn't get better than this) and I only use the normal 100% scaling. Would this Hi Res thing slow Reason down at all? Basically if we ignore the visual changes, will the Hi Res affect anything else in Reason? Would already computer heavy projects be even heavier on the computer, so that shit is more likely to start stutter and stuff? Also are loading times for songs, instruments, effects longer in R12 compared to R11?

I know that all devices has to load properly the first time with this upgrade. Is this only for that particular project/reason file or will it be fixed forever for every future project as well? It's not unusual that I switch between different projects. Would every device have to be adjusted again for every new song I make?

Honestly I'm mostly longing for the new sampler and that's the main reason I want to upgrade. Better graphics is cool and all, but if this Hi Res stuff change my Reason experience for the worse in any way, I'm not sure it's worth it.
The current state is not worth asking about because they are bound to fix/improve the current situation.

So we have no idea whether how the GUI overhaul will perform in the September release of R12.

Presently it seems to increase CPU a bit, but that might just be while it's creating assets for the current zoom level. This might also be done by the GPU in the final version (making it way faster).
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