reason 12 beta

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
User avatar
orthodox
RE Developer
Posts: 1648
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 12 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
12 Jul 2021
orthodox wrote:
12 Jul 2021


There are sorts of "Meh". "Meh" in response to a closed beta version is a disclosure. While not telling anything particular, it can sway people's opinions - probably the very reason why the beta testing was closed in the first place.

When I play card games, any word outside the protocol can tell something about the cards dealt.
yes, but “a disclosure” doesn’t mean anything unless it’s covered by the NDA. “I’ve had two cups of coffee” is a disclosure. I can’t imagine it’s even possible to make that kind of thing covered by an NDA. that’s thought police type stuff.
I couldn't find any legal NDA on beta testing. They just say "please, don't share ANY information", so it's more of a voluntary moral obligation for me. I don't know if the breach would have consequences, like they may not choose you for beta testing next time. So no thought policing, just an opinion.
Active Reason+ subscriber with the attested early R12 access
Reason 11 Suite gathering dust on the shelf

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3619
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 12 Jul 2021

orthodox wrote:
12 Jul 2021
guitfnky wrote:
12 Jul 2021


yes, but “a disclosure” doesn’t mean anything unless it’s covered by the NDA. “I’ve had two cups of coffee” is a disclosure. I can’t imagine it’s even possible to make that kind of thing covered by an NDA. that’s thought police type stuff.
I couldn't find any legal NDA on beta testing. They just say "please, don't share ANY information", so it's more of a voluntary moral obligation for me. I don't know if the breach would have consequences, like they may not choose you for beta testing next time. So no thought policing, just an opinion.
understood—apologies if it came across like I was suggesting you were the thought police, that wasn’t my intention. I just meant that if a company tried to do something like that, it would seem that way to me.

I suppose for the “any information” bit, that’s vague enough for there to be different interpretations. my interpretation is that it means any info relevant to the actual product, and it seems your position is more that it’s any info that is a result of the product in any way. seems like a reasonable viewpoint, even if I disagree with it.

m.arthur
Posts: 99
Joined: 21 Oct 2017

Post 12 Jul 2021

orthodox wrote:
12 Jul 2021


There are sorts of "Meh". "Meh" in response to a closed beta version is a disclosure.
Uh, no. Just no. It's a disclosure of an opinion, not of any information about the product being tested. It's also completely meaningless. There's not a chance in a million that RS would boot a beta tester for saying "I feel meh about it" on grounds of "disclosing info about the beta."

strange_scenery
Posts: 44
Joined: 05 Nov 2020

Post 12 Jul 2021

m.arthur wrote:
12 Jul 2021
orthodox wrote:
12 Jul 2021


There are sorts of "Meh". "Meh" in response to a closed beta version is a disclosure.
Uh, no. Just no. It's a disclosure of an opinion, not of any information about the product being tested. It's also completely meaningless. There's not a chance in a million that RS would boot a beta tester for saying "I feel meh about it" on grounds of "disclosing info about the beta."
The point of the beta is to find bugs, not create negative PR. If people can't refrain from talking about the beta publicly the program might get cancelled and then everyone loses—there will be more bugs in Reason and users don't get to try out new features early. Or they can hire more professional testers and pass the increased costs onto the consumer.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3619
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 12 Jul 2021

strange_scenery wrote:
12 Jul 2021
m.arthur wrote:
12 Jul 2021


Uh, no. Just no. It's a disclosure of an opinion, not of any information about the product being tested. It's also completely meaningless. There's not a chance in a million that RS would boot a beta tester for saying "I feel meh about it" on grounds of "disclosing info about the beta."
The point of the beta is to find bugs, not create negative PR. If people can't refrain from talking about the beta publicly the program might get cancelled and then everyone loses—there will be more bugs in Reason and users don't get to try out new features early. Or they can hire more professional testers and pass the increased costs onto the consumer.
calling this “negative PR” seems a bit of a stretch to me. I think it’s meh, in its current state, but it’s a beta—the whole point is that it’s going to change. if users are basing their decision to buy based on a super vague assessment of where it is by a few users who are testing it in an unfinished state, that’s kind of down to their own stupidity. and if RS took that seriously enough to change their testing strategy, well let’s just say that wouldn’t be much of a vote of confidence in the intelligence of their user base either.

strange_scenery
Posts: 44
Joined: 05 Nov 2020

Post 12 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
12 Jul 2021
strange_scenery wrote:
12 Jul 2021


The point of the beta is to find bugs, not create negative PR. If people can't refrain from talking about the beta publicly the program might get cancelled and then everyone loses—there will be more bugs in Reason and users don't get to try out new features early. Or they can hire more professional testers and pass the increased costs onto the consumer.
calling this “negative PR” seems a bit of a stretch to me. I think it’s meh, in its current state, but it’s a beta—the whole point is that it’s going to change. if users are basing their decision to buy based on a super vague assessment of where it is by a few users who are testing it in an unfinished state, that’s kind of down to their own stupidity. and if RS took that seriously enough to change their testing strategy, well let’s just say that wouldn’t be much of a vote of confidence in the intelligence of their user base either.
X is making Christmas presents for their kids and asks Y to test them out, but not give any details to the kids. On Dec 23rd Y tells the kids "My opinion of your presents is meh." I didn't reveal any details, that's just my opinion so it's totally allowed. And if it makes anyone disappointed for Christmas you're the one that's stupid for listening to me.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3619
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 12 Jul 2021

strange_scenery wrote:
12 Jul 2021
guitfnky wrote:
12 Jul 2021


calling this “negative PR” seems a bit of a stretch to me. I think it’s meh, in its current state, but it’s a beta—the whole point is that it’s going to change. if users are basing their decision to buy based on a super vague assessment of where it is by a few users who are testing it in an unfinished state, that’s kind of down to their own stupidity. and if RS took that seriously enough to change their testing strategy, well let’s just say that wouldn’t be much of a vote of confidence in the intelligence of their user base either.
X is making Christmas presents for their kids and asks Y to test them out, but not give any details to the kids. On Dec 23rd Y tells the kids "My opinion of your presents is meh." I didn't reveal any details, that's just my opinion so it's totally allowed. And if it makes anyone disappointed for Christmas you're the one that's stupid for listening to me.
except beta testers aren’t parents/adults, and the rest of users are hopefully more mature than these fictional kids.

and if the toys are great, despite this, then nobody should be disappointed.

but yeah, not a great analogy.

strange_scenery
Posts: 44
Joined: 05 Nov 2020

Post 12 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
12 Jul 2021
strange_scenery wrote:
12 Jul 2021


X is making Christmas presents for their kids and asks Y to test them out, but not give any details to the kids. On Dec 23rd Y tells the kids "My opinion of your presents is meh." I didn't reveal any details, that's just my opinion so it's totally allowed. And if it makes anyone disappointed for Christmas you're the one that's stupid for listening to me.
except beta testers aren’t parents/adults, and the rest of users are hopefully more mature than these fictional kids.

and if the toys are great, despite this, then nobody should be disappointed.

but yeah, not a great analogy.
Agree to disagree then. My opinion is that what you say and do matters and if I'm understanding correctly you believe the opposite, and if we can't agree on that we can't make any more progress.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3619
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 12 Jul 2021

strange_scenery wrote:
12 Jul 2021
guitfnky wrote:
12 Jul 2021


except beta testers aren’t parents/adults, and the rest of users are hopefully more mature than these fictional kids.

and if the toys are great, despite this, then nobody should be disappointed.

but yeah, not a great analogy.
Agree to disagree then. My opinion is that what you say and do matters and if I'm understanding correctly you believe the opposite, and if we can't agree on that we can't make any more progress.
matters? sure—opinions matter, but should be taken with a huge grain of salt (especially if you’re talking about an unfinished product). makes a substantive difference? not so much.

User avatar
LittleBoy
Posts: 18
Joined: 22 Jun 2019

Post 13 Jul 2021

Hi.

Anything about VST 3.0 support on Reason 12? Any news about it?

I think if they don't implement it this time, I'll switch to another DAW.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3619
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 13 Jul 2021

LittleBoy wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Hi.

Anything about VST 3.0 support on Reason 12? Any news about it?

I think if they don't implement it this time, I'll switch to another DAW.
I'm not aware of any work on this--I wouldn't expect it to be there in 12, at launch. may get added at some point along the way, but I don't think that's a big priority for RS at this point, especially considering they seem to be shifting to a 'Reason is a plugin first' mindset, where you'd be using it in more feature-complete DAWs. unfortunately. 😔

User avatar
LittleBoy
Posts: 18
Joined: 22 Jun 2019

Post 13 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
13 Jul 2021
LittleBoy wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Hi.

Anything about VST 3.0 support on Reason 12? Any news about it?

I think if they don't implement it this time, I'll switch to another DAW.
I'm not aware of any work on this--I wouldn't expect it to be there in 12, at launch. may get added at some point along the way, but I don't think that's a big priority for RS at this point, especially considering they seem to be shifting to a 'Reason is a plugin first' mindset, where you'd be using it in more feature-complete DAWs. unfortunately. 😔
Thanks.

I think that in 2021 the support for VST 3.0 is already a priority for any DAW. And I think we have been too patient. Every so often I come across a tool that I can't use in Reason for this reason. And before someone tells me that there are ways to load VST 3 or AU into Reason, I don't want external add-ons, for that I pay for my license to Reason Studios.

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3619
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 13 Jul 2021

LittleBoy wrote:
13 Jul 2021
guitfnky wrote:
13 Jul 2021


I'm not aware of any work on this--I wouldn't expect it to be there in 12, at launch. may get added at some point along the way, but I don't think that's a big priority for RS at this point, especially considering they seem to be shifting to a 'Reason is a plugin first' mindset, where you'd be using it in more feature-complete DAWs. unfortunately. 😔
Thanks.

I think that in 2021 the support for VST 3.0 is already a priority for any DAW. And I think we have been too patient. Every so often I come across a tool that I can't use in Reason for this reason. And before someone tells me that there are ways to load VST 3 or AU into Reason, I don't want external add-ons, for that I pay for my license to Reason Studios.
yep, I’m with you—it’s not a huge priority for me personally, but it really is long overdue, and I’m not interested in using other plugins to hack around the problem either.

kbard
Posts: 28
Joined: 05 Jun 2021

Post 13 Jul 2021

Hi guys. Small bug in Reason 12 (non beta).

Yesterday I downloaded Reason + trial on my second computer. And it told me to install Reason 12 (stable).

I went for it, to see hires graphic which really is amazing change.

There is this silly graphical glitch in MClass Maximizer where left activity LEDs are going nuts. You can see that they are skipping frames and they are going up and down. I am not speaking about on off state. Whole LEDs are dancing up and down.

I am not in their beta so not sure is this reported or not. Can someone report there?

NOTE: it happens at 160% zoom. At 180% it's not skipping, but at 180% GAIN leds are skipping :)

gif attached
led-issue.gif
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by kbard on 13 Jul 2021, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 2340
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 13 Jul 2021

kbard wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Hi guys. Small bug in Reason 12 (non beta).

Yesterday I downloaded Reason + trial on my second computer. And it told me to install Reason 12 (stable).

I went for it, to see hires graphic which really is amazing change.

There is this silly graphical glitch in MClass Maximizer where left activity LEDs are going nuts. You can see that they are skipping frames and they are going up and down. I am not speaking about on off state. Whole LEDs are dancing up and down.

I am not in their beta so not sure is this reported or not. Can someone report there?

gif attached

led-issue.gif
You can report it via a ticket using your account, make sure you include the gif as evidence
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

kbard
Posts: 28
Joined: 05 Jun 2021

Post 13 Jul 2021

Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021

You can report it via a ticket using your account, make sure you include the gif as evidence
Ah yess right.

I also noticed skipping leds on Scream (at 180%).

Will do

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 2340
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 13 Jul 2021

kbard wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021

You can report it via a ticket using your account, make sure you include the gif as evidence
Ah yess right.

I also noticed skipping leds on Scream (at 180%).

Will do
With any luck all these teething issues will be fixed for September release.

Make sure you include as much information as possible about your system (CPU GPU) are you running the latest graphics driver ?
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

User avatar
nickb523
RE Developer
Posts: 299
Joined: 23 Jan 2017
Location: Scotland

Post 13 Jul 2021

kbard wrote:
13 Jul 2021


There is this silly graphical glitch in MClass Maximizer where left activity LEDs are going nuts. You can see that they are skipping frames and they are going up and down. I am not speaking about on off state. Whole LEDs are dancing up and down.

I am not in their beta so not sure is this reported or not. Can someone report there?

NOTE: it happens at 160% zoom. At 180% it's not skipping, but at 180% GAIN leds are skipping :)

Reason 12 is very much early access at this point. If you look close enough you'll find issues like this all over the place. For example, lots of devices have knobs and sliders that are at off by a few pixels and the amount they are off by changes with zoom level. Some assets never kick into high resolution at all. Some of the displays are cut off at the top (rv7000 has this). There is a ton of stuff still to be fixed so I would very much consider it an early access beta.

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 2340
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 13 Jul 2021

nickb523 wrote:
13 Jul 2021
kbard wrote:
13 Jul 2021


There is this silly graphical glitch in MClass Maximizer where left activity LEDs are going nuts. You can see that they are skipping frames and they are going up and down. I am not speaking about on off state. Whole LEDs are dancing up and down.

I am not in their beta so not sure is this reported or not. Can someone report there?

NOTE: it happens at 160% zoom. At 180% it's not skipping, but at 180% GAIN leds are skipping :)

Reason 12 is very much early access at this point. If you look close enough you'll find issues like this all over the place. For example, lots of devices have knobs and sliders that are at off by a few pixels and the amount they are off by changes with zoom level. Some assets never kick into high resolution at all. Some of the displays are cut off at the top (rv7000 has this). There is a ton of stuff still to be fixed so I would very much consider it an early access beta.
You don't usually have to pay to use beta software, why has it been released if these issues exist surely that should have been spotted during the actual beta testing and not rolled out to paying customers.

I would be very disappointed at £20 a month to find out I had been turned into a beta tester especially as there's a separate process to become one which clearly has been avoided by the poster....
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

User avatar
nickb523
RE Developer
Posts: 299
Joined: 23 Jan 2017
Location: Scotland

Post 13 Jul 2021

Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021

You don't usually have to pay to use beta software, why has it been released if these issues exist surely that should have been spotted during the actual beta testing and not rolled out to paying customers.

I would be very disappointed at £20 a month to find out I had been turned into a beta tester especially as there's a separate process to become one which clearly has been avoided by the poster....
IMHO there is absolutely nothing wrong with marketing and selling an "early access" version. It's an everyday thing in the games industry so why not here? Getting early access is quite cool if you are into that sort of thing and you can still use V11 if you want to wait it out. It needs to be clearly labelled as such though to make sure expectations are in check.

User avatar
Billy+
Posts: 2340
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 13 Jul 2021

nickb523 wrote:
13 Jul 2021
IMHO there is absolutely nothing wrong with marketing and selling an "early access" version. It's an everyday thing in the games industry so why not here? Getting early access is quite cool if you are into that sort of thing and you can still use V11 if you want to wait it out. It needs to be clearly labelled as such though to make sure expectations are in check.
I guess what your saying is true for the games industry but for productivity based software using a subscription model it's a we bit smelly especially as it was released as stable not beta, I guess "early access" could be seen in a few different ways but I don't know...... seeing some of the chatter on the internet just lately it would have been better to release a solid product early to subscription customers than one that has known issues, or is it more important to release something / anything just to make a claim?
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

User avatar
guitfnky
Posts: 3619
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 13 Jul 2021

nickb523 wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021

You don't usually have to pay to use beta software, why has it been released if these issues exist surely that should have been spotted during the actual beta testing and not rolled out to paying customers.

I would be very disappointed at £20 a month to find out I had been turned into a beta tester especially as there's a separate process to become one which clearly has been avoided by the poster....
IMHO there is absolutely nothing wrong with marketing and selling an "early access" version. It's an everyday thing in the games industry so why not here? Getting early access is quite cool if you are into that sort of thing and you can still use V11 if you want to wait it out. It needs to be clearly labelled as such though to make sure expectations are in check.
but Reason+ isn’t in “early access”. it’s a full featured piece of software that people pay a subscription fee every month for, that they should be able to rely on. it would be fine if they had it in this state as a separate installation so you have your stable 11 version alongside the early access 12 version, but that’s not what this is. their approach is kind of baffling to be honest—there IS a separate version out that people can use in early access—it’s called the beta.

User avatar
nickb523
RE Developer
Posts: 299
Joined: 23 Jan 2017
Location: Scotland

Post 13 Jul 2021

Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021

I guess what your saying is true for the games industry but for productivity based software using a subscription model it's a we bit smelly especially as it was released as stable not beta, I guess "early access" could be seen in a few different ways but I don't know...... seeing some of the chatter on the internet just lately it would have been better to release a solid product early to subscription customers than one that has known issues, or is it more important to release something / anything just to make a claim?
It does actually state on facebook that it's early access but I don't see it on the website - I agree that it isn't clear enough overall.

Honestly I don't know. Had it been my decision I'd have kept it under wraps for a while longer to iron out the more glaring issues. It's not ready for prime time IMHO.

It's also super irritating from a dev standpoint as many devices have a janky appearance that isn't our fault. If the RE's look fine in v11 and in 4k images spat out of RE2D then they should look fine in v12, but they don't. Biggest issue I'm seeing is knobs moving around based on zoom level which I cant do jack all about.

User avatar
EpiGenetik
Posts: 391
Joined: 19 Jan 2015
Location: Glasgow, EU

Post 13 Jul 2021

Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021
...especially as it was released as stable not beta...
Minor graphics glitches do not count as instability. Stability would typically relate to crashes etc.

Note that there is a market demographic here at play, that of the early adopter, have a look at this:
https://ondigitalmarketing.com/learn/od ... -adoption/
N.B. Innovators aren't present in the RS scenario, as that stage was 20 years ago for Reason.

cheers,
B

User avatar
nickb523
RE Developer
Posts: 299
Joined: 23 Jan 2017
Location: Scotland

Post 13 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
13 Jul 2021
it would be fine if they had it in this state as a separate installation so you have your stable 11 version alongside the early access 12 version, but that’s not what this is.
I agree. This would be a much better way of dealing with the early access approach.

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Biolumin3sc3nt, CommonCrawl [Bot] and 6 guests