If RS drops Reason DAW, would you keep upgrading the RRP?

[antic604]

I read everything you type.

Sorry to hear that

And my life raft to Mars is not ready yet. I have time until RS15

Personally I think v13 will be the last one, so you might not have as much time as you think.

[bxbrkrz]

I read everything you type.

Sorry to hear that

And my life raft to Mars is not ready yet. I have time until RS15

Personally I think v13 will be the last one, so you might not have as much time as you think.

Are we back at the RS+only-for-all conspiracy theory for RS12 and 13 dropping the option of buying the software, or RS+ subs only AND dropping the DAW at the same time?

That's a lot of droppings.

[antic604]

Are we back at the RS+only-for-all conspiracy theory for RS12 and 13 dropping the option of buying the software, or RS+ subs only AND dropping the DAW at the same time?

That's a lot of droppings.

Shifting goal posts much?

I don't think they'll move to subscription-only any time soon, if ever. They're not in the position to be the 1st mover on that front in DAW space (or plugin space, for that matter), nor does it make risk vs. reward sense to take away perpetual license option. I don't mix the two. But you're welcome to make a poll/thread about it

[Oquasec]

If the plugin opens up projects in vst form, then yeah that'd seal the deal.

[antic604]

If the plugin opens up projects in vst form, then yeah that'd seal the deal.

You mean like e.g. you can open full MPC Software as a VST in other hosts? Or Maschine? Or FL Studio (I think)?

Perhaps, but that would mean that Reason DAW isn't "dropped", so I'm not sure how that's relevant for this particular poll.

[joeyluck]

Haha omg now I've done it by making a joke about this going on until R15. Please don't.

Also, can you imagine if they move away from version numbers? What will you do? Will you ever be able to free yourself from the idea? I have this image of you in a straight jacket, rocking back and forth saying, "They could still get rid of the DAW" and the nurses saying, "Who's going to get rid of the dog? What dog?"

[antic604]

Haha omg now I've done it by making a joke about this going on until R15. Please don't.

Also, can you imagine if they move away from version numbers? What will you do? Will you ever be able to free yourself from the idea? I have this image of you in a straight jacket, rocking back and forth saying, "They could still get rid of the DAW" and the nurses saying, "Who's going to get rid of the dog? What dog?"

Are you ok?

It's 3rd or 4th e-mail where you're describing your fantasies about me. That's not healthy. Or flattering. Or justified.

[DaveyG]

And thus the Joey vs Antic contest rumbles on.
Maybe the thread title needs changing.

[avasopht]

I don't know what's so controversial about noticing - and being dissapointed with - it?

This poll has 60% saying no, outright. So saying they'd all migrate at this point is no longer something you can say without being intellectually dishonest.

To keep rattling on with this point now would suggest you were never sincere with your concerns and really just wanted to push buttons, antagonise and be controversial .

So that's enough for me. I'm not a fan of that type of interaction

[antic604]

I don't know what's so controversial about noticing - and being dissapointed with - it?

This poll has 60% saying no, outright. So saying they'd all migrate at this point is no longer something you can say without being intellectually dishonest.

This whole poll is about a hypothetical situation where Reason DAW is no more and I'm trying to understand what would people do: the three YES options are meant to measure the "intensity" of how they're committed to upgrading RRP alone, the NO is pretty definitive, negative reply to the question asked.

Or are you saying I should've split the NO option into at least 2 "versions", i.e.
- one - for leaving Reason & RRP completely, and
- second - for staying at the last working version forever?

Is this what I'm supposedly "intellectually dishonest" about?

I never said 65% would migrate to another DAW, although assuming people want to still make music and Reason DAW isn't being updated anymore I can't see how majority of those 65% wouldn't eventually.

[LongFist]

Judging from the number of people who are still using Reason 10, Reason 9, and even Reason 5(!) I'd say that they'd just stop upgrading (nothing to upgrade to) and continue to make music using the Reason version that they have.

It's the unobvious but realistic conclusion that nobody has considered yet.

[antic604]

Judging from the number of people who are still using Reason 10, Reason 9, and even Reason 5(!) I'd say that they'd just stop upgrading (nothing to upgrade to) and continue to make music using the Reason version that they have.

It's the unobvious but realistic conclusion that nobody has considered yet.

Thanks, that's a fair point!

To be perfectly honest, I was more interested in reasons why someone would keep upgrading the RRP alone and wasn't expecting so many NO replies, really. In hindsight it should've been obvious that this is going to be the case and I should've included more "NO" variants or leave it out. Well, lesson learned

[bxbrkrz]

Are we back at the RS+only-for-all conspiracy theory for RS12 and 13 dropping the option of buying the software, or RS+ subs only AND dropping the DAW at the same time?

That's a lot of droppings.

Shifting goal posts much?

I don't think they'll move to subscription-only any time soon, if ever. They're not in the position to be the 1st mover on that front in DAW space (or plugin space, for that matter), nor does it make risk vs. reward sense to take away perpetual license option. I don't mix the two. But you're welcome to make a poll/thread about it

Is there a scenario where one would answer yes to your poll, but only using Reason as a DAW? You are using 5 DAWs, so that poll makes sense to you. I only use Reason, so I can only vote no.
Your posts are entertaining. I'll keep reading them

[antic604]

Is there a scenario where one would answer yes to your poll, but only using Reason as a DAW?

If logic means anything to you then no It doesn't make sense to upgrade the RRP alone, because there's no new Reason DAW version coming with it for you to use and you can't load new RRP into old Reason DAW.

You should vote "no" in this case and I've already admitted I should've added more options there.

[joeyluck]

The numbers seem consistent.

What % use the RRP? ~40%
What % think updating existing devices is more important than features? ~40%
What % would continue updating the RRP without the DAW? ~40%

I've already pointed this out. Of course different people will interact in different polls and for different reasons, but it's around the numbers I would expect.

[bxbrkrz]

Is there a scenario where one would answer yes to your poll, but only using Reason as a DAW?

If logic means anything to you then no It doesn't make sense to upgrade the RRP alone, because there's no new Reason DAW version coming with it for you to use and you can't load new RRP into old Reason DAW.

You should vote "no" in this case and I've already admitted I should've added more options there.

People make illogical polls all the time. No need to feel sorry about it

[bxbrkrz]

I don't know what's so controversial about noticing - and being dissapointed with - it?

This poll has 60% saying no, outright. So saying they'd all migrate at this point is no longer something you can say without being intellectually dishonest.

To keep rattling on with this point now would suggest you were never sincere with your concerns and really just wanted to push buttons, antagonise and be controversial .

So that's enough for me. I'm not a fan of that type of interaction

Nature is beautiful.

[hurricane]

Judging from the number of people who are still using Reason 10...I'd say that they'd just stop upgrading (nothing to upgrade to) and continue to make music using the Reason version that they have.

Yup, this is me and I'm, fine with that. Still on 10 and it's not like I'm currently missing out on anything substantial anyway. I'll never be one of those idiots who are like "well I'm just going to update to support them". So dumb.

[avasopht]

Nature is beautiful.

Brilliant.

Makes you wonder: how much of everyday interaction comes down to human beings acting out what a more advanced form of sentience would have first thought out in their head? and we just don't realize it because everyone else is also just as equally impaired except, of course, for Elon Musk (the one-eyed king in this land of the blind).

[ShelLuser]

Now, while I definitely understand some of the critical comments raised towards antic I also think that he raises a valid point here. Not a popular point it seems, understandable, but IMO it's too easy to dismiss stuff you don't like to hear as something dumb or stupid. See, if it really was so dumb as you claim then why do you "lower" yourself to the same level?

Sure, right now I'm doing the exact same thing (sorta) so here is my argument why I think this poll has value:

Here I am (time of writing) looking at youtube and a new Reason Studio video appears to be scheduled for live streaming. It's title: "Customizing Reason+ Sound Packs". That sounds somewhat peculiar to me but on its own.. I suppose I see the idea here: those soundpacks are only available when you have a Reason+ subscription. Fair enough.

But then I remember this other video: "Reason+, sound like you" (link) which makes it seem as if Reason Studio is treating the whole "Reason+" thing as a product of its own, not merely a subscription model. This impression (which is all it is!) is emphasized for me when looking at the Reason Studios website.

In all fairness: they did make it clear enough that you can also just buy Reason, true that.

But at the same time they're also weighing Reason against Reason+, as if you're dealing with 2 individual products. I mean... "57 instruments & effects" vs. "70+ instruments & effects" anyone? While the comparison itself is fully true it also implies that you get more with Reason+ even though you can get access to the same amount of stuff when just buying Reason itself, but for a higher price. Of course that detail gets fully buried here.

Then there's something else bugging me when looking at the recent Youtube videos from R.S.: "Getting Reason to work in Logic Pro X" and "Getting Reason to work in FL Studio". But... essentially they're referring to the RRP.

So within that context I have to admit that I don't think that the idea behind this poll is as stupid or far fetched as some claim. While I do agree that it's a bit childish to call out specific members of the R.S. team like that (in my opinion anyway) I can also respect antic's motivation behind doing so. I don't agree, sure, but at least he can bring arguments to the table.

Sorry, had to get this out of my system first.

Then, for the poll itself... To be very honest I'm quite convinced that I won't be upgrading to Reason 12 anyway. The magic is gone for me, it's as simple as that. The main reason I upgraded was because I could gain access to more stuff to play with. I still remember Reason 6 to this day: Pulveriser, The Echo & Alligator, OMG, the fun I had with that stuff (and still have today!). Ever tried to run an orchestral score through Pulveriser and/or Alligator? And no, I don't mean the toys R.S. has but the professional stuff as provided by Native Instruments.

But these days new devices get launched as RE's. If I wanted to I could pick up on Algorithm today and use it in Reason 11. Heck, I could even use this in Reason 10 if I really wanted to (but I ended up de-installing that version). So why should I upgrade to Reason 12 when any new devices (if any) will be made available outside the DAW anyway?

When Algorithm came out I had a choice: Algoritm for E 110 or 9 new Maschine expansions for E 99. I picked the latter....

[bxbrkrz]

Nature is beautiful.

Brilliant.

Makes you wonder: how much of everyday interaction comes down to human beings acting out what a more advanced form of sentience would have first thought out in their head? and we just don't realize it because everyone else is also just as equally impaired except, of course, for Elon Musk (the one-eyed king in this land of the blind).

If I remember correctly that discussion came from the NPC meme. Some people in real life may be just like non playing characters in a video game.
Funny, Elon believes Reality could be a simulation. Maybe his algorithm is to believe that, and share it with the rest of us.
Maybe the simulation needed a tool to bring more humans to be on Mars, in less than 9 years, of course.
Thus Elon was created by the [master_coder]

[QVprod]

When (well, before I imagine) Verdane purchased Propellerhead I think the assesment was simple:
1) they have a pretty great abstracted RE tech, that is hardware & OS independent, so we can expand to hardware, web, etc.
2) they have a shop where they centrally manage files hosting, piracy protection and licencing for both native & 3rd party REs;
3) they have a 500+ strong RE library that can't be re-sold
4) they still have a sizeable user base that somehow stayed with Props despite no real DAW development to speak of
5) so, apparently, the users are in with them for the Rack and REs ( Mattias' "Rack *is* the product" )

From that it's a simple & straightforward conclusion to say: "well, lets then make the Rack & REs available to everyone - current & new users alike, regardless of the host they're in - and ditch the Reason DAW, because it's been neglected for years and catching up to Ableton, FL and Logic would cost too much anyway. And we won't have to hear all the batch & moaning about Sequencer & Mixer any longer."

I don't know what's so controversial about noticing - and being dissapointed with - it?

The problem with this thought, as mentioned before, is that Rewire already offered most of this. The workflow was just clunky since you had to manage two different files. I know you’re relatively new, having gotten into Reason around 2017, but Rack Extensions (instruments and technically even players) have always been usable within other DAW sequencers. You keep talking about the RRP as if it’s an entirely new concept. It’s not. Whether you care for the change or not, it’s the successor to Rewire.

[QVprod]

Now, while I definitely understand some of the critical comments raised towards antic I also think that he raises a valid point here. Not a popular point it seems, understandable, but IMO it's too easy to dismiss stuff you don't like to hear as something dumb or stupid. See, if it really was so dumb as you claim then why do you "lower" yourself to the same level?

Sure, right now I'm doing the exact same thing (sorta) so here is my argument why I think this poll has value:

Here I am (time of writing) looking at youtube and a new Reason Studio video appears to be scheduled for live streaming. It's title: "Customizing Reason+ Sound Packs". That sounds somewhat peculiar to me but on its own.. I suppose I see the idea here: those soundpacks are only available when you have a Reason+ subscription. Fair enough.

But then I remember this other video: "Reason+, sound like you" (link) which makes it seem as if Reason Studio is treating the whole "Reason+" thing as a product of its own, not merely a subscription model. This impression (which is all it is!) is emphasized for me when looking at the Reason Studios website

It is a product of its own in a sense. And it’s the newest product having only been out less than 2 months. R11 as a product itself is pushing 2 years old. The website makes sense in that regard as all companies will push their newest product. As far as concerns of the DAW being dropped, R+ applies to both Standalone as well as RPP. Also keep in mind that RPP was simply the marquee feature of R11 like Europa and Grain were in R10. I’m sure we’ll see things balance out more in R12.

[antic604]

The problem with this thought, as mentioned before, is that Rewire already offered most of this. The workflow was just clunky since you had to manage two different files. I know you’re relatively new, having gotten into Reason around 2017, but Rack Extensions (instruments and technically even players) have always been usable within other DAW sequencers. You keep talking about the RRP as if it’s an entirely new concept. It’s not. Whether you care for the change or not, it’s the successor to Rewire.

Are there any stats on how many users actually used ReWire? For RRP it's supposed to be 40% after a year of its presence on the market, so they must've done something markedly better with the user experience, right?

[bxbrkrz]

Somebody told me from the 40%, 74% of RRP users were using Rewire on Ableton 29% of the time, but only when the Moon was 50% full. That somebody is almost right most of the time, depending on the time zone.