reason 12 beta

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Billy+
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Post 13 Jul 2021

nickb523 wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021

I guess what your saying is true for the games industry but for productivity based software using a subscription model it's a we bit smelly especially as it was released as stable not beta, I guess "early access" could be seen in a few different ways but I don't know...... seeing some of the chatter on the internet just lately it would have been better to release a solid product early to subscription customers than one that has known issues, or is it more important to release something / anything just to make a claim?
It does actually state on facebook that it's early access but I don't see it on the website - I agree that it isn't clear enough overall.

Honestly I don't know. Had it been my decision I'd have kept it under wraps for a while longer to iron out the more glaring issues. It's not ready for prime time IMHO.

It's also super irritating from a dev standpoint as many devices have a janky appearance that isn't our fault. If the RE's look fine in v11 and in 4k images spat out of RE2D then they should look fine in v12, but they don't. Biggest issue I'm seeing is knobs moving around based on zoom level which I cant do jack all about.
Well it sounds like we're on the same page then :thumbup:

And although RS might have sold subscription with percs like content packs and early access they are really doing them selves a disservice by releasing 12 at this moment especially when it's clear that they know that the product has issues.

Fix the issues, roll it out 2 weeks before selling licenses and they could still make the claim that subscription got early access, but this way really isn't going to help.

It's a shame to see this happening to a product that I've personally loved and looked forward to using/upgrading for years.....
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

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guitfnky
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Post 13 Jul 2021

I feel like the idea here is for RS to deliver stuff using a more agile methodology—get features out quickly and address stuff as you become aware of it. the problem with that here is that Reason’s brand has been built on stability for so long, having it in a constant state of flux and introducing/fixing bugs along the way is going to take a lot of getting used to. I think they also need to be more engaged with the community to get that to work properly. that said, I do think their communication has improved a bit in the last few months.

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Billy+
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Post 13 Jul 2021

EpiGenetik wrote:
13 Jul 2021

Minor graphics glitches do not count as instability. Stability would typically relate to crashes etc.
I've used Reason since version 1 and it's never crashed so I would argue with that, knowing that a release has visible issues and releasing it just to fulfill a claim of early access is just plain wrong and a shame for all the people involved from conception and development to marketing and support and let's not forget the most important people in all of this the consumers who are paying....

It's very unfortunate and again slightly disappointing, Reason has always been the standout DAW for me and I'm sure that they will sort it out but I'm not a new customer, I have more confidence than a new customer would ;)
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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Enlightenspeed
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Post 13 Jul 2021

nickb523 wrote:
13 Jul 2021

It's also super irritating from a dev standpoint as many devices have a janky appearance that isn't our fault. If the RE's look fine in v11 and in 4k images spat out of RE2D then they should look fine in v12, but they don't. Biggest issue I'm seeing is knobs moving around based on zoom level which I cant do jack all about.
I've just reported this, as it appears to be every 3rd party RE that it is affecting. I think it might be that 3rd party REs are still in the beta only and not the released version?

Anyway, my understanding of it was that RE2D was going to be removed from the process, and that the GUI2D hi-res images were going to be used for this and just re-rendered etc. I'm not expecting that we have to resubmit anything.

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joeyluck
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Post 13 Jul 2021

I have no issues with the 3rd party REs I've tried. Any screenshots of what you are seeing?

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Billy+
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Post 13 Jul 2021

joeyluck wrote:
13 Jul 2021
I have no issues with the 3rd party REs I've tried. Any screenshots of what you are seeing?
What zoom settings have you tried?

This has been posted so far..
IMG_2769.GIF
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VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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EpiGenetik
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Post 13 Jul 2021

Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021
EpiGenetik wrote:
13 Jul 2021

Minor graphics glitches do not count as instability. Stability would typically relate to crashes etc.
I've used Reason since version 1 and it's never crashed so I would argue with that, knowing that a release has visible issues and releasing it just to fulfill a claim of early access is just plain wrong and a shame for all the people involved from conception and development to marketing and support and let's not forget the most important people in all of this the consumers who are paying....

It's very unfortunate and again slightly disappointing, Reason has always been the standout DAW for me and I'm sure that they will sort it out but I'm not a new customer, I have more confidence than a new customer would ;)
Check out the link I posted, it's highly relevant.

Also note here that no piece of complex software that is released into the world today is entirely bug free. If you know where to look you will find them.

A new customer would never spot these minor gitches, but it is still important to report them to the developer. This is a fact of life for software and is also a ubiquitous consequence of market economies. Space shuttles have bugs in 'em :D TV's have bugs in 'em. Simpler items such as toasters and kettles have "resource bugs" where something or other will break sooner or later as it makes no economic sense for the company making them to ensure that they don't break. You can't blame any one company for acting in the manner that free markets impose on them.

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nickb523
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Post 13 Jul 2021

Enlightenspeed wrote:
13 Jul 2021

I've just reported this, as it appears to be every 3rd party RE that it is affecting. I think it might be that 3rd party REs are still in the beta only and not the released version?

Anyway, my understanding of it was that RE2D was going to be removed from the process, and that the GUI2D hi-res images were going to be used for this and just re-rendered etc. I'm not expecting that we have to resubmit anything.
The knob position issues are present all over the place. It's not that easy to spot as it's only a couple of pixels out depending on the zoom level. It's also present in some RS devices like Scenic -

Capture.PNG

Knobs are all skew-whiff and sliders aren't right either, this often changes depending on the zoom level but not always. Very weird.

Hopefully this is something RS will fix without us buggering about shifting things by a pixel or two here and there. I spent enough time OCD'ing out on that first time round! :lol:
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nebraskafire
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Post 13 Jul 2021

My guess they should handle it like bitwig does. If you re subscriber you can get the beta with different release states to test it until the final release is ready to deliver. Point. So it's clear that is beta and if you work with it it's up to you.

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Enlightenspeed
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Post 13 Jul 2021

nickb523 wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Enlightenspeed wrote:
13 Jul 2021

I've just reported this, as it appears to be every 3rd party RE that it is affecting. I think it might be that 3rd party REs are still in the beta only and not the released version?

Anyway, my understanding of it was that RE2D was going to be removed from the process, and that the GUI2D hi-res images were going to be used for this and just re-rendered etc. I'm not expecting that we have to resubmit anything.
The knob position issues are present all over the place. It's not that easy to spot as it's only a couple of pixels out depending on the zoom level. It's also present in some RS devices like Scenic -


Capture.PNG


Knobs are all skew-whiff and sliders aren't right either, this often changes depending on the zoom level but not always. Very weird.

Hopefully this is something RS will fix without us buggering about shifting things by a pixel or two here and there. I spent enough time OCD'ing out on that first time round! :lol:

ooooohh,

I think I know what's causing this, I'll DM you with the details of how to fix for your own REs :D

Cheers,
Brian

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Billy+
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Post 13 Jul 2021

Enlightenspeed wrote:
13 Jul 2021

ooooohh,

I think I know what's causing this, I'll DM you with the details of how to fix for your own REs :D

Cheers,
Brian
Just a suggestion,

That might be worth posting in the development thread for others....
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

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Enlightenspeed
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Post 13 Jul 2021

Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Just a suggestion,

That might be worth posting in the development thread for others....
Only once it's confirmed.

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Billy+
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Post 13 Jul 2021

Enlightenspeed wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Billy+ wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Just a suggestion,

That might be worth posting in the development thread for others....
Only once it's confirmed.
:clap:
VST 2.4 MIDI It's definitely on the list of todos
Current POLL go vote now

ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ Time for a good long sleep ˁ˚ᴥ˚ˀ

strange_scenery
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Joined: 05 Nov 2020

Post 13 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
12 Jul 2021
strange_scenery wrote:
12 Jul 2021


Agree to disagree then. My opinion is that what you say and do matters and if I'm understanding correctly you believe the opposite, and if we can't agree on that we can't make any more progress.
matters? sure—opinions matter, but should be taken with a huge grain of salt (especially if you’re talking about an unfinished product). makes a substantive difference? not so much.
All I've been trying to say is that I think your comment was inappropriate, and I think you realize that as well. People that know they're right argue that what they did was right, and people that know they're wrong argue that what they did wasn't that bad.

Second, from your comments it seems like you are/were excited to try out the new features of Reason, so in that case access to the beta could be seen as a gift, where the only conditions were to not talk about it publicly. So regardless of rules, laws or harm, I hope that I don't have to convince you that the fact you felt the need to comment as well as the content of that comment shows a lack of graciousness and appreciation.

Third, the person that causes harm doesn't get to decide how much harm was caused. If I insult you I don't get to decide how hurt you are allowed to feel. You might think RS is a giant monolith corporation, but in reality it is a small company with 30-60 employees. At least three of them frequent this forum, so that's already 5%-10% of the company, and the actual percentage might be quite a bit higher. If you remember it was only this year when they decided to be more transparent with release dates, features, and opening up the beta to all license holders. It's not inevitable that this continues, and if I were them I would be monitoring social media, Reason Talk, KVR, vi-control etc. for people's responses. So if the overwhelming response is negative I don't think it's beyond belief that they would at least consider going back to their old way of doing business, where everything is in the dark until the day of release. So if you like the new changes I'm just asking you to try harder not to mess things up. And if you want things to go back to as they were I guess you can just keep doing what you're doing.

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guitfnky
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Post 13 Jul 2021

strange_scenery wrote:
13 Jul 2021
a warm huff of air
😂 well, thank you for setting me straight on the error of my ways. I'm clearly a terrible human being, bereft of consideration for anyone other than my own pitiful self.

and 'overwhelming response is negative'? 2 people said the word "meh". come on, man. 😆

there are so few employees at this small, spunky startup of a company, yet apparently they should be assigning some of them to monitor various websites for the stuff people post. seems like a good use of resources, when you're concerned about such things.

in all seriousness, I hope RS are a lot less thin-skinned about this than that, and having interacted with them on this forum, I'm quite confident that they are.

strange_scenery
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Joined: 05 Nov 2020

Post 13 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
13 Jul 2021
😂 well, thank you for setting me straight on the error of my ways. I'm clearly a terrible human being, bereft of consideration for anyone other than my own pitiful self.

and 'overwhelming response is negative'? 2 people said the word "meh". come on, man. 😆

there are so few employees at this small, spunky startup of a company, yet apparently they should be assigning some of them to monitor various websites for the stuff people post. seems like a good use of resources, when you're concerned about such things.

in all seriousness, I hope RS are a lot less thin-skinned about this than that, and having interacted with them on this forum, I'm quite confident that they are.
I don't think you are a terrible person, and if you were to re-read my comments I never said that you were. I didn't say the overwhelming response was negative, I said IF the overwhelming response was negative. And responses come one comment/person at a time. Mattias, Ryan and James already read and reply to comments here so I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Most companies that are some degree of tech savvy have someone to monitor social media, frequently that is an intern or an entry level position, that is not unusual, just do a job search for social media manager.

It is very strange how you keep insisting no one cares about your opinion, which begs the question, why are you so insistent to give it? Also something to consider is that people only have to be thick skinned if they get treated badly.

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guitfnky
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Post 13 Jul 2021

strange_scenery wrote:
13 Jul 2021
where did I insist no one cares about my opinion? 🤔 given that we’re still talking about it, I know of at least one person who does. as for why—it’s a forum—for people to discuss stuff, like, you know, opinions—like we’re doing right now.

and that last point I agree with! seems you’re suggesting I’m not treating RS badly—glad we’re on the same page there. it would take an awfully thin-skinned company to stop their beta practices based on some perceived slight over a handful of unenthusiastic comments on an internet forum somewhere.

strange_scenery
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Post 13 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
13 Jul 2021
strange_scenery wrote:
13 Jul 2021
where did I insist no one cares about my opinion? 🤔 given that we’re still talking about it, I know of at least one person who does. as for why—it’s a forum—for people to discuss stuff, like, you know, opinions—like we’re doing right now.

and that last point I agree with! seems you’re suggesting I’m not treating RS badly—glad we’re on the same page there. it would take an awfully thin-skinned company to stop their beta practices based on some perceived slight over a handful of unenthusiastic comments on an internet forum somewhere.
It has nothing to do with skin thickness, all I've been trying to say this entire time is that they are trying something new with this beta program, it's not inevitable that they keep doing it, and based on how well they think it went is going to decide if they keep doing it or if they go back to what they were doing before.

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guitfnky
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Post 13 Jul 2021

strange_scenery wrote:
13 Jul 2021
It has nothing to do with skin thickness, all I've been trying to say this entire time is that they are trying something new with this beta program, it's not inevitable that they keep doing it, and based on how well they think it went is going to decide if they keep doing it or if they go back to what they were doing before.
I mean, I don’t disagree, but any company worth their salt trying something new should be doing that anyway—I assumed that was a given.

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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 13 Jul 2021

LittleBoy wrote:
13 Jul 2021
Hi.

Anything about VST 3.0 support on Reason 12? Any news about it?

I think if they don't implement it this time, I'll switch to another DAW.
In the comments on that HiRes promo youtube video they said "not for the R12 release. (But I really hope they're even working on it for some 12.x release in 2022.)
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

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Social Exodus
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Post 14 Jul 2021

guitfnky wrote:
13 Jul 2021
strange_scenery wrote:
13 Jul 2021
It has nothing to do with skin thickness, all I've been trying to say this entire time is that they are trying something new with this beta program, it's not inevitable that they keep doing it, and based on how well they think it went is going to decide if they keep doing it or if they go back to what they were doing before.
I mean, I don’t disagree, but any company worth their salt trying something new should be doing that anyway—I assumed that was a given.
All involved,

I never expected the amount of fur that is flying here over my simple comment of "Meh..."

Some have said it would be negative press, but a quick read through this forum reveals that there is already PLENTY of negative commentary contained herein. One would think my one time small potatoes deal would be totally lost in that sauce.

That said, I will keep my thoughts to myself going forward, and see what the finished product turns out to be and then do my talking (or not) with my wallet since I abhor any/all subscription (read: highway robbery) models.

So there you have it, from the progenitor of this minor ordeal's mouth.
:reason: 11 Suite Perpetual License :re: Too many to count :refill: A few choice items

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joeyluck
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Post 19 Jul 2021

Just a heads up to beta testers, start up your beta version of R12 and update it. Head over to the beta forum for more info.

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MrFigg
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Post 19 Jul 2021

joeyluck wrote:
19 Jul 2021
Just a heads up to beta testers, start up your beta version of R12 and update it. Head over to the beta forum for more info.
You know the dev right? You reckon if an update ever does come it’ll be paid? Already went from ABL2 to ABL3 so be nice if it wasn’t. Also got that other Audio Realism Bassline VST which is different but also kind of the same. Now that I’ve asked I guess you probably don’t know the answer.
丰2ॐ

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joeyluck
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Post 19 Jul 2021

MrFigg wrote:
19 Jul 2021
joeyluck wrote:
19 Jul 2021
Just a heads up to beta testers, start up your beta version of R12 and update it. Head over to the beta forum for more info.
You know the dev right? You reckon if an update ever does come it’ll be paid? Already went from ABL2 to ABL3 so be nice if it wasn’t. Also got that other Audio Realism Bassline VST which is different but also kind of the same. Now that I’ve asked I guess you probably don’t know the answer.
I think you replied to the wrong comment in the wrong thread? :D

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MrFigg
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Post 19 Jul 2021

joeyluck wrote:
19 Jul 2021
MrFigg wrote:
19 Jul 2021


You know the dev right? You reckon if an update ever does come it’ll be paid? Already went from ABL2 to ABL3 so be nice if it wasn’t. Also got that other Audio Realism Bassline VST which is different but also kind of the same. Now that I’ve asked I guess you probably don’t know the answer.
I think you replied to the wrong comment in the wrong thread? :D
Hahahahahahahaha. Yep. Been working nights. :). Thanks for answering though :). If I get the energy I’ll cut and paste it into the right thread :):):).
丰2ॐ

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