Don't they want our money anymore?

[EdwardKiy]

Okay, so throwing shit at someone/something is no longer a dirt, it's a light if it's done in the name of disapproval. Just so that everyone would see them in new light.

If RS' tactic is to ignore user requests, then it's also on them to ignore the resulting jokes or even insults. It's your choice if you want to stand in the way of those.

They can't have the cake and eat it too. I don't see a reason to allow them do it and I refuse to bear any responsibility for their choices that are now beyond any reasonable doubt. I find joking about their on-staff psychiatrist developing trichotillomania well-weighted and appropriate to what they are doing. RS want good reviews without pleasing the reviewers. To me that's absurd and it would shake up my understanding of reality if that ever happened, so I'm kind of curious to see if they can prove me wrong. I may be wrong, but so far it has been a spectacular disaster and a waste of precious resources on their part, that could have been used for just giving the users what they asked for so both sides would get what they wanted. We get improvements, they get good reviews. Good reviews means more new users. What am I missing here?

I didn't say that customers are the boss, but I disagreed with your opinion that it's the opposite. It's all bilateral and consumers have power, because demand creates supply, not the other way around. I think this was our main point of disagreement.

Did you happen to read Adam Fielding's latest post by the way?

[EdwardKiy]

I know sometimes I can be super annoying, but it’s comforting to know I can always look back on the posts of some here and find comments that are even more insufferable.

I second that emotion.

so you guys... came to suffer?

[EdwardKiy]

Reason already has everything needed to make any kind of music you want and to let your imagination run wild.
Without you going into the details of what you're so worried about, I can't really comment further on that with any significant meaning.


When you made the decision to purchase the product, you were buying it for what it was at the time. It's your choice to either continue supporting it or not. If other DAWs are offering features that you find more appealing then I don't see why it's out of the ordinary to discontinue your support of the product. Reason Studios know what their strengths and weaknesses are, more than most give credit for!

Me being here is proof of my choice to support them, isn't it? Why else would anyone be here sharing opinions?

I love my son very much and I've invested and keep investing my time into him. But it won't stand in my way of stopping or even punishing him for bad behavior, otherwise I'll get myself a spoiled brat.

[EdwardKiy]

Yeah, forcing yourself to feel discomfort is always a better option than seeking pleasure. Hard experiences create hard men, which is why Reason users are cut from a different cloth than the soft men who retreat to standard DAWs. Life is meaningless without constant struggle, and Reason supplies us with the Recommended Daily Allowance (as prescribed by Tolstoy) of struggle.

can't fault this axiom

[integerpoet]

so you guys... came to suffer?

I have never claimed perfect mental health.

[guitfnky]

so you guys... came to suffer?

I have never claimed perfect mental health.

or we’ve just gotta take the bad with the good.

[orthodox]

Did you happen to read Adam Fielding's latest post by the way?

Which one? About RRP as a workaround?
Well, that's just an association. I do miss many things in Reason as well. I'm fine with their sequencer though, I don't like their mixer and switched to another DAW for mixing. Yet I don't know if they could really do better and I see no point in increasing pressure on them. It would just ruin the good vibe while not bringing any results.

[aeox]

Reason already has everything needed to make any kind of music you want and to let your imagination run wild.
Without you going into the details of what you're so worried about, I can't really comment further on that with any significant meaning.


When you made the decision to purchase the product, you were buying it for what it was at the time. It's your choice to either continue supporting it or not. If other DAWs are offering features that you find more appealing then I don't see why it's out of the ordinary to discontinue your support of the product. Reason Studios know what their strengths and weaknesses are, more than most give credit for!

Me being here is proof of my choice to support them, isn't it? Why else would anyone be here sharing opinions?

I love my son very much and I've invested and keep investing my time into him. But it won't stand in my way of stopping or even punishing him for bad behavior, otherwise I'll get myself a spoiled brat.

You have a very odd way of supporting Reason then A lot of the things you say on here regarding Reason would appear to be an attempt at damaging reputation of some sort, which isn't very supportive in my opinion. There are better ways to voice your opinions in a more civil manner. This could just be our cultural differences at play here.

I don't think it's appropriate to compare the raising of a child to music production software. Your child is your creation and you raise him according to your standards and morals/beliefs.
We are talking about a DAW that many people use and have way different workflows and needs from one another. Your vision of what is right or wrong differs from others.

I see all sorts of things that could be better in Reason, but they actually have implemented most of the stuff I personally wanted since 2017. So when you say they don't listen to us, that doesn't resonate with me at all.

It is important to voice your opinions but the way you tend to lash out isn't very productive for anyone. Most of us have been guilty of this at some point or another on the forum. Your opinion is valuable and would carry more weight with a different approach!

[EnochLight]

OF COURSE YOU WILL...

[challism]

In rusian there's a special saying for these overly-optimistic people, roughly translates as: "spit in their face - it's all heavenly dew".

Pessimism argument aside, that's a great saying! Funny stuff.

To get back on topic a bit here (forgive me): Your claim that RS don't listen to us. Suppose for a moment that RS were to actually listen to every request from every user... can you imagine how much the software would have to cost to cover such expenses? Can you imagine how over-bloated it would be? It's so easy for us to be armchair quarterbacks and point out all the things they could/should do differently. But it's quite different to be in the game calling the plays, trying to utilize the team to its fullest potential. Forgive the sports analogy, but here's one more. Being on RT does not prove you are a supporter. That's like saying the guy in the stands at the football team heckling the players and yelling "boo" the entire time is a fan.

And that marks my 2700th post on RT!

[guitfnky]

honestly, for all the grumbling I do, it certainly isn’t the case that they “just don’t listen”, as some seem to think. they’ve given us a lot of stuff that many of us have asked for. pitch editing, VST support, MIDI out...hell, even recording. even the stuff we know is coming in v12 is stuff people have asked for. I don’t care about a new combi or sampler, but pretending others haven’t been wanting that is willful ignorance, for anyone who’s spent any time on this forum. and I have asked for 4k support. they definitely listen—to a point. the question now is, how strictly do they adhere to the stated goal of focusing on the Rack. if the last year (and that statement) are any indication, how the hell can anyone be blamed for wondering if they have any intention to continue improving the DAW?

and if they aren’t willing to say otherwise, what can we do but continue to grumble?

[ShelLuser]

One thing I notice from a few of the doomers on the forum and one thing they all share, is their misery. If one doesn't like something that much, it's not healthy to continue being involved in it. I'd rather be optimistic and wrong

Very good point indeed, and I agree. I don't make a habit out of venting like this and please let's make one thing very clear: I do not dislike Reason, far from it even. The thing is though that I've been using Reason for over 10 years now (I started off with version 4) and if I look at those past 10 years and where us Reason users are now then... I'm a bit worried. To some degree anyway.

If I look at my home studio... Live has always been the heart of it, that never changed. But Reason was my all-time to go to backup. The big #2. I didn't buy into Komplete as so many of my fellow Live users back then, I went deep into Reason and I loved every part of it. So fast forward 10 years later and while I'm still using Reason it has more or less been 'downgraded' to a VST (the RRP).

Of course there's nothing really wrong with that by itself. The RRP did have a rough start (like a tab key not doing anything) but as it is right now I can do a lot of patching and such with it. It even provides MIDI out (I no longer have to 'abuse' Thor (and some Javascript) to route MIDI out through ReWire) and it honestly reminds me a little bit about Reason 4 (which also only had one rack, and a fixed window size). It does an amazing job in the overall.. that's not the problem.

But the thing which makes me a little sad sometimes though is that as it is right now I'm doing more with Maschine + Komplete than with Reason. Reason still has a solid place in my home studio, and I still love it for what it is. It gets a lot of things done, and honestly: having this kind of easy access to the Reason players is plain out awesome. But at the same time it's no longer my big number 2... I more or less went from: "Live + Reason, and stuff" to "Live + Maschine, and Reason".

Of course that's just my own home situation, no big deal. But as I mentioned in my rant: back in the day you didn't necessarily pay more for an RE than its VST counterpart. Sometimes, yes, but definitely not every time. And I cannot help but worry about that development. Then add the subscroption "obsession" which is a thing and... yah... I get worried.

And then I have a beer too much and share a rant which may set a bit of a negative mood but that wasn't my intention. I didn't vent because I disliked Reason or anything, heck no. I vented because I'm getting a little worried. Maybe for all the wrong reasons, I sure hope so, but yah...


Seriously: If it wasn't for Reason and its awesome community and all the legends from the past (James Bernard, Mathias, Frank) and some of the present crew I wouldn't be where I am today. And sometimes, like yesterday, that sentiment takes over a bit. Also because one of the things which I came to realize the most when I jumped onto the NI bandwagon (Maschine, Komplete, etc.) is how much potential Reason provided me with...

Example (I'll keep it short; no worries).... NI's Thrill cinematic instrument which sets you back E 300,- vs. Reason's Scenic which sells for E 110,- (rounded up numbers). Now... you can't really compare these two head on, there are some major differences as well as several similarities. A direct comparison itself would be unfair, at least in my opinion. But honestly: owning both instruments myself I can fairly say that Scenic has a lot more potential than some seem to think, I even get the impression that it's a little underappreciated. Of course.. that's the whole Reason story a bit (somewhat)...

Aaaanyway... I sobered up, I am a happy obsessed Obsession user and we'll see where things go from there.

Thanks for your comment! (of course that goes for all you other posters as well of course!)

[challism]

external-content.duckduckgo.jpg (40.78 KiB) Viewed 1405 times

[aeox]

One thing I notice from a few of the doomers on the forum and one thing they all share, is their misery. If one doesn't like something that much, it's not healthy to continue being involved in it. I'd rather be optimistic and wrong

Very good point indeed, and I agree. I don't make a habit out of venting like this and please let's make one thing very clear: I do not dislike Reason, far from it even. The thing is though that I've been using Reason for over 10 years now (I started off with version 4) and if I look at those past 10 years and where us Reason users are now then... I'm a bit worried. To some degree anyway.

If I look at my home studio... Live has always been the heart of it, that never changed. But Reason was my all-time to go to backup. The big #2. I didn't buy into Komplete as so many of my fellow Live users back then, I went deep into Reason and I loved every part of it. So fast forward 10 years later and while I'm still using Reason it has more or less been 'downgraded' to a VST (the RRP).

Of course there's nothing really wrong with that by itself. The RRP did have a rough start (like a tab key not doing anything) but as it is right now I can do a lot of patching and such with it. It even provides MIDI out (I no longer have to 'abuse' Thor (and some Javascript) to route MIDI out through ReWire) and it honestly reminds me a little bit about Reason 4 (which also only had one rack, and a fixed window size). It does an amazing job in the overall.. that's not the problem.

But the thing which makes me a little sad sometimes though is that as it is right now I'm doing more with Maschine + Komplete than with Reason. Reason still has a solid place in my home studio, and I still love it for what it is. It gets a lot of things done, and honestly: having this kind of easy access to the Reason players is plain out awesome. But at the same time it's no longer my big number 2... I more or less went from: "Live + Reason, and stuff" to "Live + Maschine, and Reason".

Of course that's just my own home situation, no big deal. But as I mentioned in my rant: back in the day you didn't necessarily pay more for an RE than its VST counterpart. Sometimes, yes, but definitely not every time. And I cannot help but worry about that development. Then add the subscroption "obsession" which is a thing and... yah... I get worried.

And then I have a beer too much and share a rant which may set a bit of a negative mood but that wasn't my intention. I didn't vent because I disliked Reason or anything, heck no. I vented because I'm getting a little worried. Maybe for all the wrong reasons, I sure hope so, but yah...


Seriously: If it wasn't for Reason and its awesome community and all the legends from the past (James Bernard, Mathias, Frank) and some of the present crew I wouldn't be where I am today. And sometimes, like yesterday, that sentiment takes over a bit. Also because one of the things which I came to realize the most when I jumped onto the NI bandwagon (Maschine, Komplete, etc.) is how much potential Reason provided me with...

Example (I'll keep it short; no worries).... NI's Thrill cinematic instrument which sets you back E 300,- vs. Reason's Scenic which sells for E 110,- (rounded up numbers). Now... you can't really compare these two head on, there are some major differences as well as several similarities. A direct comparison itself would be unfair, at least in my opinion. But honestly: owning both instruments myself I can fairly say that Scenic has a lot more potential than some seem to think, I even get the impression that it's a little underappreciated. Of course.. that's the whole Reason story a bit (somewhat)...

Aaaanyway... I sobered up, I am a happy obsessed Obsession user and we'll see where things go from there.

Thanks for your comment! (of course that goes for all you other posters as well of course!)

I agree with a lot of the frustrations people have too! Not all but some It's the best music community for me, because something about Reason has made us gravitate towards it in the first place. I like to think we all have a lot in common.

By the way, I wasn't referring to your post. It didn't seem to have malicious intent of any kind. The ones who have been doing that know who they are!

[fullforce]

Speaking of old things, what's the reason for putting that old Pulsar video in your post? I don't understand the connection.

That's the beer.

[Auryn]

I read the thread title and it occurred to me that it would be a cool concept album title.

"Don't They Want Our Money Anymore?"

[avasopht]

honestly, for all the grumbling I do, it certainly isn’t the case that they “just don’t listen”, as some seem to think. they’ve given us a lot of stuff that many of us have asked for. pitch editing, VST support, MIDI out...hell, even recording. even the stuff we know is coming in v12 is stuff people have asked for. I don’t care about a new combi or sampler, but pretending others haven’t been wanting that is willful ignorance, for anyone who’s spent any time on this forum. and I have asked for 4k support. they definitely listen—to a point. the question now is, how strictly do they adhere to the stated goal of focusing on the Rack. if the last year (and that statement) are any indication, how the hell can anyone be blamed for wondering if they have any intention to continue improving the DAW?

and if they aren’t willing to say otherwise, what can we do but continue to grumble?

I have to agree with this 100%.

There was a thread on the forum from the time before that listed all the major feature requests.

Most of them have been ticked off, including the ones we were confident would never be done.

Most people are sure that VST would never happen, or RRP.

If you've never used ReWire, you have no idea how much RRP was wanted.

It's hard to believe we've had recording for more years than we did not .

I'll never forget the excitement during the advent calendar like feature reveal (with clues) for Reason 5. That was something else.

Anyway, they have definitely been listening as one item gets ticked off of that list with each new version of Reason.

[PhillipOrdonez]

What those entitled ***hats mean is RS has not been listening TO THEM.

[challism]

I'm really liking the positive direction this thread is headed.

Our beloved DAW is far from perfect, but look at how far it's come. And it's true that they do keep ticking off more of our feature requests. I think the influx of money coming from R+ subscribers will really help them afford to give us more feature requests at an accelerated rate.

[plaamook]

Quite right. I've been thinking this for a while now, as people go on and on about how no one listens etc. Just ain't true is it.
Recording/audio editing, VSTs, REs, midi out!!! (ye gods...remember that shit?)
(Half baked) Recycle integration, RRP
It's all in there now.
MP3 export, hi res, new devices... all that's left is the sequencer!
And of course RX Connect...(shit's so dope)

But mybe what's happening is that the closer Reason gets to being a real grown up DAW the more the gap between it and the rest of the DAWs out there becomes aparent.
Before audio and VST who would have bothered comparing Reason to Logic PT or Live? But now they've put on the Ring (so to speak) they're suddenly visible in the underworld where there used to be this gap that said 'hey, we're Reason and we don't have anything much to do with actual DAWs'. Etc.
Further, the introduction of these features has lead many people to trying out other DAWs and branching out in general, further accentuating what is essentially Reason's giant learing curve of missing or half baked features as it builds up speed in this new arena juxtaposed against companies that started out in a very different way and are now very understandably miles ahead.

[avasopht]

Quite right. I've been thinking this for a while now, as people go on and on about how no one listens etc. Just ain't true is it.
Recording/audio editing, VSTs, REs, midi out!!! (ye gods...remember that shit?)
(Half baked) Recycle integration, RRP
It's all in there now.
MP3 export, hi res, new devices... all that's left is the sequencer!
And of course RX Connect...(shit's so dope)

But mybe what's happening is that the closer Reason gets to being a real grown up DAW the more the gap between it and the rest of the DAWs out there becomes aparent.
Before audio and VST who would have bothered comparing Reason to Logic PT or Live? But now they've put on the Ring (so to speak) they're suddenly visible in the underworld where there used to be this gap that said 'hey, we're Reason and we don't have anything much to do with actual DAWs'. Etc.
Further, the introduction of these features has lead many people to trying out other DAWs and branching out in general, further accentuating what is essentially Reason's giant learing curve of missing or half baked features as it builds up speed in this new arena juxtaposed against companies that started out in a very different way and are now very understandably miles ahead.

This is the part of the movie where we all realize Reason is the love of our life, and all this time we've been pining over other DAWs, Reason is the one who was always there for us ...

[plaamook]

Quite right. I've been thinking this for a while now, as people go on and on about how no one listens etc. Just ain't true is it.
Recording/audio editing, VSTs, REs, midi out!!! (ye gods...remember that shit?)
(Half baked) Recycle integration, RRP
It's all in there now.
MP3 export, hi res, new devices... all that's left is the sequencer!
And of course RX Connect...(shit's so dope)

This is the part of the movie where we all realize Reason is the love of our life, and all this time we've been pining over other DAWs, Reason is the one who was always there for us ...

Too be fair most of these things get implemented in some half assed way that's never quite on the money, but I thought I'd try my hand at being really positive about the whole thing.

[PhillipOrdonez]

you both just explained how it is to settle for less just because it has always been there for you and your options have run slim at the end of the day

[plaamook]

you both just explained how it is to settle for less just because it has always been there for you and your options have run slim at the end of the day

No need to pay more or subscribe to anything. The new Reason+ always has more than... something. You just need to think positively!

[altron]

you both just explained how it is to settle for less just because it has always been there for you and your options have run slim at the end of the day

No need to pay more or subscribe to anything. The new Reason+ always has more than... something. You just need to think positively!

Yeah just step in line already to the new world of subscription-only! But before that, read what I had to say in another similar thread about the subscription model:

People who think the subscription model of any software is a good thing or that the developer does this to make it cheaper and more palpable for you don't get it do they? Reason Studios, like any other company is profit driven and you're going to be the cattle that will be milked every month for using the software! The subscription business model is fine-tuned on expecting users to forget their subscription even if not used to milk extra profit out of it. The fewest users cancel their subscription on time if they don't use the software for a while, even less so in the creative act of creating music where inspiration can strike at any time and you're going to rely on staying subscribed. Most users who have to subscribe to use a software are either late in canceling subscription or are too lazy and let it run anyway, even if not used. The companies know this and that's why more and more go full subscription-only. You're the tools that are being exploited.

And even if the software is cheaper as a subscription than buying the full product for the time being, that's only temporary. Once the company has fully established and ultimately enforced it's subscription-only business model they can do whatever they like, drive the price higher slowly over time (many companies did that). You're never going to get back to the freedom of purchasing the software at once and be in peace instead of the pressure of having to pay a monthly fee to use your favorite software.