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Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 22 May 2021
by Timmy Crowne
QVprod wrote: ↑22 May 2021
I’ll preface that I’m in favor of a newer NNXT. However, the Spitfire Labs stuff could very much be pulled off now in NNXT since they’re not incredibly large in size and there’s not much to the UI. And the new Combinator does open up some more possibilities. And also, there’s nothing stopping REs of high quality acoustic stuff pretty much at all. There’s a quite a few sample based REs in the shop now. Just comes down to interest from developers/designers. Pack creators have choice in what they contribute.
Very true. What Spitfire has done isn't technically impressive, which is all the more reason the success of LABS is remarkable. It's immediately playable, offers unique instrument textures, and serves as an entry point for their paid offerings that are bigger and more complex. If such complex libraries were designed for the new Reason sampler (which hopefully is more full-featured than the 19-year-old NN-XT), they could feature greater modulation capabilities and ease-of-use which would allow the format to thrive without needing to beat Kontakt. It's unlikely any new sampler will dethrone Kontakt as the de facto king, but the new sampler doesn't need to. It just needs to be easy to use, have fresh instruments and be more powerful than the NN-XT. That would work for me!
I think the challenge with the RE market is that developers would be taking a big risk in terms of time and money invested recording the samples and learning the SDK, with a prospect for a return that is murky at best. That may be why we get way more REs that are synths, effects, players and CV processors than sample libraries. It's hard to convince users to even try a new RE if they don't see a use for it. I didn't know I wanted to play a Super Sul Tasto Cello until I played one in LABS! If a new RE with that title had popped up in the shop I probably would have kept scrolling. Now if the new sampler rejuvenates the Reason ecosystem so that Refills become hot again, I can image lite versions of new libraries floating around the community, more creative Combinator patches and more incentive for creators to release boutique sampled instruments. This may be Reason's renaissance!
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 22 May 2021
by QVprod
Timmy Crowne wrote: ↑22 May 2021
QVprod wrote: ↑22 May 2021
I’ll preface that I’m in favor of a newer NNXT. However, the Spitfire Labs stuff could very much be pulled off now in NNXT since they’re not incredibly large in size and there’s not much to the UI. And the new Combinator does open up some more possibilities. And also, there’s nothing stopping REs of high quality acoustic stuff pretty much at all. There’s a quite a few sample based REs in the shop now. Just comes down to interest from developers/designers. Pack creators have choice in what they contribute.
Very true. What Spitfire has done isn't technically impressive, which is all the more reason the success of LABS is remarkable. It's immediately playable, offers unique instrument textures, and serves as an entry point for their paid offerings that are bigger and more complex. If such complex libraries were designed for the new Reason sampler (which hopefully is more full-featured than the 19-year-old NN-XT), they could feature greater modulation capabilities and ease-of-use which would allow the format to thrive without needing to beat Kontakt. It's unlikely any new sampler will dethrone Kontakt as the de facto king, but the new sampler doesn't need to. It just needs to be easy to use, have fresh instruments and be more powerful than the NN-XT. That would work for me!
I think the challenge with the RE market is that developers would be taking a big risk in terms of time and money invested recording the samples and learning the SDK, with a prospect for a return that is murky at best. That may be why we get way more REs that are synths, effects, players and CV processors than sample libraries. It's hard to convince users to even try a new RE if they don't see a use for it. I didn't know I wanted to play a Super Sul Tasto Cello until I played one in LABS! If a new RE with that title had popped up in the shop I probably would have kept scrolling. Now if the new sampler rejuvenates the Reason ecosystem so that Refills become hot again, I can image lite versions of new libraries floating around the community, more creative Combinator patches and more incentive for creators to release boutique sampled instruments. This may be Reason's renaissance!
Actually, I think regardless of whether the new sampler does multi samples or not the new combinator is a game changer here. Pack creators could very well sample something and make a pack dedicated to just that. No one’s done it yet but I could be a great avenue to go down if it can be done with minimal expense.
might be giving myself ideas for a future pack
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 22 May 2021
by Timmy Crowne
QVprod wrote: ↑22 May 2021
Actually, I think regardless of whether the new sampler does multi samples or not the new combinator is a game changer here. Pack creators could very well sample something and make a pack dedicated to just that. No one’s done it yet but I could be a great avenue to go down if it can be done with minimal expense.
might be giving myself ideas for a future pack
Let's compete! I might sample my dog barking and turn into a pitch-corrected time-stretched reverb'ed pad. I'll slap the Dogecoin logo on the Combinator so I know folks will buy.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 22 May 2021
by QVprod
Timmy Crowne wrote: ↑22 May 2021
QVprod wrote: ↑22 May 2021
Actually, I think regardless of whether the new sampler does multi samples or not the new combinator is a game changer here. Pack creators could very well sample something and make a pack dedicated to just that. No one’s done it yet but I could be a great avenue to go down if it can be done with minimal expense.
might be giving myself ideas for a future pack
Let's compete! I might sample my dog barking and turn into a pitch-corrected time-stretched reverb'ed pad. I'll slap the Dogecoin logo on the Combinator so I know folks will buy.
do it before it drops this time
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 22 May 2021
by BRIGGS
QVprod wrote: ↑22 May 2021
Timmy Crowne wrote: ↑22 May 2021
Let's compete! I might sample my dog barking and turn into a pitch-corrected time-stretched reverb'ed pad. I'll slap the Dogecoin logo on the Combinator so I know folks will buy.
do it before it drops this time
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 22 May 2021
by Carpainter
I hate to be 'that guy', but the last thing Reason needs is a new sampler. NN-XT and Grain already cover all of the bases. In terms of sampling, all Reason needs (and has needed for many years) is better sample editing, but that's a UI problem, not a sampler problem.
Wake me up when they include a Diva-tier virtual analog synth in the base package.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 22 May 2021
by QVprod
Carpainter wrote: ↑22 May 2021
I hate to be 'that guy', but the last thing Reason needs is a new sampler. NN-XT and Grain already cover all of the bases. In terms of sampling, all Reason needs (and has needed for many years) is better sample editing, but that's a UI problem, not a sampler problem.
Yeah.. no. They don’t cover all of the bases. That’s why they’re adding a new one. Now one can argue that what’s lacking could’ve been an update to Grain of NNXT, but it’s beyond a simple UI update.
Just this week we had two threads here, one asking about time stretching samples and another about chopping functionality similar to to Serato sample.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 23 May 2021
by Carpainter
QVprod wrote: ↑22 May 2021
Yeah.. no. They don’t cover all of the bases. That’s why they’re adding a new one. Now one can argue that what’s lacking could’ve been an update to Grain of NNXT, but it’s beyond a simple UI update.
Just this week we had two threads here, one asking about time stretching samples and another about chopping functionality similar to to Serato sample.
All the tech that's needed to get those kind of results already exists within Reason. It's just much easier to do with a sampler like Serato because the UI is so good.
There are instruments gaps in the base package of Reason, but sampling isn't one of them. Unfortunately, they seem to enjoy locking gap-filling instruments (PX-7, Algoritm, Parsec, Complex-1) behind the RE paywall.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 23 May 2021
by QVprod
Carpainter wrote: ↑23 May 2021
QVprod wrote: ↑22 May 2021
Yeah.. no. They don’t cover all of the bases. That’s why they’re adding a new one. Now one can argue that what’s lacking could’ve been an update to Grain of NNXT, but it’s beyond a simple UI update.
Just this week we had two threads here, one asking about time stretching samples and another about chopping functionality similar to to Serato sample.
All the tech that's needed to get those kind of results already exists within Reason. It's just much easier to do with a sampler like Serato because the UI is so good.
There are instruments gaps in the base package of Reason, but sampling isn't one of them. Unfortunately, they seem to enjoy locking gap-filling instruments (PX-7, Algoritm, Parsec, Complex-1) behind the RE paywall.
There is no sampler in Reason that chops like serato does nor do any of them time stretch. That’s more than a UI update. That’s functionality. It being somewhat available in the sequencer does not equate to the same thing.
Oddly enough, you consider fm, additive and a modular synth as gaps. The new sampler will undeniably fill some gaps (whether you care for it or not) yet is
not behind a RE paywall.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 24 May 2021
by thefixr
OverneathTheSkyBridg wrote: ↑19 May 2021
It would be cool of the new sampler could sample audio from other open apps, like if youre watching Youtube.
I pretty much do this via Loopback on the Mac. I set apps to output to Loopback and set the Loopback virtual interface as my audio interface in Reason. Works very well.
I think Voicemeeter would achieve something similar on Windows.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 24 May 2021
by deeplink
thefixr wrote: ↑24 May 2021
OverneathTheSkyBridg wrote: ↑19 May 2021
It would be cool of the new sampler could sample audio from other open apps, like if youre watching Youtube.
I pretty much do this via Loopback on the Mac. I set apps to output to Loopback and set the Loopback virtual interface as my audio interface in Reason. Works very well.
I think Voicemeeter would achieve something similar on Windows.
Most new interfaces have loop back. Making sampling other apps pretty quick and easy
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 26 May 2021
by Ottostrom
Carpainter wrote: ↑22 May 2021
I hate to be 'that guy', but the last thing Reason needs is a new sampler. NN-XT and Grain already cover all of the bases. In terms of sampling, all Reason needs (and has needed for many years) is better sample editing, but that's a UI problem, not a sampler problem.
Wake me up when they include a Diva-tier virtual analog synth in the base package.
Hold up.. you complain about a new sampler being redundant and overlapping existing reason devices while asking for ANOTHER synth to be added? Lmao almost reads like satire to me
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 26 May 2021
by chaosroyale
Not even close. NN-XT is nicely organized and easy to use, but the automation absolutely sucks, and the playback features are less powerful than a good 90's hardware sampler (for example, no freely adjustable start, loop and crossfade). Not to mention no timestretch modes, etc. Grain also cannot be used as a high-spec traditional sampler because it only has the grain engines & the "tape" mode. Grain is fine as a basic granular, although the grain engine goes nowhere near fast/dense enough for my liking and the grain envelopes could use more tweakabilty.
The new one, I have no idea what kind of sampler it will be. Maybe it will do the stuff that NN-XT cannot, and by putting a few of them in a combinator it will be possible to make a decent sampler instrument.
Carpainter wrote: ↑22 May 2021
I hate to be 'that guy', but the last thing Reason needs is a new sampler. NN-XT and Grain already cover all of the bases. In terms of sampling, all Reason needs (and has needed for many years) is better sample editing, but that's a UI problem, not a sampler problem.
Wake me up when they include a Diva-tier virtual analog synth in the base package.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by plaamook
thefixr wrote: ↑24 May 2021
OverneathTheSkyBridg wrote: ↑19 May 2021
It would be cool of the new sampler could sample audio from other open apps, like if youre watching Youtube.
I pretty much do this via Loopback on the Mac. I set apps to output to Loopback and set the Loopback virtual interface as my audio interface in Reason. Works very well.
I think Voicemeeter would achieve something similar on Windows.
Yeah I just can't bring myself to pay $115 for it to the company that ate soundflower which was free. Though loopback ui is significantly better.
Reason being what it is I can't see whay we can;t easily loop things back within Reason itself. We 've got a load of cables...
If the new sampler will take audio staight from Reaon's output why can't the other samplers? Or will they? Seems like it should or could be general internal routing that achives this, not just the new fangled sampler. Like how 'sampling' was added to everything.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by plaamook
Ottostrom wrote: ↑26 May 2021
Carpainter wrote: ↑22 May 2021
I hate to be 'that guy', but the last thing Reason needs is a new sampler. NN-XT and Grain already cover all of the bases. In terms of sampling, all Reason needs (and has needed for many years) is better sample editing, but that's a UI problem, not a sampler problem.
Wake me up when they include a Diva-tier virtual analog synth in the base package.
Hold up.. you complain about a new sampler being redundant and overlapping existing reason devices while asking for ANOTHER synth to be added? Lmao almost reads like satire to me
Quite.
How many synths has Reason got/potentially got? I'm not even gonna count them all.
3-4 samplers. A 5th is on it's way.
Honestly, I'm happy for any Props based ceative sampling options. They tend to make things that are limited in many ways but still surprisingly deep and weird enough to pull off things that quickly get you into strange territory.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by EdGrip
Voicemeeter is solid and good if your interface doesn't do it natively.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by strange_scenery
plaamook wrote: ↑27 May 2021
thefixr wrote: ↑24 May 2021
I pretty much do this via Loopback on the Mac. I set apps to output to Loopback and set the Loopback virtual interface as my audio interface in Reason. Works very well.
I think Voicemeeter would achieve something similar on Windows.
Yeah I just can't bring myself to pay $115 for it to the company that ate soundflower which was free. Though loopback ui is significantly better.
Reason being what it is I can't see whay we can;t easily loop things back within Reason itself. We 've got a load of cables...
If the new sampler will take audio staight from Reaon's output why can't the other samplers? Or will they? Seems like it should or could be general internal routing that achives this, not just the new fangled sampler. Like how 'sampling' was added to everything.
The loopback demo works for 20 min, so as long as you're sampling something shorter than that you can use the demo indefinitely.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by QVprod
Loopback is more advanced.I can see why they charge for it. Not sure I’d pay that price, but nonetheless. However Blackhole is a more direct soundflower replacement
https://existential.audio/blackhole/
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by plaamook
strange_scenery wrote: ↑27 May 2021
plaamook wrote: ↑27 May 2021
Yeah I just can't bring myself to pay $115 for it to the company that ate soundflower which was free. Though loopback ui is significantly better.
Reason being what it is I can't see whay we can;t easily loop things back within Reason itself. We 've got a load of cables...
If the new sampler will take audio staight from Reaon's output why can't the other samplers? Or will they? Seems like it should or could be general internal routing that achives this, not just the new fangled sampler. Like how 'sampling' was added to everything.
The loopback demo works for 20 min, so as long as you're sampling something shorter than that you can use the demo indefinitely.
How did I miss that?...
Thanks. Downloading (again) now!
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by plaamook
QVprod wrote: ↑27 May 2021
Loopback is more advanced.I can see why they charge for it. Not sure I’d pay that price, but nonetheless. However Blackhole is a more direct soundflower replacement
https://existential.audio/blackhole/
Absolutely. 50 credits and I'd own it already. 115 is that push too far at the moment.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by sdst
Carpainter wrote: ↑22 May 2021
I hate to be 'that guy', but the last thing Reason needs is a new sampler. NN-XT and Grain already cover all of the bases. In terms of sampling, all Reason needs
unless the new sampler has time stretching
a sampler without time stretching is obsolete
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by plaamook
sdst wrote: ↑27 May 2021
Carpainter wrote: ↑22 May 2021
I hate to be 'that guy', but the last thing Reason needs is a new sampler. NN-XT and Grain already cover all of the bases. In terms of sampling, all Reason needs
unless the new sampler has time stretching
a sampler without time stretching is obsolete
Why?
Do you mean in general or in Reason because we have samplers that simply down sample (slow things down) already?
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by EdGrip
In general. The S950 had it in 1988, 33 years ago. That's nearly as long as I've been alive. Yet none of the Reason samplers do, and it's not a niche function.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by plaamook
EdGrip wrote: ↑27 May 2021
In general. The S950 had it in 1988, 33 years ago. That's nearly as long as I've been alive. Yet none of the Reason samplers do, and it's not a niche function.
Ok but if I pitch a sample down two or three octaves it gets pretty long and pretty low.
In NNXT or equiv I get a clean slowed down sample that's two or four or eight times the original lenth depending on how far I push it.
If I try to do this with any modern granular pitch and stretch algorythm there will be artifacts all over and it'll sound like shit, right?
(I'm hoping the aliens from the UFO thread will help us out with this)
I mean I get why Reason needs a modern sampler. I'm just curious as to why anyone would think that the classic slow down (anyone know the technical term for that?) NNXT/Tape method was obsolete. Far's I'm concerned it def isn't from a sound design point of view.
Re: New Sampler Thread
Posted: 27 May 2021
by EdGrip
It's just plain resampling I think. It's just playing the sample back at different rates. It's not obsolete, sometimes it's what you need. Other times you want the sample to remain the same duration, and it should always have been an option in the NNs.
might be giving myself ideas for a future pack
do it before it drops this time