Reason 12 is coming!

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mcatalao
Posts: 1475
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 10 Jun 2021

guitfnky wrote:
10 Jun 2021
playing an instrument and producing/mixing are really apples and oranges—they require vastly different skillsets. of course there’s overlap, but I think neither one is inherently more difficult than the other—they’re just different.
From my understanding, and having studied both aspects of the craft, the mindset for an instrument is a very focused one, very practical and with a very dive into detail, and it depends a lot on the depth of control of the instrument you intend to achieve. It also has a very physical component (muscle memory, positioning, for some instruments like any of the string instruments) you change your body posture for the instrument at a level where bones and muscles change. The pianist hands get squashed for the big hand overtures and so on.

However, there's something to say, the things you learn as an instrumentalist overlap with a lot of stuff that will benefit a producer, and the best producers most often play one or more music instruments.

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guitfnky
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Post 10 Jun 2021

mcatalao wrote:
10 Jun 2021
guitfnky wrote:
10 Jun 2021
playing an instrument and producing/mixing are really apples and oranges—they require vastly different skillsets. of course there’s overlap, but I think neither one is inherently more difficult than the other—they’re just different.
From my understanding, and having studied both aspects of the craft, the mindset for an instrument is a very focused one, very practical and with a very dive into detail, and it depends a lot on the depth of control of the instrument you intend to achieve. It also has a very physical component (muscle memory, positioning, for some instruments like any of the string instruments) you change your body posture for the instrument at a level where bones and muscles change. The pianist hands get squashed for the big hand overtures and so on.

However, there's something to say, the things you learn as an instrumentalist overlap with a lot of stuff that will benefit a producer, and the best producers most often play one or more music instruments.
the main reason they’re so different and really shouldn’t be compared (IMO) is exactly what you’re alluding to—playing an instrument is an inherently physical process. mixing/producing music is an inherently mental one.

you can’t play an instrument well until you’ve got the physical side of things down. you can’t produce a good mix until you have a good mental understanding of how to manipulate sounds.

composition is where the two start to overlap, mainly because modern production software has largely become synonymous with music composition. what you used to have to do 100% outside the box (with instruments or scores, etc.) can now be done 100% inside of it (virtual instruments and sequencing).

DaveyG
Posts: 986
Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 10 Jun 2021

Right now, on the RS home page the first three headings, in a huge font, are:
Plug in Reason. The ultimate plugin for music makers.
Plug in Reason to find your own unique sound
We’re a plugin (and a DAW)
Nuff said really. :puf_smile:

deeplink
Posts: 353
Joined: 08 Jul 2020
Location: Dubai

Post 10 Jun 2021

DaveyG wrote:
10 Jun 2021
Right now, on the RS home page the first three headings, in a huge font, are:
Plug in Reason. The ultimate plugin for music makers.
Plug in Reason to find your own unique sound
We’re a plugin (and a DAW)
Nuff said really. :puf_smile:
Sure, that looks awful from a Reason DAW user perspective.

But at the same time, if I had just invested money into developing a new income stream, I certainly wouldn't announce and then shut up about it.

The last thing RS would want is for the majority of potential customers not even knowing that they could use Reason's offerings inside their existent workflow.

RS certainly delivers where they have promised and intented. It's the silence that gets to most users. They have vaguely promised workflow enhancements.

I guess an email notice to existing customers as to a road map for their DAW could go a long way in dampening the pitchforks in this forum.

MaMue
Posts: 27
Joined: 14 Jan 2021

Post 10 Jun 2021

We’re a plugin (and a DAW)

Who is responsible for this self destroying marketing of a long running and worldwide loved product?...OMG this is unbelievable.
Last edited by MaMue on 10 Jun 2021, edited 2 times in total.

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avasopht
Posts: 2332
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 10 Jun 2021

DaveyG wrote:
10 Jun 2021
Right now, on the RS home page the first three headings, in a huge font, are:
Plug in Reason. The ultimate plugin for music makers.
Plug in Reason to find your own unique sound
We’re a plugin (and a DAW)
Nuff said really. :puf_smile:
I came across that today and my thinking was just that it's marketing to attract users of other DAWs to adopt Reason as a plug-in.

When marketing you tailor your message to target groups.

Targeting users using another DAW doesn't mean Reason standalone has to suffer.

Maschine is also a standalone music making application as well as a VST plugin.

I would read too much into the wording as an indication of what they have in store for Reason standalone.
---

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 2431
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 10 Jun 2021

I hope they will fix that upside down eraser icon. It has always rubbed me the wrong way.
757365206c6f67696320746f207365656b20616e73776572732075736520726561736f6e20746f2066696e6420776973646f6d

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Billy+
Posts: 2107
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 10 Jun 2021

I see nothing wrong with this
IMG_2722.JPG
But I would really appreciate if we got something newsworthy about the DAW side of things, especially as the last update to 11 has caused an issue with recording audio in the DAW and will end up being left like it....
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bak
Posts: 11
Joined: 03 May 2015

Post 10 Jun 2021

It seem like the diehard fans of reason are having a fallout. I don't blame them, Reason business model isn't interested in keep them around. They seem to be interested is acquiring a new fan base. With shinny new toys. I am all for new toys. Just wished the workflow improves or communicate that it is on the works. As for reason 12 all I'm really excited for is combinator 2.

Marc64
Posts: 604
Joined: 24 Jan 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 10 Jun 2021

Saying that reason is a Plugin first is just a kick in the face for us reason daw users!

Reason is a DAW first of all, second a plugin. But maybe the props can shed a light on THAT subject?

I love reason but it feels like they are fasing out the daw to just be a plugin. If that is the case I want a total refound of Reason and all the RE's I bought and heading over to Renoise instead...

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 2084
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Norway

Post 10 Jun 2021

Marc, I'm positive they've always thought of themselves as an instrument company first. They happen to have a daw attached, and they work on it, but it isn't the main thing.

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MrFigg
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Post 10 Jun 2021

Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021
the last update to 11 has caused an issue with recording audio in the DAW and will end up being left like it....
What issue?
丰2ॐ

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Billy+
Posts: 2107
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 10 Jun 2021

MrFigg wrote:
10 Jun 2021
Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021
the last update to 11 has caused an issue with recording audio in the DAW and will end up being left like it....
What issue?
Latency issue
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Billy+
Posts: 2107
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Post 10 Jun 2021



Give it a try and see if you experience it.

Challism included it here:-
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7523451
challism wrote:
09 Jun 2021
Some of these links can be difficult to find, so I decided to put them all together in one list

Reason Studios
Authorizer: https://help.reasonstudios.com/hc/en-us ... r-Download
Code Meter: https://www.reasonstudios.com/download-codemeter
Companion: https://www.reasonstudios.com/plus/subscriber
Previous versions of Reason: https://www.reasonstudios.com/en/reason/updates
Previous version of Suite: 11.3.4 https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/reason-suite1134 (without the latency issue)
Refill Packer: https://help.reasonstudios.com/hc/en-us ... ill-Packer
Search ReasonStudio.com: https://www.reasonstudios.com/search

Related
ASIO4ALL: https://www.asio4all.org/
LoopMIDI: https://www.tobias-erichsen.de/software/loopmidi.html
MIDIOX: http://www.midiox.com/
Snappy Driver Installer: https://sdi-tool.org/download/
Virtual Audio Cables: https://vb-audio.com/Cable/
Virtual Audio Mixer: https://vb-audio.com/Voicemeeter/index.htm
And a couple of users have confirmed it, I'm still running an older build so don't experience it....
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MrFigg
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Post 10 Jun 2021

Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021
MrFigg wrote:
10 Jun 2021


What issue?
Latency issue
Hmm. Wasn’t aware.
丰2ॐ

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 2084
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Norway

Post 10 Jun 2021

MrFigg wrote:
10 Jun 2021
Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021


Latency issue
Hmm. Wasn’t aware.
Neither was I.

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Billy+
Posts: 2107
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 10 Jun 2021

MrFigg wrote:
10 Jun 2021
Hmm. Wasn’t aware.
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
10 Jun 2021
Neither was I.
Maybe you should both test and report back...
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orthodox
RE Developer
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Post 10 Jun 2021

Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021


Give it a try and see if you experience it.
This is not an issue as long as you are comparing the versions with DC on. The delay compensation will predictably introduce a latency dependent on the current buffer settings and nobody knows what else.

Could you compare them properly, with DC off? Unfortunately, I can't try it myself at the moment.
Active Reason+ subscriber with (hopefully) early R12 access
Reason 11 Suite gathering dust on the shelf

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Billy+
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Post 10 Jun 2021

orthodox wrote:
10 Jun 2021

This is not an issue as long as you are comparing the versions with DC on. The delay compensation will predictably introduce a latency dependent on the current buffer settings and nobody knows what else.

Could you compare them properly, with DC off? Unfortunately, I can't try it myself at the moment.
Well like I said, I can't confirm as I didn't update my suite version, however others have and decided to roll back to the previous version as it resolved the issue for them.
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orthodox
RE Developer
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Post 10 Jun 2021

Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021
orthodox wrote:
10 Jun 2021

This is not an issue as long as you are comparing the versions with DC on. The delay compensation will predictably introduce a latency dependent on the current buffer settings and nobody knows what else.

Could you compare them properly, with DC off? Unfortunately, I can't try it myself at the moment.
Well like I said, I can't confirm as I didn't update my suite version, however others have and decided to roll back to the previous version as it resolved the issue for them.
I take it they're just used to recording with DC on and were surprised that it suddenly didn't work as usual. The proper way to record is without delay compensation.
Active Reason+ subscriber with (hopefully) early R12 access
Reason 11 Suite gathering dust on the shelf

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Billy+
Posts: 2107
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Post 10 Jun 2021

orthodox wrote:
10 Jun 2021
Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021


Well like I said, I can't confirm as I didn't update my suite version, however others have and decided to roll back to the previous version as it resolved the issue for them.
I take it they're just used to recording with DC on and were surprised that it suddenly didn't work as usual. The proper way to record is without delay compensation.
Well challism started a new thread and included it in the post.

Challism included it here:-
challism wrote:
09 Jun 2021
Some of these links can be difficult to find, so I decided to put them all together in one list

Previous version of Suite: 11.3.4 https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/reason-suite1134 (without the latency issue)
That's all the conformation I need
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challism
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Post 10 Jun 2021

Yeah, I have been experiencing some pretty bad latency, too. My old interface didn't ever have an issue. I got a new interface and it must have coincidentally corresponded with the 11.3.5 update. It's happening with all versions after 11.3.4. Changing the buffer size doesn't seem to make any difference. I just thought it was my interface causing the problem. Kind of annoying, but I worked around it by turning off my room speakers and monitoring thru the interface's headphone jack. Then I just bumped the audio recording forward about 1/64 of a beat.

I kept seeing a lot of people complaining about the same issue, though. Then I saw the video Billy posted above (in a different thread). So I installed 11.3.4, and, sure enough, the latency is practically gone after adjusting the buffer. I don't believe you can ever true get to zero latency when running a live feed thru an interface, then thru a DAW and then thru room speakers.
Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021

Well challism started a new thread and included it in the post.

That's all the conformation I need
Well, I wouldn't go that far. I've been wrong more times than I've been right, Billy. But I will say that I have experienced this issue and it was fixed by downgrading to 11.3.4. I mention 11.3.4 in the post so I can point people to that post who are also having issues... just to make it easier for them to find the Suite version (since Suite versions don't show up in the archive list).
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Billy+
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Post 10 Jun 2021

challism wrote:
10 Jun 2021
Yeah, I have been experiencing some pretty bad latency, too. My old interface didn't ever have an issue. I got a new interface and it must have coincidentally corresponded with the 11.3.5 update. It's happening with all versions after 11.3.4. Changing the buffer size doesn't seem to make any difference. I just thought it was my interface causing the problem. Kind of annoying, but I worked around it by turning off my room speakers and monitoring thru the interface's headphone jack. Then I just bumped the audio recording forward about 1/64 of a beat.

I kept seeing a lot of people complaining about the same issue, though. Then I saw the video Billy posted above (in a different thread). So I installed 11.3.4, and, sure enough, the latency is practically gone after adjusting the buffer. I don't believe you can ever true get to zero latency when running a live feed thru an interface, then thru a DAW and then thru room speakers.
Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021

Well challism started a new thread and included it in the post.

That's all the conformation I need
Well, I wouldn't go that far. I've been wrong more times than I've been right, Billy. But I will say that I have experienced this issue and it was fixed by downgrading to 11.3.4.
And like I said, that's all the confirmation I needed.

Also the updates that got released didn't provide anything worth me updating to ;)
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orthodox
RE Developer
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Post 10 Jun 2021

Billy+ wrote:
10 Jun 2021
orthodox wrote:
10 Jun 2021


I take it they're just used to recording with DC on and were surprised that it suddenly didn't work as usual. The proper way to record is without delay compensation.
Well challism started a new thread and included it in the post.

Challism included it here:-
challism wrote:
09 Jun 2021
Some of these links can be difficult to find, so I decided to put them all together in one list

Previous version of Suite: 11.3.4 https://www.reasonstudios.com/download/reason-suite1134 (without the latency issue)
That's all the conformation I need
"That's just like, your opinion, man" (c)

I mean, it might be an expected side effect of buffer performance optimization in the latest version and RS won't recognize it as an issue.
DC will always introduce a latency in some signal flows, it can't be cured, so you have to record without DC in order to avoid it.
Active Reason+ subscriber with (hopefully) early R12 access
Reason 11 Suite gathering dust on the shelf

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challism
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Posts: 2703
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 10 Jun 2021

How will the signal flow be affected if the USA makes Washington, DC a state?
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