The Evergoing entropy regarding the CPU use of our computers

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Heigen5
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Post 17 Mar 2021

I have a minimal set of software installed on to my PC (Win 10) and I take perfect care of it by deleting the junk-files, defragmenting it etc. Yet it seems to be slower than ever after all these years and some of my songs I created back then, without any glitches, start to crackle now, - when opening and playing them back. My i7 nowadays isn't sometimes fast enough anymore. What is the reason for such an entropy then?

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Billy+
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Post 17 Mar 2021

Primarily this is due to the ever increasing load that the operating systems are placing on the device.

Every time technology improvements are made some idiotic programmer has the notion to use the extra resources for some fandangled feature that although might look cool is actually just a complete waste of system resources.

Personally I would have been quite happy with a 64 bit version of windows xp

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Heigen5
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Post 17 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Primarily this is due to the ever increasing load that the operating systems are placing on the device.

Every time technology improvements are made some idiotic programmer has the notion to use the extra resources for some fandangled feature that although might look cool is actually just a complete waste of system resources.

Personally I would have been quite happy with a 64 bit version of windows xp
XP maybe, but as stable and bug/error-free as Win 10.

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Aquila
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Post 17 Mar 2021

Heigen5 wrote:
17 Mar 2021
as stable and bug/error-free as Win 10.
Is this a joke??

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Heigen5
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Post 17 Mar 2021

Aquila wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Heigen5 wrote:
17 Mar 2021
as stable and bug/error-free as Win 10.
Is this a joke??
No! In the last experience with Win 7 and now Win 10 I've had like two errors overall inbetween 8 years of using these OS's.
And even these two errors got a fix.

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Billy+
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Post 17 Mar 2021

It's not for nostalgia, it's just a simple fact that it did less in the background.

Maybe what's missing from the commercial operating system's is a lite version, one that simply loads and allows the installation of software with a development team dedicated to performance improvements not bloated features.

I'm a MCP support technician by trade and when I come home my preferred OS was always a light weight Linux installation and had been since the 90's configured with a dual boot for Reason running under windows with nothing else installed.

Everything else was running under Linux as the stability it provided was exceptional and virtual environments allowed me to experiment with other technologies.

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Noise
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Location: Lisbon

Post 17 Mar 2021

Out of curiosity, how long does your Reason needs to boot up and be ready ? (after the login ? ) And how many vst's (dll's) do you have in the loading process ?

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guitfnky
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Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 17 Mar 2021

newer software generally uses more resources (including OS updates). unless you’re running the same software you did a few years ago (say, Reason 8) on the same version of the same OS (say, Windows 8), you shouldn’t expect everything to run the same way it used to.

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Heigen5
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Post 17 Mar 2021

Noise wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Out of curiosity, how long does your Reason needs to boot up and be ready ? (after the login ? ) And how many vst's (dll's) do you have in the loading process ?
I'm still on R10 (will jump to Reason+ the next month). It takes about 21 seconds to start my Reason 10. I know the starting time got better in R11 as the rewire was removed. And I only have like 6-8 VSTs and most of them are the Cockos Reaplugs.

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Noise
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Location: Lisbon

Post 17 Mar 2021

Heigen5 wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Noise wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Out of curiosity, how long does your Reason needs to boot up and be ready ? (after the login ? ) And how many vst's (dll's) do you have in the loading process ?
I'm still on R10 (will jump to Reason+ the next month). It takes about 21 seconds to start my Reason 10. I know the starting time got better in R11 as the rewire was removed. And I only have like 6-8 VSTs and most of them are the Cockos Reaplugs.
I've worked on a lot of tracks with the i7 + R10, but it was a struggle, had to bounce a lot of stuff, just to finish one track.
My Reason 11 needs 35 seconds to boot + 600 dll's of vst, I'm now on a I9 + 3200 mhz ram. It makes a difference.
Also CPU's do degrade overtime with the constant 100% heating.

I didn't notice any changes in the startup of R11 (rewire gone) to be honest.

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EnochLight
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Post 17 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
17 Mar 2021
I'm a MCP support technician by trade and when I come home my preferred OS was always a light weight Linux installation and had been since the 90's
I read this as MPC support technician at first (which coincidentally also uses Linux).. :lol:




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SoundObjects
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Post 17 Mar 2021

I think the reason startup time is more about disk performance than CPU speed.
My PC starts Reason in 5 sec. But this is on a SSD disk and a i5 9600 CPU.
When comparing Intel CPUs it is important to inform what generation (ix xxxx) it's from.
A new Intel i5 thise days is much faster than an old i7.
To have a good DSP performance in Reason (VSTs,REs,etc.) a fast single core clock is to prefer.
The Universe Is Vibrating

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mcatalao
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Post 17 Mar 2021

My reason takes sometime to load because i have 6 midi devices and the older ones are a bit slow to load (load a config from reason when it loads).

But without these devices it's about 5 to 10 sec's i think.

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mcatalao
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Post 17 Mar 2021

Noise wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Heigen5 wrote:
17 Mar 2021


I'm still on R10 (will jump to Reason+ the next month). It takes about 21 seconds to start my Reason 10. I know the starting time got better in R11 as the rewire was removed. And I only have like 6-8 VSTs and most of them are the Cockos Reaplugs.
I've worked on a lot of tracks with the i7 + R10, but it was a struggle, had to bounce a lot of stuff, just to finish one track.
My Reason 11 needs 35 seconds to boot + 600 dll's of vst, I'm now on a I9 + 3200 mhz ram. It makes a difference.
Also CPU's do degrade overtime with the constant 100% heating.

I didn't notice any changes in the startup of R11 (rewire gone) to be honest.
That's odd, reason shouldn't be loading those DLL's at start. Only if you have a new VST.

Are you using a template with the VST's loaded?

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Noise
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Location: Lisbon

Post 17 Mar 2021

mcatalao wrote:
17 Mar 2021
My reason takes sometime to load because i have 6 midi devices and the older ones are a bit slow to load (load a config from reason when it loads).

But without these devices it's about 5 to 10 sec's i think.
Can confirm this, Panorama P1 has something like 3600 default mappings, it's the heavy-weight of loading times.

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Noise
Posts: 312
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Location: Lisbon

Post 17 Mar 2021

mcatalao wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Noise wrote:
17 Mar 2021


I've worked on a lot of tracks with the i7 + R10, but it was a struggle, had to bounce a lot of stuff, just to finish one track.
My Reason 11 needs 35 seconds to boot + 600 dll's of vst, I'm now on a I9 + 3200 mhz ram. It makes a difference.
Also CPU's do degrade overtime with the constant 100% heating.

I didn't notice any changes in the startup of R11 (rewire gone) to be honest.
That's odd, reason shouldn't be loading those DLL's at start. Only if you have a new VST.

Are you using a template with the VST's loaded?
Just tested it again (without the controllers midi)
#1 00:00:17.083 ( No VST)
#2 00:00:26.519 ( The 600 dll's vst)
#3 00:00:33.801 ( + midi controllers, 4 of them)

I assume reason must check it the files still exists in their location. Also, reason and dlls' are in one NVME disk.

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mcatalao
Posts: 1447
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 17 Mar 2021

Heigen5 wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Aquila wrote:
17 Mar 2021


Is this a joke??
No! In the last experience with Win 7 and now Win 10 I've had like two errors overall inbetween 8 years of using these OS's.
And even these two errors got a fix.
Windows 10 is stable, but it's far from error free. Believe me I work with it every day and have seen really odd stuff happening.

That being said, I'd like it to be more "controllable" about what happens in the background. Specially freaking auto update feature! Microtwats are always forcing new updates creating crap to solve previous crap...

Oh well...

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mcatalao
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 17 Mar 2021

Noise wrote:
17 Mar 2021

Just tested it again (without the controllers midi)
#1 00:00:17.083 ( No VST)
#2 00:00:26.519 ( The 600 dll's vst)
#3 00:00:33.801 ( + midi controllers, 4 of them)

I assume reason must check it the files still exists in their location. Also, reason and dlls' are in one NVME disk.
I believe it has to at least read for their existence and check for new ones. I'm quite sure it is not Loading any!
Oh and the fact you're using an NVME disk is irrelevant if you can't say the speed of the hdd. NVME SSD's can be as slow (if that can be said about SSD's) as a SATA one. So unless you're using a Samsung EVO pro or something simmilar with 1000+ MBs read/write, from 500 MB/s... It's probably irrelevant for reason's fast load speed.

TBH unless you're recording 64 channels at 192 kHz at the same time, your 500 MB/s write/read normal SSD is more than enough!!!

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integerpoet
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Location: East Bay, California

Post 17 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Personally I would have been quite happy with a 64 bit version of windows xp
That did exist back in the day, but if you were running it now you'd have been exposed to lots of unfixed security bugs all these years. :-)

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integerpoet
Posts: 106
Joined: 30 Dec 2020
Location: East Bay, California

Post 17 Mar 2021

Heigen5 wrote:
17 Mar 2021
I have a minimal set of software installed on to my PC (Win 10) and I take perfect care of it by deleting the junk-files, defragmenting it etc. Yet it seems to be slower than ever after all these years and some of my songs I created back then, without any glitches, start to crackle now, - when opening and playing them back. My i7 nowadays isn't sometimes fast enough anymore. What is the reason for such an entropy then?
Is disk fragmentation still an issue under Windows 10?

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Billy+
Posts: 1980
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 17 Mar 2021

integerpoet wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Billy+ wrote:
17 Mar 2021
Personally I would have been quite happy with a 64 bit version of windows xp
That did exist back in the day, but if you were running it now you'd have been exposed to lots of unfixed security bugs all these years. :-)
You're missing the point.

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integerpoet
Posts: 106
Joined: 30 Dec 2020
Location: East Bay, California

Post 17 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
17 Mar 2021
integerpoet wrote:
17 Mar 2021
(A 64-bit Windows XP) did exist back in the day, but if you were running it now you'd have been exposed to lots of unfixed security bugs all these years. :-)
You're missing the point.
Am I, though? Or was I just being cute and fun and sympathetic?

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SoundObjects
Posts: 71
Joined: 10 Dec 2018

Post 18 Mar 2021

integerpoet wrote:
17 Mar 2021

Is disk fragmentation still an issue under Windows 10?
Windows 10 is default using the trim function for optimization on a SSD disk.
This can be turn off for manual operation but it's best to leave it on.
Automatic disk indexing can some times advantageously be turned off for a DAW.

The amount of additional material loading in Reason upstart is of course also affecting the time to start Reason.
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demt
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Post 18 Mar 2021

Yup there should be a lightweight version!
Reason 11 suite ,modular rack ,squarp hermon ,nektar aura ,editerkeys reason keyboard
hear scince reason 2.5

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integerpoet
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Location: East Bay, California

Post 18 Mar 2021

SoundObjects wrote:
18 Mar 2021
integerpoet wrote:
17 Mar 2021

Is disk fragmentation still an issue under Windows 10?
Windows 10 is default using the trim function for optimization on a SSD disk.
This can be turn off for manual operation but it's best to leave it on.
Automatic disk indexing can some times advantageously be turned off for a DAW.
The amount of additional material loading in Reason upstart is of course also affecting the time to start Reason.
Good point about SSD.

When I saw "after all these years" ion the original post, without realizing it I assumed we were talking about HDD ("spinning rust").

Maybe we should ask our original poster: SSD or HDD?

Of course, if Windows 10 (or 7 or whatever) solved the disk fragmentation problem, SSD vs HDD won't matter.

(I have not used Windows in a long time, obviously.)

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