Future RE purchase concerns.

[Billy+]

So with the announcement of Reason V12 release in September and the potential loss of the original combinator I'm a little concerned about buying RE's that include combinator based patches.

Obviously the devices should work unless RS dump the SDK as well, however as someone considering not upgrading to V12 and reading between the lines does this mean that I'm not going to be able to use the bundle patches for future devices that use CMBv2.

I would like to understand how this change will affect future decisions on purchases as I'm very reluctant to buy the upgrade to V12 as I currently don't see any real benefit for me personally at present.

An official RS response would be really helpful.

[Billy+]

If CMBv2 is made available for download from the shop then I guess it wouldn't be a problem for older versions but i would guess it's going to be an internal device specific to V12......

[PhillipOrdonez]

Regardless of method, it is backwards compatible. You can open old patches on the new Combi, but not new ones in the old one. Get it?

[MrFigg]

If CMBv2 is made available for download from the shop then I guess it wouldn't be a problem for older versions but i would guess it's going to be an internal device specific to V12......

Well, if that was the case, and they did make it an RE in they Shop, then they would certainly charging for it so you’d be paying for it. So either you could do that if it happens or buy the upgrade now for cheap and avoid all the worry.

[MrFigg]

Regardless of method, it is backwards compatible. You can open old patches on the new Combi, but not new ones in the old one. Get it?

I think that was what he meant. I was going to answer the same as you Phill. Then I read his question again and he seems to be asking if he doesn’t upgrade and then buys a new device if he’ll be able to use the combi patches which come with device if they’re made in v.2. I’m assuming he won’t be able to.

[Billy+]

If CMBv2 is made available for download from the shop then I guess it wouldn't be a problem for older versions but i would guess it's going to be an internal device specific to V12......

Well, if that was the case, and they did make it an RE in they Shop, then they would certainly charging for it so you’d be paying for it. So either you could do that if it happens or buy the upgrade now for cheap and avoid all the worry.

As a suite owner the upgrade isn't available for sale yet....

And although we haven't seen the full features list "currently" those on display don't appeal to me.

I will actually be spending my update money on Algorithm and even though I'm still not sure about it I have decided to also purchase Mutator as well as they are the only RS devices I don't own.

As for buying CMBv2 that could be an option all be it pointless in the long term assuming V13 offers features that would be useful to me.. I'm still hoping that V12 will get the features that I'm after but I'm not holding my breath.

[Yonatan]

Is your concern about newer RE combi patches onward, if you stay on R11? OR also the already existing combi-patches on oider RE´s? (if they are automatically getting upgraded to latest combi?)
At least newer RE´s could be an issue, probably all RE developers will start making combi2 patches, and thus all those not on R12 will miss out on those. Otherwise a dev will have to use an earlier version of Reason to create some old combi patches for those on earlier versions.
My guess is that most users will be pushed to upgrade. R12 almost seems mandatory with its hi-res etc. But all below Win 10 and below OSX 10.13 will find themselves stay with what they have got. They can buy new RE´s but might miss out on the combi patches included.

[Billy+]

Regardless of method, it is backwards compatible. You can open old patches on the new Combi, but not new ones in the old one. Get it?

I think that was what he meant. I was going to answer the same as you Phill. Then I read his question again and he seems to be asking if he doesn’t upgrade and then buys a new device if he’ll be able to use the combi patches which come with device if they’re made in v.2. I’m assuming he won’t be able to.

Exactly the point

[RoryM0]

Is your concern about newer RE combi patches onward, if you stay on R11? OR also the already existing combi-patches on oider RE´s? (if they are automatically getting upgraded to latest combi?)
At least newer RE´s could be an issue, probably all RE developers will start making combi2 patches, and thus all those not on R12 will miss out on those. Otherwise a dev will have to use an earlier version of Reason to create some old combi patches for those on earlier versions.
My guess is that most users will be pushed to upgrade. R12 almost seems mandatory with its hi-res etc. But all below Win 10 and below OSX 10.13 will find themselves stay with what they have got. They can buy new RE´s but might miss out on the combi patches included.

It does give a whiff of 'you're going to need to upgrade' doesn't it, when something as fundamental to Reason like the Combinator is being so radically overhauled. It might even add some plausibility to that thread suggesting that R12 could/should be pay what you want to upgrade...

[MrFigg]

Is your concern about newer RE combi patches onward, if you stay on R11? OR also the already existing combi-patches on oider RE´s? (if they are automatically getting upgraded to latest combi?)
At least newer RE´s could be an issue, probably all RE developers will start making combi2 patches, and thus all those not on R12 will miss out on those. Otherwise a dev will have to use an earlier version of Reason to create some old combi patches for those on earlier versions.
My guess is that most users will be pushed to upgrade. R12 almost seems mandatory with its hi-res etc. But all below Win 10 and below OSX 10.13 will find themselves stay with what they have got. They can buy new RE´s but might miss out on the combi patches included.

It does give a whiff of 'you're going to need to upgrade' doesn't it, when something as fundamental to Reason like the Combinator is being so radically overhauled. It might even add some plausibility to that thread suggesting that R12 could/should be pay what you want to upgrade...

Not really. There’s loads of devs who throw in combi patches which require other REs to use. The device will work as it is supposed to. The extra combi patches are just a bonus.

[guitfnky]

It does give a whiff of 'you're going to need to upgrade' doesn't it, when something as fundamental to Reason like the Combinator is being so radically overhauled. It might even add some plausibility to that thread suggesting that R12 could/should be pay what you want to upgrade...

Not really. There’s loads of devs who throw in combi patches which require other REs to use. The device will work as it is supposed to. The extra patches are just a bonus.

unless you rely heavily on presets, in which case you’re more likely to be factoring included patches into your purchase decision.

there’s less than 0% chance R12 will be a pay-what-you-want upgrade. but it’s an important question Billy raises. hopefully RS has anticipated it and plans to do something about it (making it a free RE for users would be a great show of good faith). unfortunately, I suspect they’ve anticipated it, but that they’ll also not do anything about it. hope I’m wrong.

[MrFigg]

Not really. There’s loads of devs who throw in combi patches which require other REs to use. The device will work as it is supposed to. The extra patches are just a bonus.

unless you rely heavily on presets, in which case you’re more likely to be factoring included patches into your purchase decision.

there’s less than 0% chance R12 will be a pay-what-you-want upgrade. but it’s an important question Billy raises. hopefully RS has anticipated it and plans to do something about it (making it a free RE for users would be a great show of good faith). unfortunately, I suspect they’ve anticipated it, but that they’ll also not do anything about it. hope I’m wrong.

The two main selling points for R12 that we know about are the new sampler and the new combi. I doubt very much that they would make it a free RE.

[Billy+]

Lots of developers create CMB patches to showcase their devices and unless they either create two version or run an older version of Reason their patches are not going to be useable with older Reason versions.

At the moment you can pretty much guarantee that the patches are going to work for your version of Reason but as of September that's not going to be the case.

[guitfnky]

unless you rely heavily on presets, in which case you’re more likely to be factoring included patches into your purchase decision.

there’s less than 0% chance R12 will be a pay-what-you-want upgrade. but it’s an important question Billy raises. hopefully RS has anticipated it and plans to do something about it (making it a free RE for users would be a great show of good faith). unfortunately, I suspect they’ve anticipated it, but that they’ll also not do anything about it. hope I’m wrong.

The two main selling points for R12 that we know about are the new sampler and the new combi. I doubt very much that they would make it a free RE.

yep, that’s why I said it would be a show of good faith, and then said I don’t think they’re actually going to do that.

[MrFigg]

The two main selling points for R12 that we know about are the new sampler and the new combi. I doubt very much that they would make it a free RE.

yep, that’s why I said it would be a show of good faith, and then said I don’t think they’re actually going to do that.

Yeah. It was the “show of good faith” bit that confused me. Why would they give one of the main features of the new upgrade to those choosing not to upgrade. That wouldn’t be a “show of good faith”...or?

[Billy+]

The two main selling points for R12 that we know about are the new sampler and the new combi. I doubt very much that they would make it a free RE.

You say that but for me I really don't see that as any reason to buy another upgrade that would provide me with nothing I could actually see myself using.

But I would definitely download a free CMBv2 so that I could continue buying RE's knowing they would work in V11.

[guitfnky]

yep, that’s why I said it would be a show of good faith, and then said I don’t think they’re actually going to do that.

Yeah. It was the “show of good faith” bit that confused me. Why would they give one of the main features of the new upgrade to those choosing not to upgrade. That wouldn’t be a “show of good faith”...or?

I just meant in terms of the issue Billy outlined. I agree it doesn’t make sense based on what they’ve said so far.

[MrFigg]

The two main selling points for R12 that we know about are the new sampler and the new combi. I doubt very much that they would make it a free RE.

You say that but for me I really don't see that as any reason to buy another upgrade that would provide me with nothing I could actually see myself using.

But I would definitely download a free CMBv2 so that I could continue buying RE's knowing they would work in V11.

The REs will work. The included combi v2 patches might not. We’ve already established that. And of course you’d download a free RE. No question.

[guitfnky]

that’s not the point. it will undoubtedly hurt RE sales to some extent if the full product (which includes all of the included presets) isn’t available to everyone who buys it.

yes, RE devs may already be requiring other REs for some of their devices (which is stupid, IMO, but that is also beside the point), but we’re talking about a stock device that is included in the DAW, and which is the basis for a huge number of included presets.

[Billy+]

You say that but for me I really don't see that as any reason to buy another upgrade that would provide me with nothing I could actually see myself using.

But I would definitely download a free CMBv2 so that I could continue buying RE's knowing they would work in V11.

And of course you’d download a free RE. No question.

That's not entirely true,

there are many free RE's that I haven't downloaded or even just grabbed because there free, the same as when buying VST's from plugin boutique I have on many occasions chosen not to accept a free plugin as I really don't want it.

But if it's something that I need then it's less about choice.

[MrFigg]

And of course you’d download a free RE. No question.

That's not entirely true,

there are many free RE's that I haven't downloaded or even just grabbed because there free, the same as when buying VST's from plugin boutique I have on many occasions chosen not to accept a free plugin as I really don't want it.

But if it's something that I need then it's less about choice.

You said “ But I would definitely download a free CMBv2 ”. and I agreed they of course you would.

[Billy+]

that’s not the point. it will undoubtedly hurt RE sales to some extent if the full product (which includes all of the included presets) isn’t available to everyone who buys it.

yes, RE devs may already be requiring other REs for some of their devices (which is stupid, IMO, but that is also beside the point), but we’re talking about a stock device that is included in the DAW, and which is the basis for a huge number of included presets.

That's exactly my point, take a look at something like PX7 or any of the Piano RE's currently available in fact a huge amount of RE's rely on the combinator all of which become incompatible with every Reason version below 12 if updated to CMBv2.

[MrFigg]

Ok. What is it exactly you want RS to do?

[Billy+]

That's not entirely true,

there are many free RE's that I haven't downloaded or even just grabbed because there free, the same as when buying VST's from plugin boutique I have on many occasions chosen not to accept a free plugin as I really don't want it.

But if it's something that I need then it's less about choice.

You said “ But I would definitely download a free CMBv2 ”. and I agreed they of course you would.

But out of necessity not choice.

[Billy+]

Ok. What is it exactly you want RS to do?

Me?

Find a solution or make V12 something worth buying.