Re: Reason 12 is coming!
Posted: 10 Jun 2021
ha ha ha
ha ha ha, neither do we!
I'm not sure when the memory leak issue was created. It could have very well been caused with all the updates between 11.3.4 and 11.3.9.
This is kind of annoying though. I can’t think of many instances where you’d want to bake the delay amount into the recording, especially if you’re recording an acoustic instrument or direct monitoring. Turning DC off isn’t always a viable option because then it will throw elements you’re performing to out of time, and you’d basically have to perform to a dry click. Or manually bypass effects every time you wanna track. OR just separate the tracking and mixing process entirely, but that’s easier said than done.orthodox wrote: ↑10 Jun 2021"That's just like, your opinion, man" (c)
I mean, it might be an expected side effect of buffer performance optimization in the latest version and RS won't recognize it as an issue.
DC will always introduce a latency in some signal flows, it can't be cured, so you have to record without DC in order to avoid it.
There is a workaround, you can freeze/bounce those elements.chimp_spanner wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021This is kind of annoying though. I can’t think of many instances where you’d want to bake the delay amount into the recording, especially if you’re recording an acoustic instrument or direct monitoring. Turning DC off isn’t always a viable option because then it will throw elements you’re performing to out of time, and you’d basically have to perform to a dry click. Or manually bypass effects every time you wanna track. OR just separate the tracking and mixing process entirely, but that’s easier said than done.
I mean, I guess this is where *actual* freeze would be nice! I do get what you mean. But it's just like if I've got a whole track going, I'm quite far into it and I'm like "ah I really wanna add another harmony/redo this riff/whatever" it's a total workflow killer to first figure out what I gotta bounce and bypass to get everything in time. I just feel like it should be easier. Also the weird thing is that unlike Live, I've encountered the problem even with software monitoring off. So even though I have an external guitar processor and an interface with direct monitoring, I'm still affected by latency if I wanna track with the full mix. I dunno. I'll have to experiment but I am inclined to just start doing my audio recording in Cubase. I'd love to use Live but like I said that has a similar issue, and using two tracks and moving audio between them...again. Workflow killer. For me anyway!orthodox wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021There is a workaround, you can freeze/bounce those elements.chimp_spanner wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021This is kind of annoying though. I can’t think of many instances where you’d want to bake the delay amount into the recording, especially if you’re recording an acoustic instrument or direct monitoring. Turning DC off isn’t always a viable option because then it will throw elements you’re performing to out of time, and you’d basically have to perform to a dry click. Or manually bypass effects every time you wanna track. OR just separate the tracking and mixing process entirely, but that’s easier said than done.
To me, that's an insoluble problem. The play and recording heads are the same, so I always have to shift the recorded clips back by a slight bit afterwards. As regards to live monitoring, just don't use any effects. I wonder how they do it, but people learn to play on stage with 300-500 ms latency, or just to a delay line.chimp_spanner wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021I mean, I guess this is where *actual* freeze would be nice! I do get what you mean. But it's just like if I've got a whole track going, I'm quite far into it and I'm like "ah I really wanna add another harmony/redo this riff/whatever" it's a total workflow killer to first figure out what I gotta bounce and bypass to get everything in time. I just feel like it should be easier. Also the weird thing is that unlike Live, I've encountered the problem even with software monitoring off. So even though I have an external guitar processor and an interface with direct monitoring, I'm still affected by latency if I wanna track with the full mix. I dunno. I'll have to experiment but I am inclined to just start doing my audio recording in Cubase. I'd love to use Live but like I said that has a similar issue, and using two tracks and moving audio between them...again. Workflow killer. For me anyway!
And then you try to arm tracks from the Nano Kontrol... Oh wait , you can't.MaMue wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021There are so many workflow killers, but they just do not care, its really sad. Today I had to click on every mixer channel and click "create automation", before I could start recording the automation of the solo/mute button triggered by a Korg nanokontrol.
There is just so much that could be optimized, who the f**k needs soundpacks or new devices? That basic stuff is often so far behind....
But I am really tired after all these years and I think I need to quit.
Cubase has really good delay compensation, so good that they prioritise it over gapless audio so playback stops if you add tracks or VSTs etc. So loads of people complain about that! Lolchimp_spanner wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021I mean, I guess this is where *actual* freeze would be nice! I do get what you mean. But it's just like if I've got a whole track going, I'm quite far into it and I'm like "ah I really wanna add another harmony/redo this riff/whatever" it's a total workflow killer to first figure out what I gotta bounce and bypass to get everything in time. I just feel like it should be easier. Also the weird thing is that unlike Live, I've encountered the problem even with software monitoring off. So even though I have an external guitar processor and an interface with direct monitoring, I'm still affected by latency if I wanna track with the full mix. I dunno. I'll have to experiment but I am inclined to just start doing my audio recording in Cubase. I'd love to use Live but like I said that has a similar issue, and using two tracks and moving audio between them...again. Workflow killer. For me anyway!
To clarify, I get latency in my recordings if I record arm but *don't* software monitor (I'm using a POD HD Pro X with the direct monitor switch enabled on my interface). So it's just straight up audio going in, and I still get whatever the delay happens to be in the project, in the audio file itself. No effects on the track.orthodox wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021To me, that's an insoluble problem. The play and recording heads are the same, so I always have to shift the recorded clips back by a slight bit afterwards. As regards to live monitoring, just don't use any effects. I wonder how they do it, but people learn to play on stage with 300-500 ms latency, or just to a delay line.chimp_spanner wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021
I mean, I guess this is where *actual* freeze would be nice! I do get what you mean. But it's just like if I've got a whole track going, I'm quite far into it and I'm like "ah I really wanna add another harmony/redo this riff/whatever" it's a total workflow killer to first figure out what I gotta bounce and bypass to get everything in time. I just feel like it should be easier. Also the weird thing is that unlike Live, I've encountered the problem even with software monitoring off. So even though I have an external guitar processor and an interface with direct monitoring, I'm still affected by latency if I wanna track with the full mix. I dunno. I'll have to experiment but I am inclined to just start doing my audio recording in Cubase. I'd love to use Live but like I said that has a similar issue, and using two tracks and moving audio between them...again. Workflow killer. For me anyway!
Yeah I feel you man. It's a shame because I do still think it's actually a really solid DAW. I've done so much work in it over the last several years. The modulation possible between different devices on different tracks is far beyond what you can do with RRP. The automation is still my favourite of any DAW. Player integration is so much better than recording MIDI in real time in another DAW. I've made this point SO many times but for me personally, there are a small handful of improvements that would make sequencing in Reason so much easier.adfielding wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021Interestingly, I think the idea of workarounds actually explains my personal concern with the current direction of Reason to a certain degree. Despite being not-so-great for workflow, I've generally accepted that workarounds have been necessary to use Reason the way I've wanted to in the past - though certain features (mainly audio recording & VST support) have gone a massive way in stomping out the most egregious workarounds, it feels like new ones keep popping up.
However, the biggest for me is the idea of hosting Reason inside another DAW to compensate for the current limitations of the standalone environment. It's great that the option is there (and I think I'd be a fool to suggest otherwise), but it does feel like a very tidy way to side-step any issues people have with using Reason standalone. "Now you can use Reason in your favourite DAW" is a great selling point if your favourite DAW is anything other than Reason. If, like me, Reason IS your favourite DAW - well, sticking it in a completely different environment is quite the workaround! Still, it's absolutely in keeping with my own trend in accepting workarounds as a cost of using Reason the way I want to - so there's that, I guess.
Everybody is able to run it as Demo.cocoazenith wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021Will I be able to trial Reason 12 after it is released? Or the only way to test it is by paying one month's worth subscription?
Oh, ok, so no Open Project. I guess I can live with that...orthodox wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021Everybody is able to run it as Demo.cocoazenith wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021Will I be able to trial Reason 12 after it is released? Or the only way to test it is by paying one month's worth subscription?
You make a very good point there Adam.adfielding wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021Interestingly, I think the idea of workarounds actually explains my personal concern with the current direction of Reason to a certain degree. Despite being not-so-great for workflow, I've generally accepted that workarounds have been necessary to use Reason the way I've wanted to in the past - though certain features (mainly audio recording & VST support) have gone a massive way in stomping out the most egregious workarounds, it feels like new ones keep popping up.
However, the biggest for me is the idea of hosting Reason inside another DAW to compensate for the current limitations of the standalone environment. It's great that the option is there (and I think I'd be a fool to suggest otherwise), but it does feel like a very tidy way to side-step any issues people have with using Reason standalone. "Now you can use Reason in your favourite DAW" is a great selling point if your favourite DAW is anything other than Reason. If, like me, Reason IS your favourite DAW - well, sticking it in a completely different environment is quite the workaround! Still, it's absolutely in keeping with my own trend in accepting workarounds as a cost of using Reason the way I want to - so there's that, I guess.
I guess so yeah. I mean RRP is great. I use it probably more than any of my standalone VSTs (with the exception of things like Serum or Vital) because I know the instruments so well, and even within a single rack you can still do stuff you'd struggle to do with a "normal" synth plugin. So ya know, I do like RRP and everything. Just never really envisaged that it would become the main (and perhaps sole) focus. So just gotta adapt accordingly I guess!guitfnky wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021even setting aside the sequencer and mixer views, just having integrated plugins within the Rack (both REs and VSTs) working seamlessly together is a huge selling point for Reason standalone. you just can’t route things the same way when using the RRP in another DAW. I think the biggest hurdle for me was the sort of “culture shock” of going back to a more traditional routing flow in another DAW. I’ve been more or less forced to regress to think of Reason as a series of individual VST plugins that I pull in from time to time. gone are the weird hybrid behemoth routings I might do in Reason.
I can still do some cool routing stuff in Live, but it’s using those proprietary tools, not Reason’s. it makes Reason less interesting to use, and I don’t really reach for RRP as often as I thought I would.
the short version is that RRP turns Reason into just another VST plugin. it’s a very flexible one, but there are already lots of those.
totally—some will get more mileage out of RRP than I do, for sure. when Reason got VST support, I dove in and got very used to making stuff where both plugin types would be reliant on one another from a routing standpoint, and when I started using RRP it was either one or the other, really.chimp_spanner wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021I guess so yeah. I mean RRP is great. I use it probably more than any of my standalone VSTs (with the exception of things like Serum or Vital) because I know the instruments so well, and even within a single rack you can still do stuff you'd struggle to do with a "normal" synth plugin. So ya know, I do like RRP and everything. Just never really envisaged that it would become the main (and perhaps sole) focus. So just gotta adapt accordingly I guess!guitfnky wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021even setting aside the sequencer and mixer views, just having integrated plugins within the Rack (both REs and VSTs) working seamlessly together is a huge selling point for Reason standalone. you just can’t route things the same way when using the RRP in another DAW. I think the biggest hurdle for me was the sort of “culture shock” of going back to a more traditional routing flow in another DAW. I’ve been more or less forced to regress to think of Reason as a series of individual VST plugins that I pull in from time to time. gone are the weird hybrid behemoth routings I might do in Reason.
I can still do some cool routing stuff in Live, but it’s using those proprietary tools, not Reason’s. it makes Reason less interesting to use, and I don’t really reach for RRP as often as I thought I would.
the short version is that RRP turns Reason into just another VST plugin. it’s a very flexible one, but there are already lots of those.
Right!!! Back to this. What exactly am I supposed to be experiencing? No latency here. I put the metronome on 110bpm. Buffer size on 64. Started recording. Played a guitar note on each beat. Did the same thing with delay comp both on and off. No latency problems at all. Have I missed a step? R11.3.9d22.Billy+ wrote: ↑10 Jun 2021
Give it a try and see if you experience it.
Challism included it here:-
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7523451
And a couple of users have confirmed it, I'm still running an older build so don't experience it....challism wrote: ↑09 Jun 2021Some of these links can be difficult to find, so I decided to put them all together in one list
Reason Studios
Authorizer: https://help.reasonstudios.com/hc/en-us ... r-Download
Code Meter: https://www.reasonstudios.com/download-codemeter
Companion: https://www.reasonstudios.com/plus/subscriber
Previous versions of Reason: https://www.reasonstudios.com/en/reason/updates
Previous version of Suite: 11.3.4 https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/reason-suite1134 (without the latency issue)
Refill Packer: https://help.reasonstudios.com/hc/en-us ... ill-Packer
Search ReasonStudio.com: https://www.reasonstudios.com/search
Related
ASIO4ALL: https://www.asio4all.org/
LoopMIDI: https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html
MIDIOX: http://www.midiox.com/
Snappy Driver Installer: https://sdi-tool.org/download/
Virtual Audio Cables: https://vb-audio.com/Cable/
Virtual Audio Mixer: https://vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm
You need to add an effect that introduces latency. A limiter with look ahead or a heavy CPU reverb or something. That's when DC kicks inMrFigg wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021Right!!! Back to this. What exactly am I supposed to be experiencing? No latency here. I put the metronome on 110bpm. Buffer size on 64. Started recording. Played a guitar note on each beat. Did the same thing with delay comp both on and off. No latency problems at all. Have I missed a step? R11.3.9d22Billy+ wrote: ↑10 Jun 2021
Give it a try and see if you experience it.
Challism included it here:-
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7523451
And a couple of users have confirmed it, I'm still running an older build so don't experience it....
What about the fact that he's got the buffer size set to 2048? That's a lot of latency just there right?Jackjackdaw wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021You need to add an effect that introduces latency. A limiter with look ahead or a heavy CPU reverb or something. That's when DC kicks inMrFigg wrote: ↑11 Jun 2021
Right!!! Back to this. What exactly am I supposed to be experiencing? No latency here. I put the metronome on 110bpm. Buffer size on 64. Started recording. Played a guitar note on each beat. Did the same thing with delay comp both on and off. No latency problems at all. Have I missed a step? R11.3.9d22