Where is Reason going ?

[Jagwah]

Props don't see other DAWs as their competition, they see products like Arcade as their competition. I am not imagining this. The paint by numbers musical devices and softwares that are not aimed at actual in the know musicians but at the ignorant wannabes that will ignorantly open their wallets lead by clever and expensive marketing.

I've been doing music (in some form or another) since I was about 6. I'm 37 now. I absolutely see the value in sound packs, loops, presets and tools to speed up the process or otherwise allow me to "stumble" across inspiration. Yeah maybe that makes it easier for people who don't really know what they're doing but tbh I'm way past caring if what I do is seen as hard. All I care about is that I enjoy making it, and ideally if other people enjoy listening to it. A discerning ear will still know the difference. And anyone who doesn't...probably isn't who I'm aiming at. Music is easy now. Old codgers like me can either get salty about it or just deal with it and do what makes *us* happy without expecting any fanfare for it.

Also ya know, I just don't have the free time I used to. My day job is all-consuming. I don't even have kids but if I did, I'd have even less time. Increasingly I find less joy in tinkering and re-designing the wheel (or the kick, or the bass) and more joy in just playing with my equipment and sounds more like toys. And it's not like Reason are taking things away (inbefore someone mentions the ONE thing they took away, L6 amps lol). So I can get deep when I want to.

You make some fair points. Probably only someone who does this stuff themselves would notice a difference between someone using loops and someone not, to a degree though. I imagine a whole album made by someone who has only used sample packs that have all the song parts would be somewhat repetitive and in no way would amount to any type of narrative / lyricism. I am definitely a purist when it comes to this stuff and I honestly feel some of it is misleading to consumers through the advertising and can probably be a waste of time if someone invests a lot of time in it thinking that's how it's usually done, or that is how to progress as a musician.

Then again it is hard to find that grey area where something is OK and something isn't. I really like synth patches now whereas I didn't for the longest time. I rarely use percussion loops but sometimes I do and this is where it comes down to 'each to their own.' Using a bass loop, music pack or midi pack is a cardinal sin to me, and while I am vocal about it I do get that some people want that, and as for that grey area - who can really say where the line should be drawn. It's certainly not for me to say, but I can have my opinions about it.

It definitely also depends on our intentions like you say. If you just want to enjoy the process and have something to play after and these tools do it for you then more power to you.

[guitfnky]

I just realized that all this technology, making it easier and easier to create what I’ll call “theoretically cohesive” music, is just doing what punk bands did in the late 70s/early 80s, and what grunge (sort of did) in the 90s: bringing music creation back to the masses. the difference being that you don’t even need to know how to hold a guitar or even own a keyboard anymore.

probably sounds like I’m an old fart yelling at the kids to keep off my damn lawn, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing. getting more people into creating music is a great thing.

my only complaint is that it’s like they’ve finally found a way to monetize the DIY punk ethos, and now everyone with laptop and a DAW is a producer. it’s great that there are more people doing it, but it makes me wonder about the quality and the craft. using chord banks and key quantization is useful, but NOTHING beats the joy of pure exploration you get when you’re just kludging along, figuring things out on your own. many of those early punk and grunge records are the embodiment of that, and it shows.

[QVprod]

Wow I'm really surprised that you don't take advantage of track folders it makes your project space incredibly organized. I also use maschine and created audio tracks for it's outputs so that's 16 channels. In order to see inputs, midi keyboard for 16 tracks you have to zoom out or those channels take up most of the screen. Putting drums in a track folder or group has been huge for me.

Agreed on the mixer. Went from 2 monitors to 1 (I surprisingly don’t miss the 2nd) but the Reason mixer in a single screen setup is a little weird to get used to. You can collapse sections of it though or click on a section in the little navigator on the right hand side to quickly get to a desired section. I often forget that option’s there myself.

Regarding direction, coming from the other side of the fence, I think the direction is the same as it’s been. Started with Reason 3. Never noticed a shift. Whether that’s for better or for worse is a different matter. I too once thought they might try to be competitive with other DAWs after 6.5. I gave up on that after 7. As is, it’s an incredible workstation instrument, like Machine - minus the hardware. (Sidenote: I just got into Machine and fell in love with it!)

I don’t think anyone’s negating it’s flaws though. I use multiple DAWs, so clearly I’m aware of them.. I’ll admit my bias though, as some features people want, I’ve tried in Studio One (track freeze, track folders) and found very little use for. But I also don’t generally have 50 tracks going in a song, where I suppose the desire for it makes sense.

I never have more than 6-8 drum sounds max in my tracks. I’ll often have only about 10 or so different sounds in a typical song, so there’s not much to manage. Only time I have relatively high track counts is if I’m mixing, particularly an R&B song with a ton of harmonies. Even then, I use Studio One’s mix scenes for having a more condensed view.

[Zerosity]

As you can probably tell from my screenshot, I'm on Linux so obviously Reason doesn't run there.

I did. Pop_OS! is great.

[antic604]

As you can probably tell from my screenshot, I'm on Linux so obviously Reason doesn't run there.

I did. Pop_OS! is great.

High five!

[Simontho]

It's really sad Reason stopped supporting ReWire with R11. It's a standard used by a lot of other DAWs besides Reason, and now no one else can use it in future DAW releases.

[gbball]

I've been doing music (in some form or another) since I was about 6. I'm 37 now. I absolutely see the value in sound packs, loops, presets and tools to speed up the process or otherwise allow me to "stumble" across inspiration. Yeah maybe that makes it easier for people who don't really know what they're doing but tbh I'm way past caring if what I do is seen as hard. All I care about is that I enjoy making it, and ideally if other people enjoy listening to it. A discerning ear will still know the difference. And anyone who doesn't...probably isn't who I'm aiming at. Music is easy now. Old codgers like me can either get salty about it or just deal with it and do what makes *us* happy without expecting any fanfare for it.

Also ya know, I just don't have the free time I used to. My day job is all-consuming. I don't even have kids but if I did, I'd have even less time. Increasingly I find less joy in tinkering and re-designing the wheel (or the kick, or the bass) and more joy in just playing with my equipment and sounds more like toys. And it's not like Reason are taking things away (inbefore someone mentions the ONE thing they took away, L6 amps lol). So I can get deep when I want to.

You make some fair points. Probably only someone who does this stuff themselves would notice a difference between someone using loops and someone not, to a degree though. I imagine a whole album made by someone who has only used sample packs that have all the song parts would be somewhat repetitive and in no way would amount to any type of narrative / lyricism. I am definitely a purist when it comes to this stuff and I honestly feel some of it is misleading to consumers through the advertising and can probably be a waste of time if someone invests a lot of time in it thinking that's how it's usually done, or that is how to progress as a musician.

Then again it is hard to find that grey area where something is OK and something isn't. I really like synth patches now whereas I didn't for the longest time. I rarely use percussion loops but sometimes I do and this is where it comes down to 'each to their own.' Using a bass loop, music pack or midi pack is a cardinal sin to me, and while I am vocal about it I do get that some people want that, and as for that grey area - who can really say where the line should be drawn. It's certainly not for me to say, but I can have my opinions about it.

It definitely also depends on our intentions like you say. If you just want to enjoy the process and have something to play after and these tools do it for you then more power to you.

As someone who isn't classically trained, who has long had a desire to make music. I'm a bit offended by your take on people like me. But really, I think it's a bit cynical. One of the things that Reason does; and one of the reasons they first caught my attention was the fact that they make very interesting, highly inspiring instruments. Like the figure app for iOS back in the day, which first put me onto Propellerhead. And Reason itself is really just a big instrument, where you can hook devices up for instant inspiration. I don't use loops and packs and I've spent the last few years learning about synthesis, music theory, and how to play the piano. If not for Reason, I don't think I would have made nearly the progress I have. I could be wrong, but I don't think Reason is the mainstream choice these days and the people that you're thinking of are probably choosing other DAWs that are really popular like Ableton and Logic and using Native Instruments plugins. It seems to me the Reason users are a bit of a different breed and have chosen this tool for specific reasons.

Any classically trained musician has both some advantages and some disadvantages because you know a lot, but you've also been trained to think a certain way and it's hard to let go of what you know and try something new, even if it were to make you more prolific.

I understand this because my main job is as an illustrator and concept artist and I learned how to do things before concept artists started using photos to collage together their ideas. So oftentimes, the photobashers can make things faster than me, that look way more finished and I can't for the life of me get into that way of working because it feels wrong. Not because it is wrong, but it just feels like it would cheapen the hard work I put in doing things the traditional way.

Anyways, what I like about Reason is the fact that I can work with it on my own terms and create interesting sounds and music that I like regardless of my current level of traditional skill. I do see however that the more I improve my traditional skills the more I'll be able to get out of the software. So as the guy who's been marketed to, I've come in with no allusions. But I'm pleasantly surprised to see that I keep getting better and that Reason has been the catalyst for that growth. Time and money well spent.

[moneykube]

It's really sad Reason stopped supporting ReWire with R11. It's a standard used by a lot of other DAWs besides Reason, and now no one else can use it in future DAW releases.

agreed

[exxx]

The future I think of is the sale of companies.

Subscription service is likely to raise short-term profits and sell companies

[antic604]

Subscription service is likely to raise short-term profits and sell companies

That's not how "selling of company" works

[Billy+]

But it is how you inflate their value

[kuhliloach]

In a recent Ableton Live 10 collaboration I chose to use some of my own plug-ins via the r11 lite rack within Ableton, using Kuassa, Softube, and McDSP. I knew these tracks would need to be frozen for collaboration since the other person didn't have the same plug-ins, but I moved forward anyways. The results are so good the other person inquired about buying the same plug-ins! So I prepared a quote for them. Could not find the Lite 11 I bought. Could not find Softube listed as a brand on the RS site. The quote wasn't only ridiculously expensive--I couldn't even find everything. We decided to mix it again using only plug-ins we both have and going forward with this collaboration we will be avoiding the use of anything RS related within the projects. Just wanted to shed some light on Where Reason is Going in this particular team.

[joeyluck]

In a recent Ableton Live 10 collaboration I chose to use some of my own plug-ins via the r11 lite rack within Ableton, using Kuassa, Softube, and McDSP. I knew these tracks would need to be frozen for collaboration since the other person didn't have the same plug-ins, but I moved forward anyways. The results are so good the other person inquired about buying the same plug-ins! So I prepared a quote for them. Could not find the Lite 11 I bought. Could not find Softube listed as a brand on the RS site. The quote wasn't only ridiculously expensive--I couldn't even find everything. We decided to mix it again using only plug-ins we both have and going forward with this collaboration we will be avoiding the use of anything RS related within the projects. Just wanted to shed some light on Where Reason is Going in this particular team.

Lite has never been something regularly available for purchase. It was only included through promotions through other companies (such as Plugin Boutique, Waves, Focusrite).

Nothing has changed with the shop.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=kuassa
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=softube
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=mcdsp

Aside from that, did you not try using the built-in feature in Reason to point you to the RE shop pages?

- highlight a device in the rack
- right-click and choose "go to product page" OR go to the Help menu and choose "go to product page"

[bxbrkrz]

"The results are so good the other person inquired about buying the same plug-ins! So I prepared a quote for them...."

Sounds like it was at first a great win for music and Reason, and a loss for conformity

[kuhliloach]

In a recent Ableton Live 10 collaboration I chose to use some of my own plug-ins via the r11 lite rack within Ableton, using Kuassa, Softube, and McDSP. I knew these tracks would need to be frozen for collaboration since the other person didn't have the same plug-ins, but I moved forward anyways. The results are so good the other person inquired about buying the same plug-ins! So I prepared a quote for them. Could not find the Lite 11 I bought. Could not find Softube listed as a brand on the RS site. The quote wasn't only ridiculously expensive--I couldn't even find everything. We decided to mix it again using only plug-ins we both have and going forward with this collaboration we will be avoiding the use of anything RS related within the projects. Just wanted to shed some light on Where Reason is Going in this particular team.

Lite has never been something regularly available for purchase. It was only included through promotions through other companies (such as Plugin Boutique, Waves, Focusrite).

Nothing has changed with the shop.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=kuassa
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=softube
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=mcdsp

Aside from that, did you not try using the built-in feature in Reason to point you to the RE shop pages?

- highlight a device in the rack
- right-click and choose "go to product page" OR go to the Help menu and choose "go to product page"

Thanks Joey. I'm not sure what I did wrong but I click Brands and did not see Softube, but now I see it is possible to find with some digging. Ultimately the quote was just too cost prohibitive and I couldn't recommend it. Replacing the instances of the rack plug-in will give us a chance to get a better mix and bring some consistency to the collab.

[joeyluck]

Lite has never been something regularly available for purchase. It was only included through promotions through other companies (such as Plugin Boutique, Waves, Focusrite).

Nothing has changed with the shop.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=kuassa
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=softube
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/browse/?q=mcdsp

Aside from that, did you not try using the built-in feature in Reason to point you to the RE shop pages?

- highlight a device in the rack
- right-click and choose "go to product page" OR go to the Help menu and choose "go to product page"

Thanks Joey. I'm not sure what I did wrong but I click Brands and did not see Softube, but now I see it is possible to find with some digging. Ultimately the quote was just too cost prohibitive and I couldn't recommend it. Replacing the instances of the rack plug-in will give us a chance to get a better mix and bring some consistency to the collab.

Gotcha. Well how long is the collab for? Is it ongoing? Something to consider and something I've used is the RE subscriptions. The base of $9/month gets you up to $400 worth of REs, which can definitely be worth it if your collaborator just wants to access the plugins you use for a period of time.

[bxbrkrz]

Winning!

[kuhliloach]

I'm just going to avoid any RS stuff in collabs, or bake my effects into the audio and not tell anyone. I do not "subscribe" to software licences of any kind and I am adopting a less is more attitude regarding music production, meaning I am comfortable with just about any effects on any platform and not too concerned with branding. And now that Vital and Live 11 is out everyone can just use stock.

[chaosroyale]

I know it's not quite the same as collaborating with an identical setup, but if your friend just loved the sound of the plugins and wanted to use McDSP and Kuassa plugins in Live, then it would be much more cheap and efficient to simply use the VSTs directly in Live.

I'm just going to avoid any RS stuff in collabs, or bake my effects into the audio and not tell anyone. I do not "subscribe" to software licences of any kind and I am adopting a less is more attitude regarding music production, meaning I am comfortable with just about any effects on any platform and not too concerned with branding. And now that Vital and Live 11 is out everyone can just use stock.

[Carpainter]

I'm just going to avoid any RS stuff in collabs, or bake my effects into the audio and not tell anyone. I do not "subscribe" to software licences of any kind and I am adopting a less is more attitude regarding music production, meaning I am comfortable with just about any effects on any platform and not too concerned with branding. And now that Vital and Live 11 is out everyone can just use stock.

I've moved on to sound experiments in VCV Rack. If I still bothered to make tracks, I'd probably just use LMMS or Ardour and any number of high-quality free instruments and effects that are available these days.

I think we're moving into an age where free/open source development is not only catching up with commercial software development, but surpassing it in some cases (VCV Rack, Vital).