Where is Reason going ?

[earwig83]

Does it feel lacking in direction because I'm paying so close attention? I see updates every now and then for other DAW's. I've got nothing invested in them so I just see 'update' without knowing anything about it or having any great interest. Watching Reason Studios like a hawk on the other hand. Here's my take;


1. Reason DAW - Needs some work, if only to convince people they still care! Doesn't feel much like it over the last few years. But so much to be done that people would really love to see. I love it as is. It's great. But if it's not moving forward then it's not moving at all.

2. Reason Rack - All the focus has been here. This is where it's at. That's great ...... if Reason isn't your main DAW. Reason as a plug-in has ZERO interest if Reason if your main DAW. It doesn't even makes sense, hence why R11 was such a lackluster and largely ignored upgrade for Reason 'Reason' heads.

3. Reason Mobile - Reason Compact. WTF happened to this? Reason's foray into the mobile platform, which should be great, seems as destined to failure as the foray into hardware with the fantastic but lacking interface, the name of which I can't even remember now. A real shame.

4. Reason RE - looked amazing, slow start, then kind of slowly got relegated to a small group of absolutely AMAZING independent developers (outside of Reason's own devices). I'd still take RE over VST any day of the year. But do Reason Studios feel the same? Impossible to believe they do. Not least since the shop has been relegated to the home page footer!

5. Reason Subscription - I can't express how much I detest software subs. On the other hand I can't express how much I love Reason. Somewhere in the middle I took the plunge and went for it! Maybe Algoritm, whilst still being on R10, pushed me over. 50% of for the first year and I suddenly have R11, Algoritm, a bunch of new RS Players and a stack of other RS RE's? What could go wrong?! :-/

...........................

Some nice thoughts. Regarding your last thought on number 5. "What could go wrong?" Well, you don't own those REs. I bought them outright over time and am happy that they are mine to keep. If I lose my job tomorrow, Reason and the REs are still mine. But I see that you also detest subscriptions, so you know what you are getting yourself into. I have to say that it is brave. Unironically, in fact.

[Faastwalker]

Some nice thoughts. Regarding your last thought on number 5. "What could go wrong?" Well, you don't own those REs. I bought them outright over time and am happy that they are mine to keep. If I lose my job tomorrow, Reason and the REs are still mine. But I see that you also detest subscriptions, so you know what you are getting yourself into. I have to say that it is brave. Unironically, in fact.

My work contract ends 26th March, after close to 6 years in my current workplace. That's another reason (excuse the pun) I took the plunge. I knew I'd only be paying $99 for whatever appears from Reason Studios over the next year. As opposed to $129 for a possible upgrade, $99 for Alogritm. I probably wouldn't have bought anything else I've gained currently, but that's already more attractive .......... at least until March 2022. But the human race might be wiped out be then so hay ho!!

[SoundObjects]

All those writing thoughts - use time to make great music instead - whatever DAW you are using

[BCsab]

Personally, I'm a bit baffled by all the disdain and worry about the future direction of Reason.

I bought into the Reason 5 + Record 1.5 Duo about 10 years ago, because it had all that I needed to make music. I have seen everything that has been added since then like a bonus.
If I hadn't thought the Reason + Record Duo was enough at the time, then I wouldn't have bought it.
If I had thought that an upgrade wasn't worth it, I would never have bought that upgrade.
I never buy software with the expectation that more stuff will be added to it later. Either it serves its purpose from the beginning, or I buy something else.

The only thing that has worried me a little bit recently is the possibility that they might eventually take away permanent licensing and go rental only -- That's it! And even that doesn't seem very likely right now, at least for the next couple of years. So I will worry about that if/when the time comes.

Of course, people have different opinions and expectations and I respect that. Just offering my $0.02.

I agree. I bought the Reason and other RE-s in mind that i bought an instrument like a guitar but instead of hanging on the wall it lives in my computer and have more than one instruments in it. If there will be an improvement in the software it is great. Luckily i have not met any big bug, and i don't make a living of the music making where the flaws of the program can be a disadvantage. If there are such flaws.

[Jagwah]

To all the people angry about reason: I support you and feel we deserve to be listened to more. A lot more. Especially the 20 year veterans who sunk thousands into this company.

To the people who say things like "if you don't like it stop using it or don't buy it then" or "it was never supposed to be a full DAW" Please stop. It doesn't help. Complaining does! It's been proven with Cancel Culture, that people complaining en masse leads to things changing. Now of course their are negative consequences to that too but it is just an example.

Plus RS clearly stated in the past in their marketing that this is where they were going, a full daw. They only recently started backpaddling because of investors and because their business model is finite. So they are looking for ways to extract money from people for shoddy and tacky strategies like making FM synths in 2021. My hope is that it will be in tandem with further DAW development. But not 100% sure.

I say, if the overly positive types really don't like seeing our extremely valid complaints, could we please create a b**chfest thread/section/sticky on this forum where those of us unhappy with the many bad RS decisions/strategies/choices recently can commiserate? I'd love that actually! And others would too. Some of us just want to vent to other likeminded people and not have to be constantly told that our reasonable concerns are not valid. If I wanted that kind of treatment, I would b**ch on Facebook or reddit, where all the corporate apologists thrive and shut down dissent and protect shitty company practices by belittling people who speak out. I think Reason Talk is a major step above those places but sometime I feel worried about being honest about my feelings about this platform and its current growing pains.

Great comment.

Hundreds of vocal people complaining about their frustrations for endless years on end, and we always get the odd person who pipes in and says 'It makes no sense you guys are complaining' and 'Why don't you just go away if you don't like it' which is just ugh.

[Bes]

hundreds?

[Heater]

I just feel ignored by the company. We’ve been asking for basic stuff for years (like track freeze) and the can’t be bothered. Over the years that builds up a fairly healthy and well deserved animosity against the company.
Not helped by corporate apologist on this forum who dog pile onto you to shut you up. Not cool guys.

Thanks for starting this thread. Been a Reason owner since version one. Always felt that Reason had our back until a year before the official forum group got shut down. The only time you see them on this site is to hock a new bit of gear. They never answer valid criticism. It’s a shameful way to run a company.

[VariableX]

I just feel ignored by the company. We’ve been asking for basic stuff for years (like track freeze) and the can’t be bothered. Over the years that builds up a fairly healthy and well deserved animosity against the company.
Not helped by corporate apologist on this forum who dog pile onto you to shut you up. Not cool guys.

Thanks for starting this thread. Been a Reason owner since version one. Always felt that Reason had our back until a year before the official forum group got shut down. The only time you see them on this site is to hock a new bit of gear. They never answer valid criticism. It’s a shameful way to run a company.

So many people feel like this. Reason Studios really should take note.

[bangaio]

I just feel ignored by the company. We’ve been asking for basic stuff for years (like track freeze) and the can’t be bothered. Over the years that builds up a fairly healthy and well deserved animosity against the company.
Not helped by corporate apologist on this forum who dog pile onto you to shut you up. Not cool guys.

Thanks for starting this thread. Been a Reason owner since version one. Always felt that Reason had our back until a year before the official forum group got shut down. The only time you see them on this site is to hock a new bit of gear. They never answer valid criticism. It’s a shameful way to run a company.

So many people feel like this. Reason Studios really should take note.

I agree 100%. I don't buy the "this software does what I bought it for" argument because software evolves and improves, developers pick up on ideas and developments from competitors to stay competitive.

Reason has not done this. They haven't kept up with the competition or followed industry trends, workflow models, best practice etc.

I often wonder if they just don't have the development nous. I have a computer science degree and teach computer science. I haven't tried but am fairly happy that I could create a virtual instrument using the RE or VST SDKs. Creating a complex DAW though is a different kettle of fish as the saying goes and let's be honest, creating virtual instruments and effects is easier and cheaper than creating a DAW otherwise all the indy VST developers would have jumped on the bandwagon.

I may be completely wrong but when you use a "modern" platform like Live, Logic, Bitwig etc. Reason is just so far behind. It really frustrates me as I have poured time and money into their business since 1998 - I promoted their software and have never stopped loving their core product despite all its flaws but they need to change and either pull the plug on the DAW completely or invest time and money into it and I just don't see the evidence. If they are they should be shouting about it to anyone who listens like they used to in the good old days.

[Tweak]

I too share others frustration that simple things don't seem to get fixed. Let me share with you my different, and more optimistic opinion on to this than those who say they are plain ignoring our requests.

As a software engineer, I understand how difficult it can be to develop applications, particularly code bases that have been around for decades. When I look at Reason as it stands now, I ask myself, why would this company ignore our requests for quality of life changes to the sequencer? The only rational conclusion I have come up with is that any change made to the sequencer right now, might need to be completely redeveloped to work with whatever GFX/UI tech they choose to use to allow the delivery of upscalable UI. In fact, this might prevent them from wanting to develop whole parts of the application, for not wanting to have to do things twice. Basically, the changes required to provide the high res UI might need to be a prerequisite to almost all other changes to the main DAW. It might also be the case the whole sequencer/mixer parts of the DAW require recoding to provide the UI update.

Why does this give me optimism? Well we know the next major update will contain a UI refresh for high res. If this is out of the way, I see no reason why development of many parts of the application cannot be delivered in an accelerated way following this, as any concerns around how to fit this into the UI tech will have been already considered and committed.

Overall others should not underestimate the difficulties of refreshing a 20 year old piece of software's UI framework, and the enormous benefits to the speed of development getting something like this right ought to provide.

[Jagwah]

hundreds?

Derp?

[Melody303]

Personally, I'm a bit baffled by all the disdain and worry about the future direction of Reason.

I bought into the Reason 5 + Record 1.5 Duo about 10 years ago, because it had all that I needed to make music. I have seen everything that has been added since then like a bonus.
If I hadn't thought the Reason + Record Duo was enough at the time, then I wouldn't have bought it.
If I had thought that an upgrade wasn't worth it, I would never have bought that upgrade.
I never buy software with the expectation that more stuff will be added to it later. Either it serves its purpose from the beginning, or I buy something else.

The only thing that has worried me a little bit recently is the possibility that they might eventually take away permanent licensing and go rental only -- That's it! And even that doesn't seem very likely right now, at least for the next couple of years. So I will worry about that if/when the time comes.

Of course, people have different opinions and expectations and I respect that. Just offering my $0.02.

What he said.

[Ottostrom]

As many other users I'm fairly sceptical about the future of Reason as a main DAW. I don't really see myself switching from it since I've used it for so long, but I can see how people new to music production might go with something like Ableton over Reason if they compare features. However, there is still hope. Just look at this point update video.
It only focuses on workflow improvements and adds much requested features. Although Reason Studios seem to primarily focus on devices they do still put effort into the DAW side as well.

[ortxedys]

The one question no one seems to ask nor really address is "what happens once I stop paying monthly as a long term user?"

Am I really just relegated to Reason 11 after that?

The answer might be simple to some. But it seems once you're in on the monthly train, there's no coming off of it. You guys don't own Reason anymore. Whether you see it or not. That's ok. But I hate to pump money into something I don't own outright. There's a bunch of counter arguments here. But we're talking about music production software now.

If you don't see any issues, carry on with what you do. But as been said many times on this forum "ignorance is bliss".

You do need the yang combined with the ying for balance, no?

[Melody303]

The one question no one seems to ask nor really address is "what happens once I stop paying monthly as a long term user?"

Am I really just relegated to Reason 11 after that?

The answer might be simple to some. But it seems once you're in on the monthly train, there's no coming off of it. You guys don't own Reason anymore. Whether you see it or not. That's ok. But I hate to pump money into something I don't own outright. There's a bunch of counter arguments here. But we're talking about music production software now.

If you don't see any issues, carry on with what you do. But as been said many times on this forum "ignorance is bliss".

You do need the yang combined with the ying for balance, no?

No one seems to ask or address it in this thread because this thread is not about Reason+, and the majority of us have made our voices known regarding Reason+ in several other threads that did focus on that topic. The majority of us are not fans of the R+ news.

[arnigretar]

I don't know. Some good comments on here. And I whole heartly agree with the fact that I am happy that we still have forum members complaining or asking for this and that to make Reason better. Because like Richard D. James "I care because you do" and the company must be happy that people care. However... just my personal feeling... I'm happy with the rack. The company. And all that. Of course I want this and that also, but I'm still making music with Reason and that must count. I like Ableton Live as well, but that's just how it is. may Reason live another 20 years.

[tronam]

Almost anything RS adds to the core program will be considered decades old catch-up at this point, which isn’t the greatest marketing position to be in. I get why they’d rather focus on new instruments. When looking back through my recent projects the last time I was really using Reason as a dedicated DAW was 2014-2016. It will take a lot for me to switch back now because of so many common missing features I’ve grown accustomed to, especially now that the RRP integrates so nicely into everything else. Here’s hoping future updates result in a foundation that’s easier and faster to improve upon. It would be really nice to see some more positivity from the most dedicated users and know they feel appreciated.

[guitfnky]

Almost anything RS adds to the core program will be considered decades old catch-up at this point, which isn’t the greatest marketing position to be in. I get why they’d rather focus on new instruments. When looking back through my recent projects the last time I was really using Reason as a dedicated DAW was 2014-2016. It will take a lot for me to switch back now because of so many common missing features I’ve grown accustomed to, especially now that the RRP integrates so nicely into everything else. Here’s hoping future updates result in a foundation that’s easier and faster to improve upon. It would be really nice to see some more positivity from the most dedicated users and know they feel appreciated.

totally agree. I just switched over to using Reason in Ableton, and I can't see myself coming back as a full-time Reason DAW user anytime soon--there's just too much that's missing, and now that I'm getting used to a much quicker workflow, Reason feels very clunky and haphazard to me. I hope they really bring something special in terms of core updates in 12, to make me have to think twice about that, but it would have to be a huge update.

on the plus side, I think even though they're playing catch-up, most users will probably be very forgiving, as long as RS shows a good-faith effort to really improve the core experience. I know I will.

[bxbrkrz]

Is Reason going nowhere because lots of people, some of them who never used Reason before, are using R+ inside their favorite DAW right now?

When I don't like an app anymore I nuke it from my system, and I delete any links related to it from my bookmarks. Then I move on. Not doing this would make me feel like a creepy person checking on an old girlfriend's facebook page at 3 AM. Every night.

Let it go

[Goriila Texas]

If I was a betting man I would put money on RS continuing to cater to the EDM crowed. From the outside looking in nobody on Mattias project team likes any other type of music besides EDM based on the lack of a modern sampler and lack of development with the Rex loop format. This is why diversity is so important, I have zero interest in many of the synths in Reason as a Hip Hop, Soul, R&B, Trap and Dub producer. I think I speak for 99% of producers who use Reason for the same genres as I make when I say DNA Labs is the best developer for the Re format and probably making the most money. Trap and Pop are the top genres right now rather if you like the music or not and use a lot of samples. Native Instruments is making a killing off those genres (just spent 99$ on the sale going on). RS doesn't seem to have a lot of resources it would seem that extensive research would be done before coding anything new. Who in the F@#! thought Algo would be a hit and was needed most above everything else??? At this point it looks like Mattias is just making instruments he likes while making music in LIVE and saying screw every other genre and musician!

Edit: I will agree that RRP should have priority because as DAW it's just too far behind to catch up. They should focus on tools that are easy to use like a new Rex/wave sampler, it makes no sense having to switch from the NNXT to Dr Rex when scrolling through loops or samples because every modern sampler plays both.

[ltbrunt00]

Working in I.T and in a field where big changes take a long time. To me since Reason Studios is a small company the big overhaul we all want will be the longest development cycle in their companies history. They only get one chance to get it right the first time. I suspect there are many more people like me who value Reason as an essential tool and will always use it as a DAW no matter what they do. I do think people should be used to using multiple DAWs in this day in age.

[MannequinRaces]

If I was a betting man I would put money on RS continuing to cater to the EDM crowed. From the outside looking in nobody on Mattias project team likes any other type of music besides EDM based on the lack of a modern sampler and lack of development with the Rex loop format. This is why diversity is so important, I have zero interest in many of the synths in Reason as a Hip Hop, Soul, R&B, Trap and Dub producer. I think I speak for 99% of producers who use Reason for the same genres as I make when I say DNA Labs is the best developer for the Re format and probably making the most money. Trap and Pop are the top genres right now rather if you like the music or not and use a lot of samples. Native Instruments is making a killing off those genres (just spent 99$ on the sale going on). RS doesn't seem to have a lot of resources it would seem that extensive research would be done before coding anything new. Who in the F@#! thought Algo would be a hit and was needed most above everything else??? At this point it looks like Mattias is just making instruments he likes while making music in LIVE and saying screw every other genre and musician!

Edit: I will agree that RRP should have priority because as DAW it's just too far behind to catch up. They should focus on tools that are easy to use like a new Rex/wave sampler, it makes no sense having to switch from the NNXT to Dr Rex when scrolling through loops or samples because every modern sampler plays both.

Lol, “DNA Labs is the best developer for the RE format.” Really? Please elaborate on this more!

[Goriila Texas]

They have bread and butter sounds for melodies, gritty brass and nice presets in the genres I make music for. I own two of their synths and will buy the latest one that came out last year. Simple to use nice real sounds. I like real instruments that are dirty, I don't make bleeps and blips type music or wobble sounds nor do I need super saw sound detuned.

If I was a betting man I would put money on RS continuing to cater to the EDM crowed. From the outside looking in nobody on Mattias project team likes any other type of music besides EDM based on the lack of a modern sampler and lack of development with the Rex loop format. This is why diversity is so important, I have zero interest in many of the synths in Reason as a Hip Hop, Soul, R&B, Trap and Dub producer. I think I speak for 99% of producers who use Reason for the same genres as I make when I say DNA Labs is the best developer for the Re format and probably making the most money. Trap and Pop are the top genres right now rather if you like the music or not and use a lot of samples. Native Instruments is making a killing off those genres (just spent 99$ on the sale going on). RS doesn't seem to have a lot of resources it would seem that extensive research would be done before coding anything new. Who in the F@#! thought Algo would be a hit and was needed most above everything else??? At this point it looks like Mattias is just making instruments he likes while making music in LIVE and saying screw every other genre and musician!

Edit: I will agree that RRP should have priority because as DAW it's just too far behind to catch up. They should focus on tools that are easy to use like a new Rex/wave sampler, it makes no sense having to switch from the NNXT to Dr Rex when scrolling through loops or samples because every modern sampler plays both.

Lol, “DNA Labs is the best developer for the RE format.” Really? Please elaborate on this more!

[MannequinRaces]

They have bread and butter sounds for melodies, gritty brass and nice presets in the genres I make music for. I own two of their synths and will buy the latest one that came out last year. Simple to use nice real sounds. I like real instruments that are dirty, I don't make bleeps and blips type music or wobble sounds nor do I need super saw sound detuned.

Lol, “DNA Labs is the best developer for the RE format.” Really? Please elaborate on this more!

Gotcha! Thanks. I guess they’ve always flown under my radar.

[tronam]

When I don't like an app anymore I nuke it from my system, and I delete any links related to it from my bookmarks. Then I move on. Not doing this would make me feel like a creepy person checking on an old girlfriend's facebook page at 3 AM. Every night.

Let it go

I still love Reason and continue to regularly upgrade. I just run it as a rack in other DAWs these days and there has been no downside to this for me. I actually use it far more often now, so when it comes to application engagement R11 has been a major Reason Studios win when it comes to users like me.