If RS drops Reason DAW, would you keep upgrading the RRP?

[PhillipOrdonez]

Have you considered taking up a hobby? I think you need it. Won't suggest music making because you clearly would never do that.

Have you considered posting about DAWs is my hobby?

I know it is. You need a new one.

[lowtom]

You need to chill mate, find something better to kill your time, because you are on the verge of RS conspiracy theories and those will just mess with your head

Here is a sentence: "Reason is the rack and you can use it as a plug-in or standalone with its own sequencer and mixer etc."

So let's study it together:

1. "Reason is a rack..." - no mention of "Reason is just a RRP", "Reason is just a plug-in", "Reason is just a bunch of devices" and so on. Reason always was the rack which you can fill with devices, it was it's main design and purpose.
No shock for me since 2001.

2."... you can use it as a plug-in or standalone with its own sequencer and mixer etc." - this means that you can use it however you like, in whatever form suits you and that is RS advantage. They saw that it will be good opportunity to widen the user base.

Nowhere in Mattias sentence, is stated that Reason is a rack PLUG-IN, like you are trying so hard to project here, on KVR and god know where else. You need to stop reading between the lines. There is nothing but empty digital space there.

BTW, Matias should really drop by and just end it all with a simple statement.

[antic604]

Have you considered posting about DAWs is my hobby?

I know it is. You need a new one.

Between full-time job & family, I don't have much time left.

But I'm hopeful RS will help me and I'll have one DAW fewer (less?) to worry about

But seriously, I'd love to be wrong because all I've written here still holds true. With my previous post I kind of hoped for Mattias "if there's ever Reason 12" Häggström Gerdt to come and say that I was wrong, that I misunderstood, that I have some nefarious agenda... But nothing. Since the day of THAT post, he vanished from here & KvR.

And I'm sorry, but one has to be naive to think such a scenario - RS dropping Reason DAW in favour of RRP and REs - wasn't considered and thoroughly analysed by them. Maybe this poll - looking at results so far - will give them some food for thought or at least a new data to inlcude in the analysis, because they can't obviously ask this directly to their users. And I can.

[joeyluck]

I know it is. You need a new one.

Between full-time job & family, I don't have much time left.

But I'm hopeful RS will help me and I'll have one DAW fewer (less?) to worry about

But seriously, I'd love to be wrong because all I've written here still holds true. With my previous post I kind of hoped for Mattias "if there's ever Reason 12" Häggström Gerdt to come and say that I was wrong, that I misunderstood, that I have some nefarious agenda... But nothing. Since the day of THAT post, he vanished from here & KvR.

And I'm sorry, but one has to be naive to think such a scenario - RS dropping Reason DAW in favour of RRP and REs - wasn't considered and thoroughly analysed by them. Maybe this poll - looking at results so far - will give them some food for thought or at least a new data to inlcude in the analysis, because they can't obviously ask this directly to their users. And I can.

First off, coercing interaction by making claims and expecting a response every time based on any claim you make is wrong and exhausting.

Secondly, it makes it difficult responding to someone who twists words and takes things out of context. What thread will you create next based on a response? They'll need to pass that memo around the office, have PR look at it, have the legal team look at it, and then probably decide it still isn't worth it because it contains words.

Thirdly, what stops anybody like you hellbent on this idea from saying, "Well thanks for chiming in and saying it won't happen, but we also were told that VST support wouldn't happen, so there you have it and here is another poll about what I decided was really meant by that response."

[antic604]

First off, coercing interaction by making claims and expecting a response every time based on any claim you make is wrong and exhausting.

Secondly, it makes it difficult responding to someone who twists words and takes things out of context. What thread will you create next based on a response? They'll need to pass that memo around the office, have PR look at it, have the legal team look at it, and then probably decide it still isn't worth it because it contains words.

Thirdly, what stops anybody like you hellbent on this idea from saying, "Well thanks for chiming in and saying it won't happen, but we also were told that VST support wouldn't happen, so there you have it and here is another poll about what I decided was really meant by that response."

1) I'm not "coercing" anyone. People can just not reply and not vote, which will make the threads disappear from front page within hours. Or you can just close them.

2) I'm not twisting anyone's words. I might be misinterpreting them, but that's different, because I'm not doing it maliciously. So far no one, not least Mattias, convinced me I got wrong what was said. Just re-read that post and notice how he only replies to what he quoted and what you think is "the context" in his last sentence, whereas full paragraph above it is about how they see Reason as a product.

3) You're being ridiculous and/or childish

[PhillipOrdonez]

Let us all just ignore this guy indulging in his hobby of being annoying about daws he never uses.

[guitfnky]

I mean, I agree we don’t need another poll or thread about it, but the concerns are very real, and perfectly valid. even if you set aside any one particular post/response as having been taken out of context, the totality of what they’ve been doing for the past couple of years paints a fairly straightforward picture—that the DAW side of things hasn’t really been a huge priority.

doesn’t mean it’s not going to take center stage again (I think we’re all hoping it does), but between RRP, the “you even get an added bonus DAW” with R+!-thing, and the unquestionably anemic pace of core feature updates, it’s perfectly legitimate to wonder whether they’re shifting away from the DAW.

all we can really do though, is take RS/Mattias at their word, and hope for the best. and, you know...speculate.

[joeyluck]

First off, coercing interaction by making claims and expecting a response every time based on any claim you make is wrong and exhausting.

Secondly, it makes it difficult responding to someone who twists words and takes things out of context. What thread will you create next based on a response? They'll need to pass that memo around the office, have PR look at it, have the legal team look at it, and then probably decide it still isn't worth it because it contains words.

Thirdly, what stops anybody like you hellbent on this idea from saying, "Well thanks for chiming in and saying it won't happen, but we also were told that VST support wouldn't happen, so there you have it and here is another poll about what I decided was really meant by that response."

1) I'm not "coercing" anyone. People can just not reply and not vote, which will make the threads disappear from front page within hours. Or you can just close them.

2) I'm not twisting anyone's words. I might be misinterpreting them, but that's different, because I'm not doing it maliciously. So far no one, not least Mattias, convinced me I got wrong what was said. Just re-read that post and notice how he only replies to what he quoted and what you think is "the context" in his last sentence, whereas full paragraph above it is about how they see Reason as a product.

3) You're being ridiculous and/or childish

1) I'm not talking about forum members. I'm talking about making claims and expecting responses from the people you address in those claims. And otherwise saying, "Well if I don't get a response, what I say is true."

2) Somebody is asking if the RRP could be sold separately. Short answer is: No, you have to buy it bundled with the DAW. You can't escape the DAW! Lol. So I guess by that statement I should also assume FL Studio will drop their DAW?

3) Am I though? I'm just imagining what will happen based on what you have said here. You know all about that

[guitfnky]

I think the FL comparison doesn’t really hold up, since FL has been primarily about audio sequencing from the start. Reason, on the other hand, has been about instruments and tools first, and the sequencer enhancements and move to a 3/4-fledged DAW have been in support of that.

so, it would make less sense for FL to drop their DAW to keep the plugin than it would for Reason. and it would make less sense for Reason to drop the plugin and keep the DAW.

[kitekrazy]

It may never stop lol

Isn't doom & gloom threads a constant on ReasonTalk?

At least I'm trying to give them a quantitative spin with polls

The subscription pandemic is on most forum and it's not just about Reason.

[antic604]

The subscription pandemic is on most forum and it's not just about Reason.

I'm not talking about subscription. I think Reason+ (or any other DAW's offering of that type) is a great thing for those that want it. Look at that KvR thread - I'm one of the 2-3 people defending it and trying to help explain people's doubts and questions.

[kitekrazy]

The subscription pandemic is on most forum and it's not just about Reason.

I'm not talking about subscription. I think Reason+ (or any other DAW's offering of that type) is a great thing for those that want it. Look at that KvR thread - I'm one of the 2-3 people defending it and trying to help explain people's doubts and questions.

There are other DAW subs yet not one of them are sub only. There is this make believe fear of a DAW being sub only.

[antic604]

I'm not talking about subscription. I think Reason+ (or any other DAW's offering of that type) is a great thing for those that want it. Look at that KvR thread - I'm one of the 2-3 people defending it and trying to help explain people's doubts and questions.

There are other DAW subs yet not one of them are sub only. There is this make believe fear of a DAW being sub only.

Again, that's NOT what this - or any of my topics - is about.

[QVprod]

Question of the century... How many more threads til this beats the "Reason Sound" threads record?

C'mon guys/ RPP is a content platform. There's very little in the effect of "upgrades" that can be done to it long term. Standalone isn't going anywhere unless another DAW maker buys them. Nothing to see here. There's music to be made.

[guitfnky]

C'mon guys/ RPP is a content platform. There's very little in the effect of "upgrades" that can be done to it long term.

not sure I agree. RS is really good at finding ways to develop stuff we didn’t know we wanted, until we saw it.

perfect example—many of us thought after Reason 10 they would HAVE to focus on the core DAW experience, since they just gave us a bunch of new devices. it seemed there was nowhere else for them to go. but 11 gave us the RRP instead, with only a small handful of core improvements.

to think they’re done innovating in the RRP, is to sell them way short, in that regard.

[Marc64]

I don't think they ever will do that. IF they do they are just PLAIN STUPID!!!!!

[sdst]

I wouldn't mind using the Rack in Reaper

but it must be the same Rack Reason has

the plugin is small, it doesn't feel the same

but I prefer they improve the sequencer

[integerpoet]

Mattias has been getting asked about the "Empty Rack" Reason version for a long time - including by me. I really want to see that version as it is a massive boost for RE Developers if/when it happens.

This is the first time I am holding that scenario in my head, and it might be a galaxy-brain thing, but…

What if RE developers could package their own bundles within an otherwise empty-rack DAW?

I don't know if it's a good idea, but it's giving me something to ponder along with lunch.

[zoidkirb]

There's lots of improvements imo that would justify upgrading your RRP in future versions. Multi channel midi, hd, multi column rack, some kind of integrated sequencer, an integrated SSL, vst in rack, new devices, and many small workflow upgrades to the rack itself.
Once they're done with all that they could start updating the actual synths and fx beyond all those 1.0 versions, much like other synth and fx makers do.

[QVprod]

C'mon guys/ RPP is a content platform. There's very little in the effect of "upgrades" that can be done to it long term.

not sure I agree. RS is really good at finding ways to develop stuff we didn’t know we wanted, until we saw it.

perfect example—many of us thought after Reason 10 they would HAVE to focus on the core DAW experience, since they just gave us a bunch of new devices. it seemed there was nowhere else for them to go. but 11 gave us the RRP instead, with only a small handful of core improvements.

to think they’re done innovating in the RRP, is to sell them way short, in that regard.

It's a bit different. I believe you're comparing expectation with practicality. People were expecting DAW updates and instead got a feature many here see as a separate product. RRP is most comparable to say Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol. Even if you consider the individual Komplete components like Kontakt (another content platform, the difference between Kontakt 5 and Kontakt 6 is very minimal outside of a graphic update for most people. Any innovation they could possibly do in the RRP will likely be content related, which means Standalone benefits as well. There's clearly far more upgrades that can be done to the DAW.

[DaveyG]

I think the FL comparison doesn’t really hold up, since FL has been primarily about audio sequencing from the start.

That statement couldn't be more wrong. FL Studio started out as "Fruity Loops", a purely MIDI affair with no audio capability at all. In fact, the lowest tier of FL Studio is still a "no audio" offering.

[VariableX]

I like these polls - they add something to the site and also help me see where my thinking lies in relation to other members

[joeyluck]

The numbers seem consistent.

What % use the RRP? ~40%
What % think updating existing devices is more important than features? ~40%
What % would continue updating the RRP without the DAW? ~40%

[guitfnky]

not sure I agree. RS is really good at finding ways to develop stuff we didn’t know we wanted, until we saw it.

perfect example—many of us thought after Reason 10 they would HAVE to focus on the core DAW experience, since they just gave us a bunch of new devices. it seemed there was nowhere else for them to go. but 11 gave us the RRP instead, with only a small handful of core improvements.

to think they’re done innovating in the RRP, is to sell them way short, in that regard.

It's a bit different. I believe you're comparing expectation with practicality. People were expecting DAW updates and instead got a feature many here see as a separate product. RRP is most comparable to say Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol. Even if you consider the individual Komplete components like Kontakt (another content platform, the difference between Kontakt 5 and Kontakt 6 is very minimal outside of a graphic update for most people. Any innovation they could possibly do in the RRP will likely be content related, which means Standalone benefits as well. There's clearly far more upgrades that can be done to the DAW.

that’s sort of my point—they found a way to add value to Reason, in a way that none of us could have foreseen. and yes, it’s a separate thing from the DAW, which is also my point. they found a way to not focus on the core experience, that again, no one saw coming. that can be a good thing, but it isn’t inherently so.

the thing is, we don’t get to define what they spend their time on, so content-related updates to RRP are absolutely plausible, even at the expense of the DAW, if that’s what they decide is important. I hope that’s not the case (in fact, I think it probably isn’t).

where I disagree is in that I don’t think content updates benefit standalone by definition. many of us think they’ve already spent WAY too much time creating content/instruments/effects/Players/whathaveyou to begin with. in my mind, without a ***serious*** push in the core DAW, any additional devices will be largely worthless—at least from a “should I upgrade?” perspective. from a technical “do I have more stuff?” perspective, sure, but that’s not the same thing as what an individual/average user may define as being worthwhile.

[guitfnky]

I think the FL comparison doesn’t really hold up, since FL has been primarily about audio sequencing from the start.

That statement couldn't be more wrong. FL Studio started out as "Fruity Loops", a purely MIDI affair with no audio capability at all. In fact, the lowest tier of FL Studio is still a "no audio" offering.

you’re literally saying it’s more about sequencing (that’s what MIDI is all about) than anything else...which is exactly what I said.

edit: just realized you may have been referring to the post I was responding to, in which case, apologies for the sarcasm. these things happen when I’ve had a few. ‍♂️