Sample rate export question (when purely working with plugins)

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Synth Street
Posts: 21
Joined: 17 May 2020

Post 01 May 2021

Question:

When only using midi with virtual instruments/RE Instruments (so no audio files or recordings at all)

Does it matter if working on for example 44.100 in the song itself, but at the export options set the stems to a higher sample rate,
Or is it better still to have the project itself in that higher sample rate before going to export options and proceed?
(so no up sampling occurs like it would with audio files)

Would be awesome to know this for sure. :thumbup:

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orthodox
RE Developer
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Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 01 May 2021

Synth Street wrote:
01 May 2021
Does it matter if working on for example 44.100 in the song itself, but at the export options set the stems to a higher sample rate,
Or is it better still to have the project itself in that higher sample rate before going to export options and proceed?
(so no up sampling occurs like it would with audio files)
I does matter sometimes. Some FFT-based devices may produce different results or make a total mess (BV-512 vocoder) at higher sample rates. The sound may change also due to different aliasing and intermodulation. Anyway, just check it every time.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

Synth Street
Posts: 21
Joined: 17 May 2020

Post 01 May 2021

I does matter sometimes. Some FFT-based devices may produce different results or make a total mess (BV-512 vocoder) at higher sample rates. The sound may change also due to different aliasing and intermodulation. Anyway, just check it every time.
Thank you very much for sharing the knowledge! Super awesome :puf_bigsmile: :thumbs_up:

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integerpoet
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Location: East Bay, California

Post 01 May 2021

Just for giggles, I checked what I've been running at — and could be — and sure enough: giggles

An M1 Mac mini's inbuilt speaker supports 96K. Because excellence! Yes, probably the same DAC is also used for the headphone jack, but the appearance still amuses me.

And my Thunderbolt headphone amp supports 192K. Because some day Neil Young might complain that he can't mix and master at twice the sample rate of TIDAL MQA. Because his septuagenarian ears can hear the difference.

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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 02 May 2021

The DAC might support those high sample rates, but the analogue audio path after the DAC will most likely not support those high frequencies as well.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

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orthodox
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Post 02 May 2021

Who needs those frequencies anyway? Are you going to play it in bat country?
The main reason for using higher sample rates is that it moves away the aliasing wall during production. The listeners don't need it.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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jam-s
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Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 02 May 2021

One use could be to have a cheap signal generator built in to test electronic equipment. But for musical uses in the output path there's no real advantage but to lure in bats or to drive off mosquitoes. ;)
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

Synth Street
Posts: 21
Joined: 17 May 2020

Post 02 May 2021

orthodox wrote:
02 May 2021
Who needs those frequencies anyway? Are you going to play it in bat country?
The main reason for using higher sample rates is that it moves away the aliasing wall during production. The listeners don't need it.
Haha yes exactly...My reason for asking was: During a live stream from Chris 'Airwindows', he explained that especially old vst synths that don't have oversample options putting the production on a high sample rate will remove the aliasing and make it sound more like a higher end synth.

DaveyG
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Joined: 03 May 2020

Post 02 May 2021

So on the one hand we've never had more powerful tools at our disposal, capable of crazy sample rates and bit depths and on the other hand a huge majority of music is now consumed via lossy formats, be it MP3 or streaming, and is played through terrible speakers or ear pods of varying quality. Go figure.

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joeyluck
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Post 02 May 2021

if you will be working on a video/film, then you'll typically want to use 48kHz

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zoidkirb
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Joined: 18 Nov 2018
Location: Brisbane Australia

Post 02 May 2021

Why don't you switch to 96k and listen first before bouncing at that higher rate?
There will be a differences, usually subtle depending on the synth.
Generally better because of oversampling, but you may lose certain characteristics that you previously liked.

Synth Street
Posts: 21
Joined: 17 May 2020

Post 03 May 2021

zoidkirb wrote:
02 May 2021
Why don't you switch to 96k and listen first before bouncing at that higher rate?
There will be a differences, usually subtle depending on the synth.
Generally better because of oversampling, but you may lose certain characteristics that you previously liked.
At the end stage of a song my cpu is already pretty high on 44...

I feel now there are to many variables and things that could go wrong . Also i am somebody that likes to know exactly what is going on,
so i will leave this thought behind.

Thanks guys! Cleared that out of my head :)

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