Mattias: "Reason is the rack and you can use it as a plug-in or standalone with its own sequencer and mixer etc."

[antic604]

You guys should sell reason rack vst separately with some instruments included .

Thanks for the feedback!

To be frank, it'd probably just be the same price as buying Reason today though. Reason is the rack and you can use it as a plug-in or standalone with its own sequencer and mixer etc., similar to how you can use Reaktor standalone or as a plug-in or use FL Studio standalone or as a plug-in but you only buy one product. At least that's how we think about the product.

Regarding some kind of "empty rack", appreciate the feedback on that, too.

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p8047683

I know it's nothing new & it has been said here & elsewhere multiple times, but it was never articulated so loud & clear by RS themselves

[bitley]

When I tried it in Logic I realised it needs presets. These would come with attractive graphics as veritable mega synths - say an instrument preset like SUB8X which can be opened and edited in detail if wanted; 8 Subtractors fronted by a front panel coming across as a single plugin / instrument.

[zoidkirb]

Not controversial IMO, without the amazing Rack, Reason is just another average DAW.

I only wish RS was more INTO the rack concept themselves, and we didn't have things like cable-less Player devices with no CV in/out, instruments like Complex-1 with only a single pair of CV in/out.
I'm sure if they thought hard about things there would be some possible improvements to be made in the way the Rack slots together and in the auto cabling system.
Perhaps have a look at other modern rack systems like VCV and Voltage Modular to get a few ideas.

[bitley]

I know for a fact they think hard about things.

[zoidkirb]

Hah ok then, a good hard think about things and then some action please

[antic604]

...without the amazing Rack, Reason is just another average DAW.

That's the point.

Perhaps for you the Rack is "awesome" and you don't care about Reason DAW, but for me - and others, I suppose - the latter is still the only thing why we're still here. Everything that Rack does I can do easier & faster in Bitwig or Live. But the synergy of Rack, Mixer and Sequencer was - and still is - bigger than the sum of individual parts. If sum of 3 elements is bigger than 3 - say 5 - and you learn that for the developer all of the value is only located in one of those components, then suddenly it means the other 2 actually have negative value. You know what business does with loss-making products?

If Mixer and Sequencer are basically worth zero or less than zero for RS, then any investment into them is a waste of money & time, which means from "average DAW" it will quickly turn into "subpar DAW" through "unusable DAW" and eventually into "not DAW at all"...

[zoidkirb]

...without the amazing Rack, Reason is just another average DAW.

That's the point.

Perhaps for you the Rack is "awesome" and you don't care about Reason DAW, but for me - and others, I suppose - the latter is still the only thing why we're still here. Everything that Rack does I can do easier & faster in Bitwig or Live. But the synergy of Rack, Mixer and Sequencer was - and still is - bigger than the sum of individual parts. If sum of 3 elements is bigger than 3 - say 5 - and you learn that for the developer all of the value is only located in one of those components, then suddenly it means the other 2 actually have negative value. You know what business does with loss-making products?

If Mixer and Sequencer are basically worth zero or less than zero for RS, then any investment into them is a waste of money & time, which means from "average DAW" it will quickly turn into "subpar DAW" through "unusable DAW" and eventually into "not DAW at all"...

I do like the sequencer and the mixer too. But the Rack is the best bit for me. I don't worry about you doing things faster in other DAWs. I can do similar things in Live and Cubase too, yet more often than not I just prefer the Reason workflow. By the way I'm saying the Rack is awesome, not that the RRP VST is awesome (it is cool but needs more work still)

[Popey]

...without the amazing Rack, Reason is just another average DAW.

That's the point.

Perhaps for you the Rack is "awesome" and you don't care about Reason DAW, but for me - and others, I suppose - the latter is still the only thing why we're still here. Everything that Rack does I can do easier & faster in Bitwig or Live. But the synergy of Rack, Mixer and Sequencer was - and still is - bigger than the sum of individual parts. If sum of 3 elements is bigger than 3 - say 5 - and you learn that for the developer all of the value is only located in one of those components, then suddenly it means the other 2 actually have negative value. You know what business does with loss-making products?

If Mixer and Sequencer are basically worth zero or less than zero for RS, then any investment into them is a waste of money & time, which means from "average DAW" it will quickly turn into "subpar DAW" through "unusable DAW" and eventually into "not DAW at all"...

You may be right but just as another perspective when I read that on kvr I assumed he was just speaking about what reason started like in 1.0 as a equipment rack. Reason has always been the rack and mixer etc came later.

That said I totally see your viewpoint and I have a few concerns that if selling subs and creating more rack extensions/soundpacks is more financially viable it may make it less commercially worthwhile to spend a lot of time on the daw. I think they would need to know what their customers usage habits are before committing down this route (are most using rrp in another daw or are they using reason daw) .In my opinion we just have to wait and see how things pan out unfortunately.

[RoryM0]

When I first glanced at the thread title I thought it said that 'Mattias was the rack and that's how we see it'. I thought this was going to be a Mattias fan thread

[RoryM0]

This will be an unpopular opinion but as a full time Reason user since 9.5 and someone who is pro-Reason in a world of Ableton Live etc. users I have come to the conclusion that for me Reason is the rack.

I find the mixer page incredibly ugly and a pain to work with and try to use it as little as possible, always opting for rack devices for my phase/gain/EQ/comp/exp/gate needs. I'm glad I can get to panning, EQ and level from the mix devices in the rack, if I could just get to the sends I'd have no need to ever look at the mixer.

The sequencer is somewhere to sequence the pattern states in my rack devices and to automate their parameters over time. As an audio sequencer I detest it and treat it like a tape recorder.

Reason is all about the rack, front and back.

Something that I noticed with the recent release of Pattern Mutator was how it seemed to be the F8 window random/alter functions broken out into the rack. I'd like to see more of Reason's non-rack functionality brought into the rack!

Dunno how it would work or what compromises would have to be made but Sends/send amount? Get it in the rack. Blocks? Get it in the rack. The hideous regroove mixer? Get it in the rack, make it less hideous. Come on. Get me in the rack.

[zoidkirb]

When I first glanced at the thread title I thought it said that 'Mattias was the rack and that's how we see it'. I thought this was going to be a Mattias fan thread

First the Senate, and now the rack

[antic604]

Well, obviously for those for whom Reason IS the Rack a statement to that effect isn't an issue. Quite the opposite.

[Heater]

Release a DAW but ignore the DAW bit.

[Yonatan]

The real potential is the combination of Rack-Mixer-Sequencer. Reason DAW and Rack plugin could become the same and you choose freely how much of the DAW to use as a companion to other softwares. "Full DAW as plugin" is what would really blow minds. Oh, yes, ReWire is discontinued...maybe it should have been developed further. with more options. Or RS will continually get demands of implementing more stuff from the full DAW into the Rack plugin.

[buddard]

If Mixer and Sequencer are basically worth zero or less than zero for RS, then any investment into them is a waste of money & time, which means from "average DAW" it will quickly turn into "subpar DAW" through "unusable DAW" and eventually into "not DAW at all"...

So you're saying that the DAW part would get worse over time? How?

[buddard]

The real potential is the combination of Rack-Mixer-Sequencer. Reason DAW and Rack plugin could become the same and you choose freely how much of the DAW to use as a companion to other softwares. "Full DAW as plugin" is what would really blow minds.

Well, we're halfway there now since they turned the dynamics, EQ and master bus compressor into rack devices in Reason 11.

[Creativemind]

The real potential is the combination of Rack-Mixer-Sequencer. Reason DAW and Rack plugin could become the same and you choose freely how much of the DAW to use as a companion to other softwares. "Full DAW as plugin" is what would really blow minds.

Well, we're halfway there now since they turned the dynamics, EQ and master bus compressor into rack devices in Reason 11.

Bon Jovi's Happy.

[antic604]

So you're saying that the DAW part would get worse over time? How?

Consider the context of my reply.

I'm answering to a claim that Reason is "an average DAW".
All other DAWs progress constantly, so the average moves up.
If you're staying in place, you're falling behind.

[joeyluck]

How about a little context?

This is in reply to this comment:

You guys should sell reason rack vst separately with some instruments included

[antic604]

How about a little context?

How stupid do you think I am?

The context changes nothing.

According to Mattias, Reason Rack Rlugin (with "some instruments") would basically cost the same as full Reason, which simple math would tell you means that everything else - Sequencer and Mixer, specifically - are worth zero or close to.

Also, I provided the link.

[joeyluck]

From the other thread:

Where? Towards a DAW-less future:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7522170

Please don't pull this clickbait BS here.

Again, Mattias' comment was in response to someone requesting they sell the Reason rack separately. And guess what, you can't buy the rack without buying the DAW.

[adfielding]

I love the rack and it was absolutely what got me into Reason in the first place, but nowadays I am all about how the rack/mixer/sequencer all work together. Having a decent dynamics & EQ section on tap via the mixer whenever I need them is preferable to having to fire up a channel strip VST when I need them. Although I do think the sequencer could use some love and I'm all for extra workflow features, I honestly don't think there's anything out-and-out wrong with it like other folks seem to.

[dioxide]

The Rack is really the best part of Reason for sure. Without that I think I'd probably be using Ableton. That said, I'm still a Reason user and love the F keys for navigating between the three modes. I like Blocks as well, so I think I'd miss this moving to Live. I would like to see some kind of clip launching though, I've been waiting for that forever.

[turn2on]

Back to the future ?

Снимок экрана 2021-03-06 в 18.55.31.png (788.03 KiB) Viewed 4447 times

its a technical preview of course of platform possibilities.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/blog/runn ... on-the-web

Future of ReasonRack can be more interesting, like a browser rack, or rack for iOS..
Yes. Reason Rack is power.

[BonsaiMacKay]

I like the rack, that's what got me into Reason back in R2.5, but I almost only fire up Reason as a plugin nowadays. Standalone DAW or not, the rack is what makes Reason Reason. No Live user like me would want Ableton to do away with Session View, for example. Thing is, I could do without using the rack capabilities sometimes and would love the additional option to have their devices as separate plugins but they made it clear they won't be going down that route when they killed Europa VST/AU. If I decide to use, say, a Malström in a project, sometimes I would like to just slap it on a track directly without the extra clicks required to launch the rack and load it, BUT keeping the rack option when I really feel like going down the good old Reason modular rabbit hole would help to keep me on board. Have the cake and eat it, basically. As for the DAW features Reason needs to improve/implement, I won't be needing them personally but I appreciate these updates are really important for many Reason users, maybe the majority of them, who very often work directly on Reason.