Is Skeuomorphism Reason's Achilles Heel?

[strange_scenery]

First... You just need to hit tab. It's not even a thing.

It seems to me that you're still using reason as if we were in R1. You know you can reduce cable klutter, rearrange racks, place them side by side, or put everything inside a combinator. Also if you were in analogue world you wouldn't put a tube tech comp, a tlaudio and a maselec near to a dx7, right on on the floor right? Tbh if your racks are messy, that's because you are messy, and you also can be messy in a top down layout.

While one one hand it is just hitting tab two times to flip it and flip it back, it adds extra steps, which no one else makes you do. Would you be annoyed if you had to hit tab two times every time you wanted to copy and paste something? After using Studio One for a short time I can really see the value of making things quicker, as not only can you assign most things to a keyboard shortcut, you can combine multiple keyboard shortcuts into macros, which you can assign to custom buttons or keyboard shortcuts. Also your point about holding shift to reorder devices, one of the reasons this is not obvious you can do this is because when you are reordering devices you are most likely looking at the front of the rack, so you can't see that the cables are being rewired. Having a top down layout doesn't solve everything, but I don't see how it possibly could be worse, and I think in many cases it would be better.

Your argument about not putting analog gear on the floor proves my point, this is not the analog world this is a computer, so you are not limited by physical reality. Have you ever used different fonts in a word document? You realize you can't do that on a typewriter?

You can put racks side by side, but in combinators, where I mostly work and what you get in soundpacks everything is still up and down except for the few half rack devices. I have not found reducing cable clutter to help since it just makes all the cables transparent, which is not what I want.

My overall point was not that Reason is irreparably broken, but that they have put artificial limitations that other companies don't have, and at some point if it hasn't already it will become a handicap.

[earwig83]

If you hold shift when moving a device, it'll auto-route to the new order. This ought to be default behavior or at least made much more discoverable. It's been in since Reason 1.0 and so few of us know it exists!

Part of the problem for me is the lack of consistency with regards to adding the shift key in the rack. If you drag a module into the rack with shift, then no cables are connected. But if you drag a module in the rack with the shift, cables are connected!

I always thought it was this:

Holding shift to bring module INTO rack brings it with no cables.

Holding shift when dragging module already IN rack rewires according to position, no?

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Part of the problem for me is the lack of consistency with regards to adding the shift key in the rack. If you drag a module into the rack with shift, then no cables are connected. But if you drag a module in the rack with the shift, cables are connected!

I always thought it was this:

Holding shift to bring module INTO rack brings it with no cables.

Holding shift when dragging module already IN rack rewires according to position, no?

The point was, it's not being consistence.

Try it, drag a RE into the rack with Shift, then drag that device with a shift..

First it's not wired, then it is, so there is no consistency of what drag + shift is.

[earwig83]

I always thought it was this:

Holding shift to bring module INTO rack brings it with no cables.

Holding shift when dragging module already IN rack rewires according to position, no?

The point was, it's not being consistence.

Try it, drag a RE into the rack with Shift, then drag that device with a shift..

First it's not wired, then it is, so there is no consistency of what drag + shift is.

similarly, shift is also for fine tuning of a knob or slider but also selects multiple mixer lanes, so I mess up frequently with that overlap. I end up changing slider value on several when I meant to click a separate slider and held SHIFT for fine tuning.

[guitfnky]

The point was, it's not being consistence.

Try it, drag a RE into the rack with Shift, then drag that device with a shift..

First it's not wired, then it is, so there is no consistency of what drag + shift is.

similarly, shift is also for fine tuning of a knob or slider but also selects multiple mixer lanes, so I mess up frequently with that overlap. I end up changing slider value on several when I meant to click a separate slider and held SHIFT for fine tuning.

yeah, this is one of the most infuriating things about the way the mixer works now. there’s no clear visual indication that you’re moving multiple faders, especially if one of them is off screen.

[demt]

Waser was there shifted no cables r there shift cables there know shift not sometimes ,hay.

[gbball]

I don't think it's that big of a problem. It forces some constraints into the workflow, which can increase creativity. I also find that each rack extension has it's own flavor/personality, part of which comes from the way to you interact with the device in addition to aesthetics. So while Bitwig's grid offers a lot of the same, but faster and more flexibly, you don't get the same instant character that you get from using Rack Extensions. It doesn't have nearly the same charm.

[ekss]

For me the hardware analogy is what I love with Reason. It’s kind of wysiwyg, very straight forward and logic, understandable and translate pretty good into a hardware setup. Sure there are more flexible ways but I find it liberating with limitations, a frame to keep you focused on what is important: making music. If you prefer other (more flexible) ways there is always other DAWs to choose from. But yeah, the skeuomorphic ui and workflow is really what I love with Reason, since 1.0.

[R303]

Skeuomorphism is a big advantage and one thing that led me to R5. Live 9 some years later was ok but Reason is absolutely classical.

I see problems especially with younger people.

Me too. They won't keep their damn bikes off my lawn.

Yep, Reason is the lawn, lovingly cared with the golden sickle, and Bitwig the kiddies.

I meant e. g. the FL Patcher, same types of music, current offer on the website and (sometimes) cable tangle. Routing is also automatic, not everyone knows that and then 'OMG'.

[Billy+]

I always thought it was this:

Holding shift to bring module INTO rack brings it with no cables.

Holding shift when dragging module already IN rack rewires according to position, no?

The point was, it's not being consistence.

Try it, drag a RE into the rack with Shift, then drag that device with a shift..

First it's not wired, then it is, so there is no consistency of what drag + shift is.

Actually I think it's perfect,

If you shift drag into the rack then the device isn't wired but if you shift drag a wired device it gets rewired according to the placement order - that's perfect..... I just wished device grouping wasn't the default but at least you can turn it off....

[mcatalao]

The point was, it's not being consistence.

Try it, drag a RE into the rack with Shift, then drag that device with a shift..

First it's not wired, then it is, so there is no consistency of what drag + shift is.

Actually I think it's perfect,

If you shift drag into the rack then the device isn't wired but if you shift drag a wired device it gets rewired according to the placement order - that's perfect..... I just wished device grouping wasn't the default but at least you can turn it off....

I think if you save device grouping mode on a template it will be that for all your new projects.

[Oquasec]

Reason excels as a plugin at the cost of many workflow enhancing features most daws had for many years.
---
Reason has ways to do things through utilities, which is not the standard way we are used to aka dropdown menu.
Is reason truly missing something? Maybe. is it enough to keep me from upgrading? No.

[adfielding]

The whole shift+drag of rack devices thing is interesting - personally I'd love to see an option to reverse the behaviour, that way people can set it to their needs and it might cause people to inquire what it actually is. As it is, I totally missed it for close to two decades (!) but I guess that's on me for not R-ing TFM.

For me the hardware analogy is what I love with Reason. It’s kind of wysiwyg, very straight forward and logic, understandable and translate pretty good into a hardware setup. Sure there are more flexible ways but I find it liberating with limitations, a frame to keep you focused on what is important: making music. If you prefer other (more flexible) ways there is always other DAWs to choose from. But yeah, the skeuomorphic ui and workflow is really what I love with Reason, since 1.0.

Totally agree. When I first got into Reason and I flipped the rack around, I knew I was going to have a lot of fun with it. Everybody knows how cables work, which makes the whole rack metaphor perhaps less daunting to get into initially - and then, once you know what you're doing, you can start experimenting with more unusual device routing. The great thing is that with the RRP you're not tied to one specific way of working, but as a fun sonic playground I just feel like Reason is an inviting space to play around in.

[Steedus]

The hardware paradigm is literally why I started, and still use Reason today. Hope it never changes.

[illlumen]

Bitwig's grid is I think the biggest future threat to Reason, as I think it is a complete re-imagining of the Reason rack. There are no extra steps to flip the rack around to connect devices and the signal flow is always clear even when you have very complicated routing. This can be a problem in Reason as once you have a certain amount of cables it can be very difficult to see what is connected to what, and very difficult to modify the routing. Everything in the grid is also 4x oversampled.

I thought about Bitwig, too. Reason's GUI and parts of its inner functionalities are really outdated imo.
The more I am getting into Bitwig the less I like the way I had to take in Reason for years. But it's okay in its own way.
I also gave up hope that Reason Studios will come up with something really impressive feature wise in the next time. But I stopped moaning and mocking around about those missing features I have been yearning for for years. Accept the things that you can't change.
I have been living with Reason (and all of its quirks) for so many years now - it is like having a partner that you've got used to. It's old and ugly, of course. But I love it. At the moment update feels unnecessary like a face lift. As long as they don't change the inner core, I'll stay with version 10 forever. Or as long as my system lets me.

[feedtalefour]

I've never used a 100% default preset it's just easier to get closer to a sound that's currently relevant without spending hours trying to figure it out....

[selig]

The whole shift+drag of rack devices thing is interesting - personally I'd love to see an option to reverse the behaviour, that way people can set it to their needs and it might cause people to inquire what it actually is…

Now THAT would be "perfect".

[kuhliloach]

Skeuomorphism isn't a problem unless it's accompanied by a distinct lack of necessary anti-Skeuomorphism. I think the most insightful way of understanding this is looking at why Ableton and Logic became the world's 2 leading DAWs. Both of them are beautifully non-Skeuomorphic ... until a Skeuomorphic plug-in is launched. This gives end users the best of both worlds allowing for a collapsible streamlined interface that can properly hide things when needed or show a large amount of needed information in a small space.

[altron]

Answer to the original question: No! Never! I can't stand the dull flat UI of Ableton live! It kills my inspiration. Reason's UI inspires me.

[R303]

flat UI

No problem.
It looks good for YouTube videos, I've to admit.

[guitfnky]

I hated Live’s UI for a long time, but I love it now. the only thing I wish they’d give us is a pan knob and faders that aren’t just little triangles.

of course the ability to use custom themes is great, too.

[integerpoet]

My overall point was not that Reason is irreparably broken, but that they have put artificial limitations that other companies don't have, and at some point if it hasn't already it will become a handicap.

The DAW market isn't Highlander.

[EnochLight]

The DAW market isn't Highlander.

Obligatory...

[STIM]

Sometimes I think it would just be easier for Reason Studios to just start from scratch with a new Daw aimed at a 2020's user, using what works in Reason and changing what doesn't.

It does seem that Bitwig have taken this approach with their Daw. They aren't there yet, but will be in a few years.

[thedjjudah]

Answer to the original question: No! Never! I can't stand the dull flat UI of Ableton live! It kills my inspiration. Reason's UI inspires me.

I thought I was the only one who hates Ableton’s UI. I mean they have some cool effects but the look of everything really sucks.