Accidentally overwritten previous session

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Aerny
Posts: 3
Joined: 02 Mar 2021

Post 02 Mar 2021

Dear fellow Reasoners,

Today I started a new song from a series of songs I am making.
Normally I use the previous song as a template for the next song so all stays in a consistent balance.
So I open up the previous song, empty all it's tracks and SAVING it under a new name.
But this time I didn't save it... I just started writing away and pressed save accidentally :? ... with the result of overwriting my previous session!

So I tried to look for some cache files here and there hoping to save the older session because I worked on that for 3 days (!).
And I knew that the scratch disk thing already is an issue and autosave isn't still implemented (I am using Reason 11 in 2021)

Do you have any ideas for me on how to re-open that previous song by using the cache files - or another alternative way? Is such thing even possible?

Thank you so much in advanced,

A

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orthodox
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Post 02 Mar 2021

No way, unfortunately.

Cache files are not backups, they mostly hold audio data to save time for recalculations.

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Billy+
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Yeah that one is gone and if there was an auto save that would have produced the same problem.

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antic604
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Aerny wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Normally I use the previous song as a template for the next song so all stays in a consistent balance.
Next time use a template as a template :)

Also, why wouldn't you save your songs incrementally with a number / date / time stamp? All my projects (or any files - Word, Excel, etc. too) are "YYYYMMDD(HHMM)_title", so that I can easily go back to previous version when needed. It's not an excuse that your software doesn't have autosave or backups (even though I obviously agree it should).
Music tech enthusiast.
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My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Billy+
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Post 02 Mar 2021

antic604 wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Aerny wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Normally I use the previous song as a template for the next song so all stays in a consistent balance.
Next time use a template as a template :)

Also, why wouldn't you save your songs incrementally with a number / date / time stamp? All my projects (or any files - Word, Excel, etc. too) are "YYYYMMDD(HHMM)_title", so that I can easily go back to previous version when needed. It's not an excuse that your software doesn't have autosave or backups (even though I obviously agree it should).
I think the OP without thinking just quick key save the project....

boesOne
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Joined: 09 Nov 2018

Post 02 Mar 2021

I save everything in a one drive folder and let onedrive do the version control. So when i loose myself in mucking around and decide it's all crap i can restore the previous version.

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selig
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Yeah that one is gone and if there was an auto save that would have produced the same problem.
Depends - there are only a few apps that actually overwrite with autosave, but most autosave features are actually leaving a bread crumb trail of versions along the way. That's how it always worked in Pro Tools for example, and you can even determine how often to save and how many versions to keep. I'm not aware of any music app that overwrites your files, but maybe I've missed one.
With Reason this feature wouldn't be practical as the app currently exists, which is why (since Reason 6) I've been an advocate for adding internal "versions" in Reason. Not only would it allow saving incremental versions of your work automatically, it would also allow you to save one version while exploring options on another, or to save various mix version of your final projects (Main mix, Instrumental mix, Vocal up/down mix, etc.). But I digress… ;(
Selig Audio, LLC

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Billy+
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Post 02 Mar 2021

selig wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Billy+ wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Yeah that one is gone and if there was an auto save that would have produced the same problem.
Depends - there are only a few apps that actually overwrite with autosave, but most autosave features are actually leaving a bread crumb trail of versions along the way. That's how it always worked in Pro Tools for example, and you can even determine how often to save and how many versions to keep. I'm not aware of any music app that overwrites your files, but maybe I've missed one.
With Reason this feature wouldn't be practical as the app currently exists, which is why (since Reason 6) I've been an advocate for adding internal "versions" in Reason. Not only would it allow saving incremental versions of your work automatically, it would also allow you to save one version while exploring options on another, or to save various mix version of your final projects (Main mix, Instrumental mix, Vocal up/down mix, etc.). But I digress… ;(
Well at the moment I only ever use Reason for music production so really couldn't comment on other DAW's, however versioning does seem to have its advantages and disadvantages depending on how it implemented.

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joeyluck
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Aside from avoiding such issues, I need versioning so I can save some hard disk space.

There should be an option to save a project as a package or as a folder. Not every project needs to resave all of the audio. The versioning feature in Logic I think is called "alternatives"? Reason desperately needs these options. It's at the top of my list with MPE support. Version saving doesn't sound exciting, but it is the center of all things.

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Billy+
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Post 02 Mar 2021

I still think that it's such a difficult thing to implement that is far to easy to get it wrong and forever be fixing / updating it.

What kinda versioning are we talking here?

Independent version of every single track patch take etc...

Automatically or some kind of commit function like a git repo

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joeyluck
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
02 Mar 2021
I still think that it's such a difficult thing to implement that is far to easy to get it wrong and forever be fixing / updating it.

What kinda versioning are we talking here?

Independent version of every single track patch take etc...

Automatically or some kind of commit function like a git repo
In terms of helping automatically solve the problem presented in this thread, I'm not sure...

I just want something where I can save versions manually myself without duplicating space. That's it.

And perhaps a simple solution for the OP would be an advanced option that prompts with each save, "save as new version or overwrite existing?"

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Billy+
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Post 02 Mar 2021

joeyluck wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Billy+ wrote:
02 Mar 2021
I still think that it's such a difficult thing to implement that is far to easy to get it wrong and forever be fixing / updating it.

What kinda versioning are we talking here?

Independent version of every single track patch take etc...

Automatically or some kind of commit function like a git repo
In terms of helping automatically solve the problem presented in this thread, I'm not sure...

I just want something where I can save versions manually myself without duplicating space. That's it.

And perhaps a simple solution for the OP would be an advanced option that prompts with each save, "save as new version or overwrite existing?"
At present I use dates numbers and stages ( March-02-2021-01-02 | March-02-2021-01-02-N | -M)
N=mixed with Neutron
M=Mastered, but that will be as a separate ozone project
But my files are always Month-Day-Year-Track-Revision-Stage.

Saved inside a track title folder, if they get that far...

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joeyluck
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
02 Mar 2021
joeyluck wrote:
02 Mar 2021


In terms of helping automatically solve the problem presented in this thread, I'm not sure...

I just want something where I can save versions manually myself without duplicating space. That's it.

And perhaps a simple solution for the OP would be an advanced option that prompts with each save, "save as new version or overwrite existing?"
At present I use dates numbers and stages ( March-02-2021-01-02 | March-02-2021-01-N | -M)
N=mixed with Neutron
M=Mastered, but that will be as a separate ozone project
But my files are always Month-Day-Year-Track-Revision-Stage.
I start with date too.

That's not the problem. You still have to name your projects. The problem is not having proper version handling and each project taking up duplicate amount of space. So your "mixed with Neutron" project, even if not adding any addition audio, takes up the same space as your version before being mixed with Neutron. You can have a 20GB Reason project, adjust the master fader, save a new version and now you have two 20GB projects.

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Billy+
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Post 02 Mar 2021

This guy eats disk space :thumbup:

But yeah it would be nice to have a solution, rather than a stack of 2TB USB drives ;)

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joeyluck
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
02 Mar 2021
This guy eats disk space :thumbup:

But yeah it would be nice to have a solution, rather than a stack of 2TB USB drives ;)
Lol I mix large musicals with full bands and casts of 25+
And we're talking tons of versions saved.

I go between using Logic and Reason. I'm just so used to Reason's sequencer and pitch edit, I work faster in Reason.

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selig
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Post 02 Mar 2021

Billy+ wrote:
02 Mar 2021
I still think that it's such a difficult thing to implement that is far to easy to get it wrong and forever be fixing / updating it.

What kinda versioning are we talking here?

Independent version of every single track patch take etc...

Automatically or some kind of commit function like a git repo
At the basic level, just some way to save the current song file internally so you don't also have to save all the audio over again each time you save. I called it "versions" 10 years ago back on the old PUF forum and wrote a wall of text laying out exactly what it would do. This was a few years before Logic Pro added "Project Alternatives", which is basically what I outlined in my original post, and a few years before I learned what git hub etc. did. I called it versions because that's what I learned to call them back in the 1980s when I started as an audio engineer in Nashville (short for "mix versions").
The idea is to get around the problem that Reason saves its audio files imbedded in the song file. You can easily export them when needed, so I don't see it as a huge limitation, and you need to do similar things in Pro Tools etc. (or consolidate the file first) because otherwise you have a separate audio file for each time you record/punch in with no way of knowing how they should be arranged on the time line.
I also suggested you should be able to export the song data on its own for when you are collaborating online, so you don't have to send the audio data each time you make a mix change. Being able to export/import song data would also be helpful when mixing a multi-song project, since you can basically save the "mixer/rack" parts and import them into a new song file containing new audio files for the next song. This also allows you to import your vocal chain or drum bus settings from one song into another, but I digress…


As for how it would address the OPs problem, you could also set it to automatically save a "version" every x-minutes (every 5-10 minutes being common, but it should be user definable), and also set a total number of versions to save this way (typically 10-20 or so).

TL/DR: it's a way to save multiple mixes without re-saving the audio files each time, a feature I really want.
Selig Audio, LLC

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Billy+
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Post 02 Mar 2021

joeyluck wrote:
02 Mar 2021
Billy+ wrote:
02 Mar 2021
This guy eats disk space :thumbup:

But yeah it would be nice to have a solution, rather than a stack of 2TB USB drives ;)
Lol I mix large musicals with full bands and casts of 25+
And we're talking tons of versions saved.

I go between using Logic and Reason. I'm just so used to Reason's sequencer and pitch edit, I work faster in Reason.
Yeah I don't know if I could handle that much responsibility, so hats off to you :clap:

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guitfnky
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Post 02 Mar 2021

one of the other downsides to having the sound files stored in the project file is that it means any auto backups for large projects can take a looooooong time to upload. I have my important projects synced to Google Drive, and I regularly have to leave my computer turned on for a couple of hours so it can upload—even if all I did was turn a single knob and save. silly that it has to re-upload every bit of audio every single time.
I write good music for good people

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Aerny
Posts: 3
Joined: 02 Mar 2021

Post 06 Aug 2022

Guys I am so sorry but I've seen all your replies just now! I didn't got any notifications about all your answers.
I never was able to solve the initial problem and I came here to post about yet another HUGE problem, namely that Reason keeps on hanging while loading a session I almost finished yesterday. Really frustrating, but a different topic. [Edit. I've been able to open the file by pluging out my Vienna Symphonic Library dongle.]

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Jolla
Posts: 43
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post Yesterday

next time, if you accidentally saved a project, do this:

1. undo all actions with "ctrl z, before you start making changes
2. save and then resume all changes with "ctrl y" and "save as" new filename.

It worked for me.
Last edited by Jolla on 11 Aug 2022, edited 2 times in total.

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Rising Night Wave
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Post Yesterday

huh Aerny, i feel sorry for you.
next time just open windows explorer and make a physical copy of a file. rename it. and start doing in reason.

and also do a proper copy/backup of your files.
every day.
Rising Night Wave & Extus at SoundCloud
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RobC
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Joined: 10 Mar 2018

Post Yesterday

Sometimes, data recovery programs can help. Although the more you use your Drive/Card, the more likely something gets written to the place of the overwritten/deleted file.

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