The new M1 iPad and future of Reason

[lzap]

Hey,

what are your takes on the new M1 iPad Pro and the buzz that Apple might actually announce Pro apps for iPads on the next developer conference?

Since Pros might be rewriting a lot on the UI front, this might actually be chance to get closer to the dream: full Reason on iPads.

I am not (Apple) dev, so I am wondering, how much feasible for multi-platform app is to get to that goal? (Windows - MacOS - iPad)? I guess maybe through some common graphic stack: OpenGL was deprecated, maybe Metal + Vulkan some sort of common stack. Definitely a lot of work, and its COVID.

Maybe just AUv3 Reason plugin for iOS without sequencer? But then integration would be lame, AUv3 have limited space and I do not think it is possible to switch focus.

I think I will settle up with MacOS M1 native support, high-res graphics and few new devices

[integerpoet]

I'll just leave these here…

• https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... c_catalyst
• https://developer.apple.com/documentati ... s-on-macos
• https://developer.apple.com/documentation/swiftui/

Of course, I don't know what RS might think of any of this.

[Yonatan]

The sign that you are over 40 when someone mentions M1 ipad:

http://www.vintagesynth.com/korg/m1.php

[Yonatan]

Ipad pro is getting really interesting now with thunderbolt, M1 and higher RAM. Like an MacBook but with touchscreen.
I will wait to see if Apple brings the new MacBookPro a touchscreen to be able to paint and point with apple pencil precision.
The only really bad thing now with ipad pro, would be the fact that you are stuck on a battery, then charge, then run on battery etc.
I mean, sooner or later, the battery will start to annoy your usage if you work on more intense pro apps for hours in a row.
So, if it is a work horse you want, it still best with an laptop or desktop. I only wished MacBook Air or Pro would get a touchscreen. Want Reason on a touchscreen without having to go to Windows 10.

[lzap]

Yeah its indeed technically possible but I want to hear your opinions on, I don't know, you think its gonna happen, you would love to have the full Reason on an iPad. Maybe just the Rack as a standalone app would be possible for the first cut, I mean, ability to play around with synths on my controller could be fun.

Yeah, I love M1, I only have Korg iM1 on my iPad but it's awesome and so much fun to play around

[Yonatan]

Yeah its indeed technically possible but I want to hear your opinions on, I don't know, you think its gonna happen, you would love to have the full Reason on an iPad. Maybe just the Rack as a standalone app would be possible for the first cut, I mean, ability to play around with synths on my controller could be fun.

Yeah, I love M1, I only have Korg iM1 on my iPad but it's awesome and so much fun to play around

Let us see first in June Apple event what they may say about next iOS15 on ipad, to see if they make Ipadpro get closer to iOSX. I would be surprised if RS did not decide to do anything with this. They usually seem to be Apple fans, and as you say, the Rack plugin on ipad would be quite natural first step.

[bpmorton]

Ipads are nice, but I wouldn't run my studio on one. I want a big PC that I can upgrade and repair. I don't want to be hindered by a battery or have Apple tell me that my machine is "vintage" so they won't repair it and tell me to buy a new one. One thing they are good for is a replacement for my sheet music/fake book at band practice.

[flexluthor]

I’d be shocked if Reason Studios has a ARM native version in the next 10 years, let alone a version for the iPad.

[chimp_spanner]

As much as I'd like to see it...I don't know if it's the right environment/platform for RS to sink that kind of time into. I've spent a LOT of time and money on iOS music making (with very few results if I'm totally honest). The main issues are that Apple, being Apple, will change things up every generation or two to the point where swathes of software or hardware accessories will just...stop working. Apps that people rely on for mixing and writing will just disappear from the shop forever, or cease to be compatible with an iOS update. It's *still* an ungodly mess in regards to how iOS handles files. Every time you load a file into an app you're creating a copy of it in that apps internal storage space. Still very clunky.

Course I absolutely wouldn't say no to Reason in my hands, and I guess with the HD UI there is the possibility for pinch and zoom. Personally though, I would not even consider spending new iPad money right now. It's about the cost of a new PC tower. As it is even working on MacBook has me kinda frustrated. The longer I'm on it the less of my stuff works. Bleh.

[integerpoet]

I’d be shocked if Reason Studios has a ARM native version in the next 10 years, let alone a version for the iPad.

What prompts you to say that? They made the jump from PowerPC to Intel, yes?

[EnochLight]

Yeah its indeed technically possible but I want to hear your opinions on, I don't know, you think its gonna happen

No, I don't think it's going to happen. Reason Studios have been pretty clear on how limited their resources are, and their focus seems to only be Reason RRP and Reason DAW (desktop) proper. They couldn't even get Reason Compact any more fleshed out than a basic toy in the several years since it came out, and it's remained virtually unchanged since 2.0 dropped 2 years ago. I say that with a heavy heart, as I was one of Reason Compact's biggest fans when it first dropped, but they really screwed the pooch on that one.

That said, the M1 iPad is clearly able to run a full version of Reason hardware-wise, so maybe they'll surprise us and do the work. I really doubt it, though, since not many people will buy an M1 iPad Pro. There are literally over a billion (1 BILLION!) active iPhones in use today yet RS seems to have all but abandoned Reason Compact's development.

[fieldframe]

The M1 may be more than capable of running Reason, but Apple's restrictions on iOS make it a non-starter, because there's no way to implement Rack Extensions.

Unless Apple changes its policy restricting iOS apps from dynamically downloading executable code from within an app, Rack Extensions are impossible on iOS, which effectively means Reason is impossible on iOS.

Every existing app that has in-app purchases that unlock devices (Korg Gadget, etc.) is doing just that, unlocking, not installing. They may download additional static resources such as UI graphics, but the code has to be part of the initial install.

See the App Store Review Guidelines (section 2.5.2): https://developer.apple.com/app-store/r ... uidelines/

[lzap]

What makes you think this cannot be solved? All the RE code can be part of the app, they will unlikely release ALL the REs, just those from Reason Studios for starters. It needs to be recompiled for ARM, customized for touch controls etc.

All the (sample) data and resources can be downloadable tho, including graphics. So the core application including all the REs could be relatively small.

Anyway, I know all of this is unlikely. It is just a wish.

[Yonatan]

Thanks for giving info that makes me refuse ipad pro for a while longer. Rather wish MacBookPro would get a touchscreen, but that may take some years yet. Better buying a cheaper ipad to paint on etc, and instead go with a desktop or MBP later.
At this point Reason dont seem to be fully optimized to the M1 processor anyway.
Only headache being too early on new gear that has not been adapted yet.

.

[strange_scenery]

I’d be shocked if Reason Studios has a ARM native version in the next 10 years, let alone a version for the iPad.

I don't expect an ARM native version to come soon, but I think they will have something by Reason 13, since they will be forced to, as Apple will not support Rosetta 2 forever. The original Rosetta was from 2005-2011, and I expect Rosetta 2 to last 5-6 years until Apple discontinues it.

[lzap]

I don't expect an ARM native version to come soon

There is nothing special about ARM, they just need to recompile Reason and figure out some solution to REs which cannot be updated anymore via Rosetta2. I would be very surprised if Reason 12 wasnt native.

[strange_scenery]

I don't expect an ARM native version to come soon

There is nothing special about ARM, they just need to recompile Reason and figure out some solution to REs which cannot be updated anymore via Rosetta2. I would be very surprised if Reason 12 wasnt native.

I would expect most audio software to contain assembly code for MMX, SSE and/or AVX, and if so, that would have to be rewritten to Arm Neon instructions.

[jam-s]

There is nothing special about ARM, they just need to recompile Reason and figure out some solution to REs which cannot be updated anymore via Rosetta2. I would be very surprised if Reason 12 wasnt native.

The RE format API and ABI are designed in a way that they can recompile all (even abandoned) REs for any new platform that is supported by LLVM, so they won't need rosetta2 for those.

[lzap]

The RE format API and ABI are designed in a way that they can recompile all (even abandoned) REs for any new platform that is supported by LLVM, so they won't need rosetta2 for those.

Sure but not all 3rd party REs can be recompiled, some vendors can be dead, lost source code etc. For these you need rosetta2, or they will not be simply available for M1 users anymore. We will see.

[Tweak]

As far as I know, there are no native instruction sets in any of the RE code submitted by the developer. All the magic comes transpiling the platform independent LVVM bytecode. This can be done even if the developer of the RE is no longer around, or the original source missing.

See lecture by propellerhead sometime shortly after the release of the Rack Extension tech which covers some of this sort of stuff:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcV9zLFzt4s

[jam-s]

The RE format API and ABI are designed in a way that they can recompile all (even abandoned) REs for any new platform that is supported by LLVM, so they won't need rosetta2 for those.

Sure but not all 3rd party REs can be recompiled, some vendors can be dead, lost source code etc. For these you need rosetta2, or they will not be simply available for M1 users anymore. We will see.

They don't need the source code for this. They only need the LLVM bytecode which has been uploaded to their servers during the release process of any RE which gets added to the shop or for beta testing. Then they just have to port their RE SDK/runtime/ABI to the new RE target platform like M1 and then they can compile new native binaries for the new platform using LLVM.

[Yonatan]

Buying an ipadpro highest model, seems to be overkill at the moment. Costs like a macbookpro. It could take until next ipadpro version until different developers have maybe adapted. Probably Logic users might get some advantage.

[Jackjackdaw]

iPads have been technically powerful enough for years and years to do whatever you like but iOS hobbles that power no matter what.

[DaveyG]

iPads have been technically powerful enough for years and years to do whatever you like but iOS hobbles that power no matter what.

IPads have not run iOS for about 18 months now. iPadOS is the new iOS and it has been renamed because it is diverging from iOS and modern iPads offer an astonishing amount of music making horsepower for the money. The new M1 iPads will blow bog standard PCs out of the water, including mine.
Exciting times.

[bxbrkrz]

I always thought RS' future was cloud based via a browser interface, making it platform agnostic. It's fun to imagine stuff