Reason 12 is coming!

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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dannyF
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Post 08 Jun 2021

mcatalao wrote:
08 Jun 2021
dannyF wrote:
08 Jun 2021
Regarding Track Folders :

The code must be so ancient and codependant between the Sequencer, Rack and Mixer. If it was easy or not to codependant they would have done it already.
2 or 3 years ago, yes. But nowadays with work done to create the rrp vst I doubt there is such dependency between the sequencer and the rack.
what mean by rrp vst?

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avasopht
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Post 08 Jun 2021

dannyF wrote:
08 Jun 2021
mcatalao wrote:
08 Jun 2021


2 or 3 years ago, yes. But nowadays with work done to create the rrp vst I doubt there is such dependency between the sequencer and the rack.
what mean by rrp vst?
The Reason Rack Plugin VST
---

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avasopht
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Post 08 Jun 2021

mcatalao wrote:
08 Jun 2021
dannyF wrote:
08 Jun 2021
Regarding Track Folders :

The code must be so ancient and codependant between the Sequencer, Rack and Mixer. If it was easy or not to codependant they would have done it already.
2 or 3 years ago, yes. But nowadays with work done to create the rrp vst I doubt there is such dependency between the sequencer and the rack.
I doubt there ever was.

Dependencies like that are typically abstracted away so that an alternative implementation can be swapped in and out.
---

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mcatalao
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Post 08 Jun 2021

avasopht wrote:
08 Jun 2021

I doubt there ever was.

Dependencies like that are typically abstracted away so that an alternative implementation can be swapped in and out.
Yep, agree.

But not forgetting, a lot of the application was rewritten for the VST performance in 10.4. I think (this is just a feeling) a lot of the work they needed to do for RRP was prepared at that time, and if such abstraction didn't exist, that was the right time to do it. Anyway, this kind of abstraction prepares you to follow different directions in the future, so it's a good developing methodology.

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Crumbfort
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Post 08 Jun 2021

Super stoked for the updated combinator and new sampler! Think there's any chance for the following changes to the rack plugin in v12? :

- 2x rack width (2 columns, at least)
- 8-16 audio inputs

If these features were added the rack plugin would be pretty much perfect (for me!).
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EnochLight
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Post 08 Jun 2021

Crumbfort wrote:
08 Jun 2021
Super stoked for the updated combinator and new sampler!
Despite my severe disappointment that the standalone DAW Reason has no love in 12, I have to admit the new Combinator could be a pretty awesome addition, and the way the new sampler is being described has my interest. I'm all about new sound design tools that are inspiring, and these two things seem to be a possible ace in the hole.
Crumbfort wrote:
08 Jun 2021
Think there's any chance for the following changes to the rack plugin in v12? :

- 2x rack width (2 columns, at least)
- 8-16 audio inputs

If these features were added the rack plugin would be pretty much perfect (for me!).
I suppose never say never, but there is ZERO info to suggest this will come in 12, or even 12.x updates. Maybe keep requesting it - direct to Reason Studios via their social networking channels like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube with every chance you get. RS doesn't come here much, and certainly doesn't take feature requests here from the handful of regulars that are active. :thumbup:
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

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jam-s
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Post 08 Jun 2021

epoch wrote:
08 Jun 2021
I'm glad that isn't how Reason works. In some ways, Reason is more like Apple in that you pretty much get what you're given - something that matches the developers' vision of how it should be, not yours.
I really despise the way Apple spoon feeds its followers/users. When working with any apple product I always feel like somebody took away one of my hands and half my brain. (Windows also has some of those tendencies, but it's not as bad.)

As already said in this thread. Those preferences are things you change once to your liking (if you don't like the defaults) and not something you constantly have to configure or batch about because there simply is no option or the often requested feature is still missing (like track folders, which coincidently Mixcraft also has).

coming back to the Apple metaphor: I don't think the lack of options in Reason it is by design but simply from laziness and/or miss-management of feature priorities.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

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jam-s
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Post 08 Jun 2021

dannyF wrote:
08 Jun 2021
Regarding Track Folders :

The code must be so ancient and codependant between the Sequencer, Rack and Mixer. If it was easy or not to codependant they would have done it already.
I doubt there to be many dependencies between the sequencer and the Rack. Heck not even the labels from the combinator buttons and rotaries are shown in the sequencer. If those were tightly integrated that would be a one or two lines of code thing to implement.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

MaMue
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Joined: 14 Jan 2021

Post 08 Jun 2021

So I decited not to update, until the WHOLE Software, the DAW, will be in the focus more. All the youtube videos, the comments, the forums on KVR and Reddit, everywhere people say again and again "we need sequencer updates / workflow updates....."

Maybe I will forever go away from reason now?

I just cant take this anymore.

I will delete my account in the next 24 hours.

Goodbye

Reason user since v 3.0

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jetpilot00
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Post 08 Jun 2021

adfielding wrote:
07 Jun 2021
I was going to post something long and rambly about how I feel about Reason 12 at the present time (and from what we know about it), but then I realised nobody likes a rambling downer of a post - so I'll sum it up by saying that I no longer really feel like the target audience for Reason, and that's both perfectly unsurprising and totally fine. Time moves on, things change, etc. Necessity has unfortunately taken a lot of the agency out of the question of "do I use the creatively fun software that I've enjoyed for decades and have a huge attachment to, or do I use something else that doesn't require me to fight it to get it to do what I need?".
Wow.

I've followed your posts for a long time on the Propellerhead site, and here, and don't take your summation lightly. It is how I feel too but not for the same reasons. For my music, I prefer the process and final sound in Reason than in Studio One but I have been extremely disappointed in the lack of hardware support of modern devices. Reason used to be included in the list of "supported" software. Now, you can barely find documentation on using third party hardware with Reason and there is usually a time commitment required simply to get it to work somewhat.

I will buy 12 and look for increased hardware support but if I can't find simple, out of the box, solutions for modern hardware than I'll have no choice than to migrate to Studio One as my primary DAW and just use R12 RRP. I am definitely one that has a ridiculous sense of loyalty as I've been around since 1.0 but I've reached the age, and frustration point, to where I need simple hardware solutions. The expectation can't continue that the end user of their software be burdened with programming code / altering code to get simple hardware compatibility.

As much as I love using Reason, I need RS to up the game on hardware support for me to continue on past 12.

-JP
***If life is a song, I've just passed the guitar solo.***

Carpainter
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Post 09 Jun 2021

I've been complaining about Reason for over 20 years at this point, but I still use it because it's the only DAW that faithfully emulates the experience of working with hardware. Until someone (Behringer with their upcoming free DAW?) steps up to the plate with a DAW that blatantly steals Reason's Rack and attaches it to a world-class sequencer, I'm here for the long haul.

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mcatalao
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Post 09 Jun 2021

adfielding wrote:
07 Jun 2021
I was going to post something long and rambly about how I feel about Reason 12 at the present time (and from what we know about it), but then I realised nobody likes a rambling downer of a post - so I'll sum it up by saying that I no longer really feel like the target audience for Reason, and that's both perfectly unsurprising and totally fine. Time moves on, things change, etc. Necessity has unfortunately taken a lot of the agency out of the question of "do I use the creatively fun software that I've enjoyed for decades and have a huge attachment to, or do I use something else that doesn't require me to fight it to get it to do what I need?".
Man that's a bummer (It also explains your Youtube hiatus, I guess). But i understand you, and tbh the lack of sequencer improvements for 12 is letting down too.

But on the other hand, i've done that exercise with Cubase and Reaper, and felt the times I spent trying to do simple stuff on those DAWs (specially when using them with RRP) was so much and the experience so convoluted that I always ended coming back to reason.

That being said, Reaper is so cheap and evolving so much that it just makes sense to get it on the side and my background with Cubase might diminish the learning curve.

Oh well. Time will tell.

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mcatalao
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Post 09 Jun 2021

jetpilot00 wrote:
08 Jun 2021
I am definitely one that has a ridiculous sense of loyalty as I've been around since 1.0 but I've reached the age, and frustration point, to where I need simple hardware solutions. The expectation can't continue that the end user of their software be burdened with programming code / altering code to get simple hardware compatibility.

As much as I love using Reason, I need RS to up the game on hardware support for me to continue on past 12.

-JP
Same kind of frustration here, not for the hardware issue specifically because my controllers are old as crap, but a similar feel about the sequencer.

Maybe is an Age related thing but the last 2 or 3 years have been quite hard on my musical throughput. I feel the lack of time and focus doesn't help. The focus on day work and kids and general lack of a musical project (covid was also a freaking hard twist of things for musicians, even the ones that are just more "serious hobbyists" like myself), make music and reason come in the last place of my priorities. I look at this, and remember the days I'd open reason and always had stuff pouring out, now I'm on an hiatus where all the new ideas sound the same and most of the stuff I do is 8 bar loops that never go anywhere from there. Sometimes i just stare at a reason blank project and think what should i do from here and then give up and start browsing the internet. It's depressing.

The only productive work I'm doing with Reason these days is mixing, and that kind of stuff is not enough for me. I'm a musician first, so I need to make music.

RobBarnett
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Joined: 15 Jul 2015
Location: Wirral, UK

Post 09 Jun 2021

jetpilot00 wrote:
08 Jun 2021
adfielding wrote:
07 Jun 2021
I was going to post something long and rambly about how I feel about Reason 12 at the present time (and from what we know about it), but then I realised nobody likes a rambling downer of a post - so I'll sum it up by saying that I no longer really feel like the target audience for Reason, and that's both perfectly unsurprising and totally fine. Time moves on, things change, etc. Necessity has unfortunately taken a lot of the agency out of the question of "do I use the creatively fun software that I've enjoyed for decades and have a huge attachment to, or do I use something else that doesn't require me to fight it to get it to do what I need?".
Wow.

I've followed your posts for a long time on the Propellerhead site, and here, and don't take your summation lightly. It is how I feel too but not for the same reasons. For my music, I prefer the process and final sound in Reason than in Studio One but I have been extremely disappointed in the lack of hardware support of modern devices. Reason used to be included in the list of "supported" software. Now, you can barely find documentation on using third party hardware with Reason and there is usually a time commitment required simply to get it to work somewhat.

I will buy 12 and look for increased hardware support but if I can't find simple, out of the box, solutions for modern hardware than I'll have no choice than to migrate to Studio One as my primary DAW and just use R12 RRP. I am definitely one that has a ridiculous sense of loyalty as I've been around since 1.0 but I've reached the age, and frustration point, to where I need simple hardware solutions. The expectation can't continue that the end user of their software be burdened with programming code / altering code to get simple hardware compatibility.

As much as I love using Reason, I need RS to up the game on hardware support for me to continue on past 12.

-JP
I'm a Reason 11 Suite owner and have been a Reason user since V4. I was recently considering taking up the R+ subscription as I have always paid for upgrades and get at least 1 RS RE per year, so financially it kind of added up. However, the lack of DAW improvements in R12 (particularly VST 3 and VST Midi) has left me feeling a tad disillusioned. Plus, I've been getting lots of performance issues with Reason lately and thought it was down to my hardware being a bit long in the tooth (Late 2013 MBP and Focusrite Saffire Pro40). So I ported a problematic song over to Studio One today using the RRP for midi instruments and effects and guess what, no pops, clicks or performance issues????

I too understand that a business has to make money and the introduction of the RRP will have increased revenue from other DAW users. However, the fact that RS didn't "finish" VST implementation as a point update has convinced me personally that the Reason DAW codebase is old and further development of it is on the "too difficult" pile.

It's a real shame when stalwart advocates like Adam Fielding are choosing to move to other platforms because basic features are missing - maybe this is their plan and their roadmap is to eventually become a plugin only company ??????

I spent £0 in the recent sale and at this point in time i've decided not to pay for the R12 upgrade. I'm watching the industry in relation to native Apple Silicon support before making my next move (although in the meantime I may subscribe to PreSonus Sphere @ £13 per month and get to use the the RRP and my VST3 and VST Midi devices). To me, history suggests RS will be able to recompile the RRP to run natively on Apple Silicon way before Reason Standalone (if ever).

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dannyF
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Post 09 Jun 2021

I cannot think of any other explanation for not implementing such a basic feature as folder/grouping in the sequencer If not for a complicated depenacy that isn't easily overcome.

Anyway, I think we are in a strange age. I think Reason can only go downhill from here... which is why I have not upgraded. I hear stories of things like delay compensation suddenly not working..... It seems they aren't really serious about Reason as a product but only as a profit vehicle.

I envision Reason Studeos has become a toxic work environment and likely with the change of owners conceivably driven by profits at all costs a lot of the original people have already left or are in the process of leaving.

Its going to be a trainwreck at the end or is a sinking ship a better analogy.

Really hope I am wrong. That is my gut feeling.

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adfielding
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Post 09 Jun 2021

mcatalao wrote:
09 Jun 2021
Man that's a bummer (It also explains your Youtube hiatus, I guess). But i understand you, and tbh the lack of sequencer improvements for 12 is letting down too.
In all fairness - my streaming hiatus has had more to do with being busy and/or not really feeling the inclination lately. The sequencer is, weirdly, one of the areas where I'm actually quite happy with Reason - I'm one of those weirdos who quite likes how straight-forward Reason's sequencer is, and I like that Players are used to augment/enhance the sequencer's functionality rather than cluttering up the sequencer's interface.

Alas, I recently recalled that - when REs were first introduced with 6.5, back in 2012 - I had assumed that Reason's updates would see more of a focus on workflow/core improvements overall, and I remember saying as such at the time. From that point, it took another 4 (and a half?) version iterations for us to get automation curves. There just comes a point where you realise that the improvements that you've been crying out for for YEARS still aren't coming any time soon (if at all), and also that they're already available elsewhere.

I don't think of myself as being particularly impatient, but when I see resources being diverted into areas that don't really make a difference to how I work seemingly at the cost of improvements I'd have liked to see years ago... well, it'd be silly for me not to weigh up my options at this point.

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EnochLight
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Post 09 Jun 2021

adfielding wrote:
09 Jun 2021
In all fairness - my streaming hiatus has had more to do with being busy and/or not really feeling the inclination lately. The sequencer is, weirdly, one of the areas where I'm actually quite happy with Reason - I'm one of those weirdos who quite likes how straight-forward Reason's sequencer is, and I like that Players are used to augment/enhance the sequencer's functionality rather than cluttering up the sequencer's interface.

Alas, I recently recalled that - when REs were first introduced with 6.5, back in 2012 - I had assumed that Reason's updates would see more of a focus on workflow/core improvements overall, and I remember saying as such at the time. From that point, it took another 4 (and a half?) version iterations for us to get automation curves. There just comes a point where you realise that the improvements that you've been crying out for for YEARS still aren't coming any time soon (if at all), and also that they're already available elsewhere.

I don't think of myself as being particularly impatient, but when I see resources being diverted into areas that don't really make a difference to how I work seemingly at the cost of improvements I'd have liked to see years ago... well, it'd be silly for me not to weigh up my options at this point.
:thumbup: :clap: :clap:

I'm reluctant to admit it, but I am really feeling the same way at this point. Will likely start to focus more on my secondary DAW as my main host (which is currently Studio One), and might dabble in some others going forward. I'll (probably) bring Reason's RRP with me, but I doubt I'll hold on to my subscription. Ah well, it was an awesome ride! ;)
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

deeplink
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Post 09 Jun 2021

I always hoped RS would put away with the OS provided UI - which always seemed clunky, and go for something that has a streamlined feeling, like vector graphics does.

I know people say Ableton looks terrible, but hey - all the components of the software looks intentional and fluid.

The reason F8 tool window, Sequencer inspector and the browser has such a Windows 95 feeling to it.

I was so impressed when Reason integrated with Record - I was blown away by how they could change up the software so much but still make it work (and backwards compatible). I guess it set me up for high expectations, but unfortunately it doesn't seem like much has changed since.

Who knows, maybe RS is actually addressing the above in R12 - and are simply marketing the headline feature additions.

I mean even if RS was adding track folders, marketing it like new feature in 2021 would be social suicide.

Edit: in the Reason+ announcement blog, they did promise workflow enhancements. So I guess we will just have to cross our fingers

MaMue
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Joined: 14 Jan 2021

Post 09 Jun 2021

It's really, really sad. I feel Reason, our old & loved Reason DAW, is slowly dying :(

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 09 Jun 2021

A bit emotional today aren't we? 🏁

Just focus on another daw, then, I'm totally cool and I switched to live for music making and mixing right when RRP came out and I'm super happy and looking forward to the new things Reason will bring 🤷‍♂️

🏁

slic
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Post 09 Jun 2021

MaMue wrote:
09 Jun 2021
It's really, really sad. I feel Reason, our old & loved Reason DAW, is slowly dying :(
Or maybe metamorphosing into something new....

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MrFigg
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Post 09 Jun 2021

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
09 Jun 2021
A bit emotional today aren't we? 🏁

Just focus on another daw, then, I'm totally cool and I switched to live for music making and mixing right when RRP came out and I'm super happy and looking forward to the new things Reason will bring 🤷‍♂️

🏁
You’re really identifying with that flag now.
It really makes no difference if you’re...
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PhillipOrdonez
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Post 09 Jun 2021

MrFigg wrote:
09 Jun 2021
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
09 Jun 2021
A bit emotional today aren't we? 🏁

Just focus on another daw, then, I'm totally cool and I switched to live for music making and mixing right when RRP came out and I'm super happy and looking forward to the new things Reason will bring 🤷‍♂️

🏁
You’re really identifying with that flag now.
It really makes no difference if you’re...
😂

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mcatalao
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Post 09 Jun 2021

adfielding wrote:
09 Jun 2021
The sequencer is, weirdly, one of the areas where I'm actually quite happy with Reason - I'm one of those weirdos who quite likes how straight-forward Reason's sequencer is, and I like that Players are used to augment/enhance the sequencer's functionality rather than cluttering up the sequencer's interface.
(...)
I don't think of myself as being particularly impatient, but when I see resources being diverted into areas that don't really make a difference to how I work seemingly at the cost of improvements I'd have liked to see years ago... well, it'd be silly for me not to weigh up my options at this point.
Oh but don't take me badly. I am one of those weirdos that like the sequencer. But no track folders, no track freezing and no auto punch in after more than 11 years of audio recording in reason, stuff that imho should have been since they created Record, shouldn't come to the expense of the directness of the sequencer (I mean, we're talking about a bunch of context menus).

The thing is I've mentioned this to RS too many times and as you said, energy is being directed to areas I'm not quite keen of...

The interesting part of this is each time I test the RRP on other software I end up coming to Reason again and again. The DAW is still the most direct path and the workflow I'm more used to is in this DAW.

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dvdrtldg
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Post 09 Jun 2021

MaMue wrote:
09 Jun 2021
It's really, really sad. I feel Reason, our old & loved Reason DAW, is slowly dying :(
We're all dying. Everyone and everything. It's just change - and it means there's cool new shit out there. Go find it

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