Sound Design: Emulating Roland Juno

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thedude
Posts: 29
Joined: 08 May 2021

Post 29 Jun 2021

Hi everyone,

I've got TAL UNO-LX, but I am always wondering if I can come close to programming these types of patches using native synths.

I think one of the keys is the phase lock between the saw and square waves on the single oscillator to give that unique harmonic.

On Thor, I do not see any way to phase lock oscillators. Am I missing something? With Europa, there is a phase sync function.

I've been putting either of those two synths in a combi with a use of Quartet set to either the UNO I or UNO II preset and I'm pretty darn close.

Any tips?

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dioxide
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Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 29 Jun 2021

On Thor you could try the Wavetable oscs. I think they are phase locked to note on?

thedude
Posts: 29
Joined: 08 May 2021

Post 29 Jun 2021

dioxide wrote:
29 Jun 2021
On Thor you could try the Wavetable oscs. I think they are phase locked to note on?
Good call. I think the Phase Mod oscillator has 2 waveforms, but i am not very familiar with that osc's functionality. Any idea there?

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dioxide
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Post 29 Jun 2021

I've used it but I think the waveforms aren't pure analogue. The wavetable has samples of a pure saw and a pure square.

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Loque
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Post 29 Jun 2021

Are the Sync buttons in Thor not for phase locking?
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

Heater
Posts: 501
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 29 Jun 2021

I'm also a Juno nut. The closest I got was using the wavetable osc in Thor

thedude
Posts: 29
Joined: 08 May 2021

Post 29 Jun 2021

Loque wrote:
29 Jun 2021
Are the Sync buttons in Thor not for phase locking?
You're absolutely right and I might be overthinking this. The typical 'tearing' sync sound shouldn't be apparent unless the octaves are farther apart and semitones across.
Heater wrote:
29 Jun 2021
I'm also a Juno nut. The closest I got was using the wavetable osc in Thor
I'm going to try doing some A/B with uno lx tonight and see what i can come up with.

I've already been doing some patches from PG8X with surprisingly good results. To me, the biggest differences mostly occurs at higher resonances when sweeping, as the moog ladder filter is much more unruly than the roland OTA filters.

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dioxide
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Post 30 Jun 2021

How does the other Thor filter compare with the Juno?

It always bothered me that I needed to give up an Osc for Noise. Thor needs 4 Osc slots to fully emulate a Juno. I guess you could add noise from a second Thor and run the audio into the audio inputs.

Aside from Thor there's also ReDominator which is an Alpha Juno emulator. I'm not sure how well it would work as a 106 emulator but it's probably worth trying.

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Loque
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Post 30 Jun 2021

dioxide wrote:
30 Jun 2021
How does the other Thor filter compare with the Juno?

It always bothered me that I needed to give up an Osc for Noise. Thor needs 4 Osc slots to fully emulate a Juno. I guess you could add noise from a second Thor and run the audio into the audio inputs.

Aside from Thor there's also ReDominator which is an Alpha Juno emulator. I'm not sure how well it would work as a 106 emulator but it's probably worth trying.
You always can input noise from an external audio input as long as it must not be polyphonic or having specific stuff on it.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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bitley
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Location: sweden

Post 30 Jun 2021

I used to copy old 106 patches with the Sub. Of course it works!

thedude
Posts: 29
Joined: 08 May 2021

Post 30 Jun 2021

dioxide wrote:
30 Jun 2021
How does the other Thor filter compare with the Juno?

It always bothered me that I needed to give up an Osc for Noise. Thor needs 4 Osc slots to fully emulate a Juno. I guess you could add noise from a second Thor and run the audio into the audio inputs.

Aside from Thor there's also ReDominator which is an Alpha Juno emulator. I'm not sure how well it would work as a 106 emulator but it's probably worth trying.
The SVF is a 12db oberheim filter, so more different than alike. I really have no issue with the Moog ladder filter.

ReDominator is fine, and gives you a cool envelope, but I already have UNO LX so this is merely an academic exercise, mostly.
bitley wrote:
30 Jun 2021
I used to copy old 106 patches with the Sub. Of course it works!
Did you do this as a combi with multiple subtractors? A lot of Juno patches will utilize the square/saw with the sub as well. Subtractor is only 2 oscs, so how did you overcome this?

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eXode
Posts: 798
Joined: 11 Feb 2015

Post 30 Jun 2021

Here's a rough approximation of the Juno 60/106 signal path with Europa.

OSC1 and 2 are phase synced to have them stay in sync in relation to each other, thus emulating the single oscillator of the Juno that outputs all three waveforms (saw, pulse, and sub)
OSC1 is used for sawtooth and -1 octave square (sub)
OSC2 is used for pulse
OSC3 is used for noise
Spectral filter can be used to emulate the HP filter (you need the same settings on all three osc)
Amp Env is used for filter modulation (since Juno only had one envelope)
LFO1 set to global (again like Juno)
Chorus is enabled and adjusted to be similar to Chorus 2 mode.

OSC1 Shape adjusts the balance between Saw and Sub. Please observe that OSC1 needs to be tuned -1 octave below OSC2 (Pulse), this is because I'm using a doubled sawtooth (i.e. +1 octave) to approximate the sub (and saving OSC3 for noise)

On OSC2 (Pulse), you can EITHER set the pulse width manually (Shape 50% to 95%) OR use LFO1 for modulation with OSC2 Shape set to 50%. The Juno 60/106 didn't allow for the user to set pulse width manually while using LFO modulation of the width at the same time.

I use the MFB LP 24dB filter mode but you can set this to Ladder LP 24dB if you prefer.

JUNOesque_eXode.zip
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thedude
Posts: 29
Joined: 08 May 2021

Post 30 Jun 2021

eXode wrote:
30 Jun 2021
Here's a rough approximation of the Juno 60/106 signal path with Europa.

OSC1 and 2 are phase synced to have them stay in sync in relation to each other, thus emulating the single oscillator of the Juno that outputs all three waveforms (saw, pulse, and sub)
OSC1 is used for sawtooth and -1 octave square (sub)
OSC2 is used for pulse
OSC3 is used for noise
Spectral filter can be used to emulate the HP filter (you need the same settings on all three osc)
Amp Env is used for filter modulation (since Juno only had one envelope)
LFO1 set to global (again like Juno)
Chorus is enabled and adjusted to be similar to Chorus 2 mode.

OSC1 Shape adjusts the balance between Saw and Sub. Please observe that OSC1 needs to be tuned -1 octave below OSC2 (Pulse), this is because I'm using a doubled sawtooth (i.e. +1 octave) to approximate the sub (and saving OSC3 for noise)

On OSC2 (Pulse), you can EITHER set the pulse width manually (Shape 50% to 95%) OR use LFO1 for modulation with OSC2 Shape set to 50%. The Juno 60/106 didn't allow for the user to set pulse width manually while using LFO modulation of the width at the same time.

I use the MFB LP 24dB filter mode but you can set this to Ladder LP 24dB if you prefer.


JUNOesque_eXode.zip
Very nice to have you chime in. I've purchased your DSI Tetra patches and they are fantastic.

I opened your RE file and have to say that the implementation is very well thought out. I had never thought to use the envelopes as waveforms!

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