Is there a Reason user "personality"?

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scotward57
Posts: 34
Joined: 28 Jul 2019

Post 23 May 2021

I've read some other forums like KVR and what other folks are saying about Reason 12. Almost universally, there is a nastolgia about and a recognition that Reason played a huge role in music production at a time when music software felt like working on an Excel spreadsheet.

But by and large, there's this arrogant vibe about Reason not being music software for grown ups and that the typical Reason user lives in a cult. I guess we just mindlessly obey whatever Reason Studios Inc. tells us to think and buy. I've heard similar things about so-called Apple fanboys.

I personally find that notion silly. I really enjoy the hardware rack paradigm, but don't wish to be burdened with the clutter or expense of owing too much hardware. Am I not the target customer for Reason Studios Inc?

Would you consider that a personality issue or belonging to a cult? I don't. Actually I'm more offended by users who think Reason should be more like other DAWs. But I digress.

Is there a Reason user "type" that I'm not aware of?

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integerpoet
Posts: 228
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Location: East Bay, California

Post 23 May 2021

scotward57 wrote:
23 May 2021
I guess we just mindlessly obey whatever Reason Studios Inc. tells us to think and buy. I've heard similar things about so-called Apple fanboys.
Hilarious. Back in the day, I immediately recognized that connection, but until now I never heard anybody else make it. There have always been Apple and RS haters. I've literally been ignoring these sad losers for decades. I suggest you do the same.

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QVprod
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Post 23 May 2021

Yes. Buts it’s more of a vocal minority kind of thing. Particularly on Reason specific forums like this one and formerly the PUF. Reason IMO seems to attract more loyalists than other DAWs. Back in the day they were anti VST because Reason didn’t allow them. People made songs 100% Reason in order to prove people wrong about it not being professional. Being sort of new to production at the time, I’ll admit I I was influenced by that crazy notion myself at one point 😅. I think we’ve mostly gotten past that now.

Nowadays they’re anti other DAWs, hence the backlash about the RRP. There are people who would rather go without a desired feature than to use another DAW that does what they need alongside Reason. I wouldn’t go as far as “cult” (or at least not anymore) as the culture here right now is very much in the lacking trust realm. But there really is a brand loyalty that is very unique to Reason.

The arrogant vibe you speak of is a remnant of something very old, spewed by people who really don’t know what they’re talking about.

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platzangst
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Post 23 May 2021

Elitism takes many forms. I'm sure some people might consider Reason the ultimate pinnacle of music production and be slavish followers of the software (though the amount of complaining about features not yet in Reason now and over the years would seem to indicate otherwise), but you could say the same of far more popular software. And do we really think Reason is "not for grownups" when one of the leading programs was called "Fruity Loops" for years? And what were those 13-year-old producers actually creating their beats on, anyway? My bet is a cracked copy of Ableton. For grownups indeed.

Myself, the devotion to Reason above other programs is due to the fact that I work best with it. I don't even claim Reason to be best for all people, it just works best for me. I never could get my head around Ableton or FL to do any worthwhile work with them, but Reason worked for me. I've worked around its limitations when I've needed to.

I was never a "purist" about it - I would have gladly accepted VST support far earlier than it actually arrived (in fact, my earliest thread on the old Propellerhead Users forum was to suggest a method of doing just that), but at the time, the signal from Propellerhead was that VSTs were too unstable and against their vision for Reason - any arguments I had on the matter were less about not wanting VSTs and more about the sometimes insufferable kvetching about how Reason was going to DIE if it didn't cough up some feature or another RIGHT NOW, versus my stance that PH had the right to do whatever they wanted with their product even at the risk of alienating potential customers.

But that's really beside the point. Even if there was a Reason personality type, so what? Here's a secret: the people who consume music generally don't care any more about how the music they like is created beyond "this sounds good, I like it". In the 90s, I released a 7" ep on vinyl long before I ever heard of Reason, and the record pressing plant did not care in the slightest about the fact that the music was originally recorded on cassettes. As long as my money was good, they pressed the record. (I did have to get them a digital copy of the cassette master, but the issue sure wasn't the tape hiss.) The only people who care about what software you use are people who either want to copy what you do, so want to know what tools you use, or people who want an excuse to look down upon you.

DaveyG
Posts: 989
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 23 May 2021

That shock of discovering you've been a brainwashed cult member for all these years. That sure explains all those small payments that appear on my credit card every May and November. Sale. Don't need anything.... must.... buy.... something.

Anyhow, I think the OP needs to be sent for an assimilation top-up.

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esselfortium
Posts: 1413
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 23 May 2021

Whining.

Popey
Posts: 550
Joined: 04 Jul 2018

Post 23 May 2021

I am not sure if you can lump reason users with a certain personality as the reality is everyone is different however what I would say is that their is a lot of love for reason and this can cause people to be defensive of it and feel upset when it is criticised.

I always laugh when people say it is not professional considering the first time I saw it was in my friends studio and also others I knew that made their living in music all had it. Fair enough this was over 20 years ago and they used it for synths not as a daw but it was no less pro than logic, pt or any other hardware etc that they were using at the time.

Its interesting that the op says they are offended when people think reason should be like other daws as this kind of shows the fondness attached to reason and how we each internally see it. Personally when others say it should have x feature or whatever I am cool with that as it is what that individual wants. I don't think this means they want it to be a clone of all the other daws just that for them it would be useful as part of reason.

As for a cult? No way just people that love reason (even those moaning about lack of features do so as they want reason to be better for their own personal needs). I like kvr as there are nuggets of great info but it is also the place you can find pages of threads where people type stuff like ppttffgghhgdsyyyuujhgf for goodness sake.

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lowtom
Posts: 118
Joined: 29 Sep 2017

Post 23 May 2021

Reason always attracted me because of few aspects no other software had:
1. One window with all devices - no floating bullshit
2. Stability - anyone remembers PH apparel with labels "Bug free software"?
3. Possibilities.
4. Community

Over the years I noticed several type of "personalities" associated with PH software users.
Back in time there was this tech nerd vibe - community mods and skins for ReBirth, .rns song archive on PH site, ReFills, "play your Reason system" motto when v3 showed up, custom controllers, Remote hacking, Thor magicf**kery and so on. It was cool to use Reason and showing off your spaghetti of virtual wires. Reason was advertised as workstation killer.

When Record showed up, PH, with their Line 6 partnership, started to attract less computer nerd users and more guitarist, vocalist, player "middle aged hobby" type of musicians. I believe those users are most vocal about missing DAW features.

Now RS started to see that their main playing card card is what brought first attention to them, back in the days - Rack, full of devices with almost endless possibilities. Updating Combinator for v12 is the exact move to bring back this tech vibe back.

The term "Reason is a toy" was coined back in the days when everyone who was not PT or Cubase user was not taken seriously. It was just plain stupid.
:reason: :refill: :re:

EdGrip
Posts: 2179
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 23 May 2021

I don't know what it means that this forum is more active than the Ableton forum, despite Ableton having probably an order of magnitude more users. I suppose it means that Reason users are more likely to be forum-using people.

I picked Reason as my first DAW because the rack was intuitive to my fuzz-pedal-obsessed mind. Plugging things into other things and seeing what sounds resulted was my fave thing, and still is really. Sequencing those sounds in a specific arrangement was secondary, and still is.

More recently I've got into Ableton, but it's notable that that is *also* a sound design DAW experimental environment, just a different flavour. It could just as easily have been Bitwig that came next. I've no interest in the more sequencer-centric DAWs like Cubase or Pro Tools, cos that's not my jam. I like sequencers that have knobs.

Ableton is more likely to trick you into getting into arrangements, because playing in session view is just making arrangements in real time really. So Ableton heavily pushes sound design into a musical context, where Reason for me always just becomes messing about in the Rack.

EdGrip
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Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 23 May 2021

It's probably also significant that Reason grew out of Rebirth, which was basically an Acid/dance music/X0X emulator for junglists and ravers. That's its real roots.

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demt
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Post 23 May 2021

We all part our hair from the left.
Reason 11 suite ,modular rack ,squarp hermon ,nektar aura ,editerkeys reason keyboard
hear scince reason 2.5

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Biolumin3sc3nt
Posts: 601
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 23 May 2021

The Cult of Reason usually involves a Blood Sacrifice.

DaveyG
Posts: 989
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 23 May 2021

EdGrip wrote:
23 May 2021
. I suppose it means that Reason users are more likely to be forum-using people.
You mean we're all old! Yeah, hard to deny that one. :twisted:

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motuscott
Posts: 2363
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Location: the New York

Post 23 May 2021

Off putting.
At least that's what I strive for
The Now Sound of MIDI Thru 🧂

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MannequinRaces
Posts: 1528
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 23 May 2021

esselfortium wrote:
23 May 2021
Whining.
+1

TritoneAddiction
Posts: 2954
Joined: 29 Aug 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 23 May 2021

Yes. Every discussion a Reason user engages in eventually turns into a wishlist. It's like a law of nature at this point. :lol:

Tiny Montgomery
Posts: 207
Joined: 22 Apr 2020

Post 23 May 2021

motuscott wrote:
23 May 2021
Off putting.
At least that's what I strive for
:clap:

Tiny Montgomery
Posts: 207
Joined: 22 Apr 2020

Post 23 May 2021

EdGrip wrote:
23 May 2021
I don't know what it means that this forum is more active than the Ableton forum, despite Ableton having probably an order of magnitude more users. I suppose it means that Reason users are more likely to be forum-using people.
This is something that has struck me recently too. Was never a big Ableton forum user but its not a very inviting place and doesnt have any kind of vibe at all now. But like you say the user base is huge compared to Reason....maybe its the smaller dedicated user base (which I wouldnt really consider myself to be in, Im a dabbler) that is actually the key to the ReasonTalk forums (relative) success?

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SebAudio
Posts: 210
Joined: 08 Mar 2015

Post 23 May 2021

Well, there aren’t so much threads about Reason at kvr ! And almost all of those threads if not all of them are started and feeding by people you can find here at ReasonTalk ! Some people just seem to expect RS to make Reason the way they (those users) want it to be. And they think that so-called social médias such as users forums like kvr is a way to put pressure on RS.
And they encounter people who are occasionnal users of Reason among a lot of other plug-ins and daws and so are not so concerned with missing features etc.
Seb Audio ( :reason: 11 waiting for HD v12 / Ableton Live 10 + RRP 11-PX7)
https://maretranquillitatis.bandcamp.com/
https://ljseb.bandcamp.com/

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plaamook
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Location: Abajo del mar...

Post 23 May 2021

Dear friend of mine who teaches music shenanigans at bath uni reckons Reason users are more ‘loyal’ to reason simply because it’s such a different environment they’ve gotten used to working in. Where the rest of the Daws tend to follow more similar lines.

I’m loyal to Reason because I started with it and I’m lazy. I know it like the back of my hand. But really I sort of wish I wasn’t so hooked into it because I don’t like the lack of clarity of vision w the company.
I tried logic on and off for ages and just never got along with it.
Pt is great. Curious about ableton. No surplus money for that these days so crossing my digits and sticking around hoping they stabilise the mission.
At times I have seen what man thought he saw.

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challism
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Post 23 May 2021

demt wrote:
23 May 2021
We all part our hair from the left.
Some of us just have REALLY WIDE parts.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Players are to MIDI what synthesizers are to waveforms.

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guitfnky
Posts: 3469
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 23 May 2021

challism wrote:
23 May 2021
demt wrote:
23 May 2021
We all part our hair from the left.
Some of us just have REALLY WIDE parts.
😂

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Jackjackdaw
Posts: 878
Joined: 12 Jan 2019

Post 23 May 2021

I tend to join a forum for any new platform I start to learn going way back to my Tascam 788 digital 8 track in 2000. But I seldom hang around posting my random opinions on things long after I've learnt the ropes and then some. But I keep coming back to Reasontalk even if it's properly done my nut in on occasion, 😂

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Vincent Vitellius
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2021

Post 23 May 2021

The hardware rack paradigm and intuitiveness was the kicker for me.
Cult, perception, forum discussions and other stuff was the last things on my mind when I recently decided that Reason was to be my first gateway drug into music production.
It seems that every product category has its fanboyism. It’s just human nature to create conflict out of nothing.
Thinkpad X1E | Win 10 | :reason: 11 | Donner DMK-25 | FiiO K3 | Beyerdynamics DT-880 Pro

chaosroyale
Posts: 652
Joined: 05 Sep 2017

Post 23 May 2021

Stereotypical Reason user quotes:

"You only need a 4-track cassette to make music!"

"Reason is unique because it has.... (basic feature)"

"If Reason had (basic feature) it would ruin how unique it is"

"Reason can load all my files from 2001 that I am still working on"

"If you really want (basic feature), use Ableton!" <-this one is official policy lol

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