Don't they want our money anymore?

[ShelLuser]

Hi gang,

I apologize up front, really... but... So it's Friday evening, I had 1 beer too much (another following) and having a good time in my home studio playing with a sampled version of a Stradivarus violin & Chello. These days the Reason rack is part of my setup and.. wasn't there some shop link on the main page? It's only Reason+, Stories and support now.

So I clicked stories and noticed mention of Synapse, I became a huge fan of their after seeing them in an official video:

(all time classic!)

... but where the heck is the shop?!

I googled. And I found ... <drumroll> Synapse Obsession page. Wait a second: did they mention NKS support?!! And it only costs me E 89,- vs. the E 99 I have to pay in the Reason shop?! Proof (yes, I eventually found it).

Why the heck would I want to pay E 10 more only to be limited to Reason vs. having a VST which I can use in Live, Reason and ... (wait for it....) ... with full NKS support with my Maschine!?

Are we sure they still want to sell stuff here?! Why would I spend E 10 more to get a whole lot less?

"Please buy the Synapse synth for E 10 extra and as a reward we'll make sure you won't be able to use it in Live, any Native Instruments environment, but only in your trusted Reason setup". (small print: pay E 10 less and you'll be able to use it in Live, Maschine (and all other NI controlling setups), the Reason DAW, any other DAW of your choosing, but not the Reason rack plugin, and we all want that, right?!"

Has Reason really became this stupid? Yah.. I think I'm seriously done here right now, they can <self-censor> me for trying to RIP ME OFF. I am SO much done.... the extra cash is gonna be donated to this amazing forum (no small talk, look up 'Wageningen' within the next hours) and.. I am so much done right now... this is pathetic.

</rant>

(with apologies.. I am honestly pissed off right now which is no excuse but... I don't think I did anything wrong)

[Emian]

it get's even better;

Synapse will give you a FREE license for Obsesion RE if you send them your Reason username. believe me, i did it as soon as the VST was released last year.
They also dit so with "Legend", free crossgrades between versions

[EnochLight]

Why the heck would I want to pay E 10 more only to be limited to Reason (RE) vs. having a VST which I can use in Live, Reason and ... (wait for it....) ... with full NKS support with my Maschine!?

Because believe it or not - there are still Reason users out there who prefer to just use Rack Extensions and refuse to use VST. Also, not everyone has an NKS supported controller, nor cares about one.

Has Reason really became this stupid? Yah.. I think I'm seriously done here right now, they can <self-censor> me for trying to RIP ME OFF.

Reason Studios? No one is trying to rip you off - you can easily buy the VST from Synapse and go on your merry way. It's been dragged out and done to death why RE's often cost more than their VST counterpart. Search the millions of old forum threads from years ago to find out why after you're done drinking and can actually think straight. And yeah, some VST makers will give you the RE at a discount or free if you buy the VST direct from them. Go for it!

[challism]

The shop page has been buried since the launch of R+ and I agree it is a really stupid move. They should put the link to the shop at the top of the page, where it used to be. They said they will do that.... eventually. They are still excited about R+ as they should be, but not at the expense of perpetual licenses or 3rd party developers. The burial of the shop link isn't a "new" thing, though. Speaking of old things, what's the reason for putting that old Pulsar video in your post? I don't understand the connection.

As for your second concern, the pricing of REs is done by developers, so the question is better directed to Synapse, not RS. If I had to guess, I would say Synapse priced the RE higher to offset the cut that RS takes from REs. You will find, though that many developers with VSTs have the REs priced lower than their VST counterparts (not always the case), which is pretty cool, if you ask me. And, again, it goes back to developers' preference.

after you're done drinking and can actually think straight.

Ha ha ha.... this thread started off by telling us he's had one too many beers.... in hind sight, I probably should have just left it alone after reading that.

[EnochLight]

Speaking of old things, what's the reason for putting that old Pulsar video in your post? I don't understand the connection.

That's the beer.

[challism]

it get's even better;

Synapse will give you a FREE license for Obsesion RE if you send them your Reason username. believe me, i did it as soon as the VST was released last year.
They also dit so with "Legend", free crossgrades between versions

Wait a minute.... just by sending them my username? No proof of purchase! Sweeeet!

Speaking of old things, what's the reason for putting that old Pulsar video in your post? I don't understand the connection.

That's the beer.

AH yes, the age-old connection maker... alcohol.

[Emian]

Wait a minute.... just by sending them my username? No proof of purchase! Sweeeet!

of course that's required as well, still very kind of them

[ShelLuser]

Speaking of old things, what's the reason for putting that old Pulsar video in your post? I don't understand the connection.

That's the beer.

But... sorta, there's a bit more...

6:20 "Let's add a little analog character by sending it through the Synapse AF-4 Analog filter". I got the whole Synapse pack when I could afford it and...

Because believe it or not - there are still Reason users out there who prefer to just use Rack Extensions and refuse to use VST. Also, not everyone has an NKS supported controller, nor cares about one.

yah, despite my rant up there there was value in getting an RE back in the days. It was cheaper, you knew you were "limited" to Reason but... lol... limited? I think not! Not in those days... I own Legend and some more synths as RE's and I am honestly happy about 'm.

I guess the reason I got pissed off in this thread (other than paying more for less) is also the context: back then I paid less for RE's but still had Reason's solid sequencer which I could use (I was a ReWire junkie back in the days). These days you only have the RRP.

pfff, I had to let off some steam. Thanks guys!

In the mean time I snagged Obsession, and yah... I can use it in Live either through Maschine (or natively) but I prefer with MIDI input from the RRP (so far Reason's step sequencer (or its players) are unmatched).

I am not going to bother Synapse with any cross grades, but thanks for mentioning it!

[VIVIsect]

Wait a minute.... just by sending them my username? No proof of purchase! Sweeeet!

When I bought the Synapse RE bundle awhile back, I emailed them about a crossgrade to The Legend VST. They asked for a screenshot of my receipt, but I had already deleted the email. I just sent them a screenshot of my Reason account, showing The Legend listed in my owned products, and they sent me a license. Pretty cool.

[challism]

I'm still kicking myself for not moving on that $50 Synapse bundle sale. I only have 2 of their REs and would like to own them all. That $50 deal was worth Antidote or Legend alone. (of course it didn't include Obsession, being offered before its release)

[MrFigg]

I'm still kicking myself for not moving on that $50 Synapse bundle sale. I only have 2 of their REs and would like to own them all. That $50 deal was worth Antidote or Legend alone. (of course it didn't include Obsession, being offered before its release)

Im still kicking myself that I bought all of their REs except Legend before the bundle was on sale at €50. Swings and roundabouts.

[OverneathTheSkyBridg]

I'm still kicking myself for not moving on that $50 Synapse bundle sale. I only have 2 of their REs and would like to own them all. That $50 deal was worth Antidote or Legend alone. (of course it didn't include Obsession, being offered before its release)

Yeah, I saw that sale and jumped on it immediately, even though I sword to myself I was done buying REs. Glad I did though, that was pretty much unignorable... hope they have a sale like that again for you.

[DaveyG]

Also, not everyone has an NKS supported controller, nor cares about one.

It's a bit of an aside but NKS is useful even if you don't have a Komplete keyboard. The Komplete Kontrol software is free and allows you to browse and audition all your NKS presets without loading up a plugin. Then when you do load it up you can use any controller with knobs to tweak the common parameters. Just teach it 8 knobs and 6 buttons once and every NKS supported plugin will automatically map sensible stuff to them. There are even NKS files for the Eurpoa VST. It's also got some nice scale, chord and arp stuff built-in. Just another tool in the toolbox.

[EdwardKiy]

... this is pathetic.

I feel you buddy. Every time I have a beer and coincidentally think about RS, I have this fantasy that their office is a set of corridors filled with showers, so the employees could wash down the shame and self-disgust at any moment they get. All reflective surfaces are prohibited too. There are only two chairs in the whole building as there are only two people working - one for the company psychiatrist and another for the single coder in the basement. But the smell coming up from the basement is vile. Nobody fed or checked on the coder in years because of all the budget cuts they had to make for water use and the on-staff shrink developed severe trichotillomania.

[aeox]

... this is pathetic.

I feel you buddy. Every time I have a beer and coincidentally think about RS, I have this fantasy that their office is a set of corridors filled with showers, so the employees could wash down the shame and self-disgust at any moment they get. All reflective surfaces are prohibited too. There are only two chairs in the whole building as there are only two people working - one for the company psychiatrist and another for the single coder in the basement. But the smell coming up from the basement is vile. Nobody fed or checked on the coder in years because of all the budget cuts they had to make for water use and the on-staff shrink developed severe trichotillomania.

Your pessimism can't be healthy.

One thing I notice from a few of the doomers on the forum and one thing they all share, is their misery. If one doesn't like something that much, it's not healthy to continue being involved in it. I'd rather be optimistic and wrong

[PhillipOrdonez]

I hope you don't wake up with a hangover, ShelLuser!

[EdwardKiy]

Your pessimism can't be healthy.

One thing I notice from a few of the doomers on the forum and one thing they all share, is their misery. If one doesn't like something that much, it's not healthy to continue being involved in it. I'd rather be optimistic and wrong

Man your post is such a treat! Thank you!

I've stated a fantasy, not an outlook and I'm actually an avid sanguinic, but I'll happily entertain your supposition of me being a pessimist. You see, pessimism is both an outlook and a defense/coping mechanism. It reduces anxiety. For that very reason it happens to be healthy. You can look it up.

Holding a belief with strong conviction contrary to strong supporting evidence, on the other hand, is called a delusion and is characteristic of psychiatric disorders, mostly of the schizophrenic spectrum.
If such belief is not held with strong conviction, but still contrary to supporting evidence, this indicates a lack of judgement and intellectual immaturity. A medical term for that is "fool".

In rusian there's a special saying for these overly-optimistic people, roughly translates as: "spit in their face - it's all heavenly dew".

Your suggestion of quitting anything as soon as you don't like it anymore is rather defeatist because it means quitting anything that is unstable, which includes pretty much everything. Relationships, health issues, aging, parenting, any goals, the process of acquisition of skill, wealth etc. What was your definition of misery again?

[orthodox]

Holding a belief with strong conviction contrary to strong supporting evidence, on the other hand, is called a delusion and is characteristic of psychiatric disorders, mostly of the schizophrenic spectrum.
If such belief is not held with strong conviction, but still contrary to supporting evidence, this indicates a lack of judgement and intellectual immaturity. A medical term for that is "fool".

What evidence are you talking about? It's just your point against ours, and I've yet to see the actual vote numbers; your side just happens to be the loudest. I see the same few people here and there spreading their discontent.

In rusian there's a special saying for these overly-optimistic people, roughly translates as: "spit in their face - it's all heavenly dew".

If you spit at the society, they will wipe it off. What if the society spits at you?

Your suggestion of quitting anything as soon as you don't like it anymore is rather defeatist because it means quitting anything that is unstable, which includes pretty much everything. Relationships, health issues, aging, parenting, any goals, the process of acquisition of skill, wealth etc. What was your definition of misery again?

It's not the talk about problems or difficulties. You're just going too far with your metaphores, which shows the degree of your dislike. Any wife hearing such fantasies would consider that a divorce proposal. Besides, spreading this dark vision and dirt does an actual damage to the company name and may discourage other potential users.

[EdwardKiy]

What evidence are you talking about? It's just your point against ours, and I've yet to see the actual vote numbers; your side just happens to be the loudest. I see the same few people here and there spreading their discontent.

I'm talking about RS complete disregard for user requests. How much more evidence do you need? Defending your opinion by attributing it to a group which you self-proclaim to represent makes it look like you're grasping for straws in a herding reflex.

If you spit at the society, they will wipe it off. What if the society spits at you?

I have no idea. I am quite well adjusted in the society. Everything I have ever done, I have brought to a success and society has yet to spit on me. So far I have mostly reaped gratitude.

It's not the talk about problems or difficulties. You're just going too far with your metaphores, which shows the degree of your dislike. Any wife hearing such fantasies would consider that a divorce proposal. Besides, spreading this dark vision and dirt does an actual damage to the company name and may discourage other potential users.

My wife quite enjoys my fantasies and my actions even moreso. My metaphors must be perfectly on point - they precisely represent the degree of my disapproval. RS have been asked for freeze and track folders for years, but they got us sample packs which nobody asked for. Nobody. Not a single soul, not one accidental request. Why would anyone show their approval of this? THAT would've been pathological.

Disapproval is not dirt. I say it's light. Remember when you said that a single person's opinion has no power and I argued competency and that a single user can damage a company, to which you basically replied "haha"? So now you agree with me?

[Carpainter]

Your suggestion of quitting anything as soon as you don't like it anymore is rather defeatist because it means quitting anything that is unstable, which includes pretty much everything. Relationships, health issues, aging, parenting, any goals, the process of acquisition of skill, wealth etc. What was your definition of misery again?

Yeah, forcing yourself to feel discomfort is always a better option than seeking pleasure. Hard experiences create hard men, which is why Reason users are cut from a different cloth than the soft men who retreat to standard DAWs. Life is meaningless without constant struggle, and Reason supplies us with the Recommended Daily Allowance (as prescribed by Tolstoy) of struggle.

[Billy+]

Ah drunken ramblings always best to get it off your chest than to bottle it up.

But the answer is a simple one, yes they want your money they need the subs.

[aeox]

I've stated a fantasy, not an outlook and I'm actually an avid sanguinic, but I'll happily entertain your supposition of me being a pessimist. You see, pessimism is both an outlook and a defense/coping mechanism. It reduces anxiety. For that very reason it happens to be healthy. You can look it up.

I won't agrue that pessimism is a coping mechanism but I don't personally see how it reduces anxiety.
You may have stated a fantasy but it shows your outlook regardless.

Holding a belief with strong conviction contrary to strong supporting evidence, on the other hand, is called a delusion and is characteristic of psychiatric disorders, mostly of the schizophrenic spectrum.
If such belief is not held with strong conviction, but still contrary to supporting evidence, this indicates a lack of judgement and intellectual immaturity. A medical term for that is "fool".

The only evidence I'm concerned with is my own experience and enjoyment of using the application. If I wasn't pleased with the service provided, I would most certainly find a different service that filled my needs.
My aunt was schizophrenic, and I see faces in patterns where most people do not.. so, who knows? Will give you an update in a few years if I start seeing demons.

In rusian there's a special saying for these overly-optimistic people, roughly translates as: "spit in their face - it's all heavenly dew".

If you were familiar with my opinions I've stated in the past, you wouldn't think I'm overly-optimistic at all! (I was very vocal when they were releasing devices like humana, umpf, etc) And I wouldn't even say that I'm being *super* optimistic now. Reason already has everything needed to make any kind of music you want and to let your imagination run wild.
Without you going into the details of what you're so worried about, I can't really comment further on that with any significant meaning.

Your suggestion of quitting anything as soon as you don't like it anymore is rather defeatist because it means quitting anything that is unstable, which includes pretty much everything. Relationships, health issues, aging, parenting, any goals, the process of acquisition of skill, wealth etc. What was your definition of misery again?

I try not to put myself into situations with high probability of becoming unstable in the first place. Preventative, rather than reactive. Have realistic expectations, and see the positives and utilizing them to the best of ones ability.

When you made the decision to purchase the product, you were buying it for what it was at the time. It's your choice to either continue supporting it or not. If other DAWs are offering features that you find more appealing then I don't see why it's out of the ordinary to discontinue your support of the product. Reason Studios know what their strengths and weaknesses are, more than most give credit for!

[orthodox]

I'm talking about RS complete disregard for user requests. How much more evidence do you need? Defending your opinion by attributing it to a group which you self-proclaim to represent makes it look like you're grasping for straws in a herding reflex.

What disregard? I see it as they carefully hear everyone then decide on the priorities. It's their discretion, after all. You're making it look like you're(customers are) the boss. Once RS have chosen something to implement, you pick the other thing and whine upon it, accusing them of disregard, completely ignoring their limited resources and thus the reality. Looks like if they owed you something.
And I'm far from pretending to form any groups, I'm just describing two types of attitude I observe.

My wife quite enjoys my fantasies and my actions even moreso. My metaphors must be perfectly on point - they precisely represent the degree of my disapproval. RS have been asked for freeze and track folders for years, but they got us sample packs which nobody asked for. Nobody. Not a single soul, not one accidental request. Why would anyone show their approval of this? THAT would've been pathological.

Disapproval is not dirt. I say it's light. Remember when you said that a single person's opinion has no power and I argued competency and that a single user can damage a company, to which you basically replied "haha"? So now you agree with me?

Okay, so throwing shit at someone/something is no longer a dirt, it's a light if it's done in the name of disapproval. Just so that everyone would see them in new light.
Yes I remember that talk about damage. I meant that you couldn't cause a scandal in the existing Reason community. But you could of course pour the dirt on the facade, so that would influence the new users' decision.
As for the packs, they're just not for us, they're for attracting new users. They don't compete for the company resources with feature development. Even if the packs don't work for making music, they're still worth it if they engage more people to come to Reason.

[guitfnky]

I know sometimes I can be super annoying, but it’s comforting to know I can always look back on the posts of some here and find comments that are even more insufferable.

[integerpoet]

I know sometimes I can be super annoying, but it’s comforting to know I can always look back on the posts of some here and find comments that are even more insufferable.

I second that emotion.