Reason 11 sample editor bug?

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anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

I think there is another bug with Reason 11.
Maybe someone can confirm.

Somehow the sample editor is now linked wierdly to the browser audio preview.

Load a sample into NN-19 or NN-XT and start Reasons sample editor, play the sample and when you now switch loop on and play with the loop points or switch on crossfade, than suddenly the browser audio preview starts to play and loop the audio forever. You can't stop it until you switch the loop off in the sample editor or close the sample editor and stop the audio preview in the browser manually but as soon as you switch loop on again or anytime you open the sample editor again and edit your sample further, the audio preview in the browser starts to play again.

This is super annoying when working with looped samples, i never had that with Reason 10.

Reason 11 is by far the buggiest Reason version ever, hope with Reason 12 everything gets fixed.

DecafDreams
Posts: 159
Joined: 07 Oct 2020

Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
I think there is another bug with Reason 11.
Maybe someone can confirm.

Somehow the sample editor is now linked wierdly to the browser audio preview.

Load a sample into NN-19 or NN-XT and start Reasons sample editor, play the sample and when you now switch loop on and play with the loop points or switch on crossfade, than suddenly the browser audio preview starts to play and loop the audio forever. You can't stop it until you switch the loop off in the sample editor or close the sample editor and stop the audio preview in the browser manually but as soon as you switch loop on again or anytime you open the sample editor again and edit your sample further, the audio preview in the browser starts to play again.

This is super annoying when working with looped samples, i never had that with Reason 10.

Reason 11 is by far the buggiest Reason version ever, hope with Reason 12 everything gets fixed.
Oh dear, this doesn't sound good. I'm way from my DAW at the moment, so will try and test and see if I can reproduce this issue later. I hope they fix all these bugs before Reason 12 is released; paying customers shouldn't have to pay out again to fix things that should never have been broken in the first place!

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Enlightenspeed
RE Developer
Posts: 639
Joined: 03 Jan 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
I think there is another bug with Reason 11.
Maybe someone can confirm.

Somehow the sample editor is now linked wierdly to the browser audio preview.

Load a sample into NN-19 or NN-XT and start Reasons sample editor, play the sample and when you now switch loop on and play with the loop points or switch on crossfade, than suddenly the browser audio preview starts to play and loop the audio forever. You can't stop it until you switch the loop off in the sample editor or close the sample editor and stop the audio preview in the browser manually but as soon as you switch loop on again or anytime you open the sample editor again and edit your sample further, the audio preview in the browser starts to play again.

This is super annoying when working with looped samples, i never had that with Reason 10.

Reason 11 is by far the buggiest Reason version ever, hope with Reason 12 everything gets fixed.
Checked this in both Recon and R+ and I can't reproduce it at all.

Firstly, have you reproduced this since, and what OS is it?

If no-one else can reproduce then you may wish to reinstall.

anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Checked this in both Recon and R+ and I can't reproduce it at all.
its easy to reproduce the issue.
please try this.

1. open Reason with a empty song
2. load a NN-19 in the rack
3. load a sample from Reasons browser into the NN-19
4. click on edit sample, the sample editor should open
5. click on play in the sample editor
6. now switch on the loop button
7. set the loop points wherever you want in the sample
8. and now switch on crossfade

now suddenly the browser audio preview starts to play the sample while the playback in the sample editor stops

you can press play in the sample editor again and it plays the sample over the browser audio playback which is still playing the sample and loop it forever.

that should not happen and it never happend with any Reason version before.

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Enlightenspeed
RE Developer
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Joined: 03 Jan 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Checked this in both Recon and R+ and I can't reproduce it at all.
its easy to reproduce the issue.
please try this.

1. open Reason with a empty song
2. load a NN-19 in the rack
3. load a sample from Reasons browser into the NN-19
4. click on edit sample, the sample editor should open
5. click on play in the sample editor
6. now switch on the loop button
7. set the loop points wherever you want in the sample
8. and now switch on crossfade

now suddenly the browser audio preview starts to play the sample while the playback in the sample editor stops

you can press play in the sample editor again and it plays the sample over the browser audio playback which is still playing the sample and loop it forever.

that should not happen and it never happend with any Reason version before.
Ok,

managed to find something, sorry, I missed the instruction to crossfade earlier, it needs to do this to be reproducible - if you change the focus of the browser itself so it's looking at a different sample it doesn't stick on that sample, however, so it's input related rather than browser related.

The actual problem that is occuring is that the "Play" button is sticking in the Sample Editor, and you can fix this easily by toggling the loop state in the editor. Importantly, this won't affect using the edited samples in whichever sampler. Reporting to RS as a genuine bug - nice find by the way, good work :D

Cheers,
Brian

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Enlightenspeed
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Post 16 Feb 2021

Logged with RS,

Hopefully will be resolved reasonably soon.

Cheers,
Brian

anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
managed to find something, sorry, I missed the instruction to crossfade earlier, it needs to do this to be reproducible - if you change the focus of the browser itself so it's looking at a different sample it doesn't stick on that sample
Crossfade is not necessarily needed to reproduce it, it's just the easiest way to show the bug. It will sooner or later happen even without using crossfade as long as you use the loop function. Changing browser focus don't change that behaviour.
Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
you can fix this easily by toggling the loop state in the editor.
You can't fix this easily.
Yes you can stop the playback if you toggle the loop button but that is not a fix, it's not even a workaround, because it will happen again as soon as your loop button is on again and you working further on the sample.
Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
nice find by the way, good work
It was not really hard to find but of course you only notice it when you work with samples in Reason, especially if you are creating samples and or NN-19/NN-XT patches.


Sometimes i wonder if the guys at RS are still working with their own software on a pro level or if they from time to time and just for fun throw the rack plugin in Ableton and make some funny fart noises with it.

RS please get yourself back on track.

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Enlightenspeed
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Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Crossfade is not necessarily needed to reproduce it, it's just the easiest way to show the bug. It will sooner or later happen even without using crossfade as long as you use the loop function. Changing browser focus don't change that behaviour.

You can't fix this easily.
Yes you can stop the playback if you toggle the loop button but that is not a fix, it's not even a workaround, because it will happen again as soon as your loop button is on again and you working further on the sample.
Have to agree to disagree, I can only get it to happen with crossfade on, and it clears itself for me when you toggle the loop on and off.

anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Have to agree to disagree, I can only get it to happen with crossfade on, and it clears itself for me when you toggle the loop on and off.
Brian have you read what i wrote?
Work a bit longer and deeper with samples and not testing it only for 5 minutes and you will see that it happens even without crossfade. I do it the whole day and you can trust me on this.
Yes the toggle button clears it for a moment but that's not a permanent fix. You know that.

DecafDreams
Posts: 159
Joined: 07 Oct 2020

Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Have to agree to disagree, I can only get it to happen with crossfade on, and it clears itself for me when you toggle the loop on and off.
Brian have you read what i wrote?
Work a bit longer and deeper with samples and not testing it only for 5 minutes and you will see that it happens even without crossfade. I do it the whole day and you can trust me on this.
Yes the toggle button clears it for a moment but that's not a permanent fix. You know that.
It's the crossfade button that has the bug I think.
Last edited by DecafDreams on 16 Feb 2021, edited 1 time in total.

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ProfessaKaos
Posts: 368
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Checked this in both Recon and R+ and I can't reproduce it at all.
its easy to reproduce the issue.
please try this.

1. open Reason with a empty song
2. load a NN-19 in the rack
3. load a sample from Reasons browser into the NN-19
4. click on edit sample, the sample editor should open
5. click on play in the sample editor
6. now switch on the loop button
7. set the loop points wherever you want in the sample
8. and now switch on crossfade

now suddenly the browser audio preview starts to play the sample while the playback in the sample editor stops

you can press play in the sample editor again and it plays the sample over the browser audio playback which is still playing the sample and loop it forever.

that should not happen and it never happend with any Reason version before.
Yeah it does it here also.
Reason 11.3 Suite PC- Windows 10, Intel 6800k, x99A-II, 32GB RAM, M.2. Samsung 970EVO, GTX1060.

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anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

DecafDreams wrote:
16 Feb 2021
I can't reproduce this on macOS. Once the Sample Editor window is open on Mac, you can't click into the main app window at all. This includes the main Browser, thus I can't recreate getting any sound to preview in the Browser whilst the Sample Editor is open and a sound is looping or crossfading. Once I close the Sample Editor, the Browser is always previewing sounds as normal for me, I can't get it to do any weird looping or anything strange.

As such, I think this must be a Windows-only bug, unless I'm misunderstanding your steps to reproduce!
Not sure but maybe you misunderstood indeed.
Of course you can't click into the main app window if the sample editor is open, that is normal behaviour and not the problem here.

Follow the steps i wrote above and read the description of the bug.

It's really interesting if this is just a bug with Reason on Windows systems.
I'm on latest Win 10 and latest Reason version.

DecafDreams
Posts: 159
Joined: 07 Oct 2020

Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Enlightenspeed wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Checked this in both Recon and R+ and I can't reproduce it at all.
its easy to reproduce the issue.
please try this.

1. open Reason with a empty song
2. load a NN-19 in the rack
3. load a sample from Reasons browser into the NN-19
4. click on edit sample, the sample editor should open
5. click on play in the sample editor
6. now switch on the loop button
7. set the loop points wherever you want in the sample
8. and now switch on crossfade

now suddenly the browser audio preview starts to play the sample while the playback in the sample editor stops

you can press play in the sample editor again and it plays the sample over the browser audio playback which is still playing the sample and loop it forever.

that should not happen and it never happend with any Reason version before.
I've tried this properly and you're right, the issue does exist and happens on both Mac and Windows! The issue is 100% with the crossfade checkbox. If that is interacted with (either ticking it or unticking it if it was already ticked) WHILST the sample is playing in a loop, then the Sample Editor loses control.

If you stop playback first, you can tick and untick the box no problem without reproducing the bug.

To fix the issue once the sample editor has got into a bugged state, just swap the sample loop mode to normal, then back to looped and it resets the sound from playing and retains any settings you had for the sample.

As such, this isn't a show stopping bug like the ReDrum sample delete one or the RAM memory leak one, but it's sloppy still nonetheless.

They must have done some sort of major refactor or something when they did R11 and it's introduced a bunch of regressive bugs in the process. Sounds like they need some proper unit tests or something in their build pipeline to prevent these things getting out the door.

anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

Again...

Crossfade is not necessarily needed to reproduce it, it's just the easiest way to show the bug. Because with the crossfade button you get this bug immediately but it will sooner or later happen even without using crossfade as long as you use the loop function.

If you guys worked with the Sample Editor for more than a few minutes, you would see this. I do this the whole day chopping up samples, loop them, create patches and so on and it happens even without the crossfade button just by searching for perfect loop points etc.

And again...

Yes you can stop the playback if you toggle the loop button but guys please don't call it a fix. It's not even a workaround, because it will happen again as soon as your loop button is on again and you working further on the sample.

It is a show stopping bug, just maybe not for you.


I'm silent now.

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Enlightenspeed
RE Developer
Posts: 639
Joined: 03 Jan 2019

Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Again...

Crossfade is not necessarily needed to reproduce it, it's just the easiest way to show the bug. Because with the crossfade button you get this bug immediately but it will sooner or later happen even without using crossfade as long as you use the loop function.

If you guys worked with the Sample Editor for more than a few minutes, you would see this. I do this the whole day chopping up samples, loop them, create patches and so on and it happens even without the crossfade button just by searching for perfect loop points etc.
Yeah, the crossfade is part of the trigger for it but it's not the problem. The issue is a bit lower down, and I reported it to RS as such, don't worry about it :D

DecafDreams
Posts: 159
Joined: 07 Oct 2020

Post 16 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Again...

Crossfade is not necessarily needed to reproduce it, it's just the easiest way to show the bug. Because with the crossfade button you get this bug immediately but it will sooner or later happen even without using crossfade as long as you use the loop function.

If you guys worked with the Sample Editor for more than a few minutes, you would see this. I do this the whole day chopping up samples, loop them, create patches and so on and it happens even without the crossfade button just by searching for perfect loop points etc.

And again...

Yes you can stop the playback if you toggle the loop button but guys please don't call it a fix. It's not even a workaround, because it will happen again as soon as your loop button is on again and you working further on the sample.

It is a show stopping bug, just maybe not for you.


I'm silent now.
Fair points. The only thing I disagree with you on is that this should wait 'til Reason 12 to be fixed! Bugs like this need fixing for free for existing license holders of Reason 11.

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jam-s
Posts: 1243
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Location: Aachen, Germany

Post 16 Feb 2021

DecafDreams wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Fair points. The only thing I disagree with you on is that this should wait 'til Reason 12 to be fixed! Bugs like this need fixing for free for existing license holders of Reason 11.
YES, bugfixes and especially fixing regressions has to be done in all the affected versions (as well). Otherwise quite some jurisdictions might get you into trouble if someone sues you over this.
If you're in Aachen, come and visit us at the Voidspace. ... Pool's closed due to corona.

DecafDreams
Posts: 159
Joined: 07 Oct 2020

Post 17 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
16 Feb 2021
Again...

Crossfade is not necessarily needed to reproduce it, it's just the easiest way to show the bug. Because with the crossfade button you get this bug immediately but it will sooner or later happen even without using crossfade as long as you use the loop function.

If you guys worked with the Sample Editor for more than a few minutes, you would see this. I do this the whole day chopping up samples, loop them, create patches and so on and it happens even without the crossfade button just by searching for perfect loop points etc.

And again...

Yes you can stop the playback if you toggle the loop button but guys please don't call it a fix. It's not even a workaround, because it will happen again as soon as your loop button is on again and you working further on the sample.

It is a show stopping bug, just maybe not for you.


I'm silent now.
I played around with this for a bit last night and the only the other way I could trigger the bug reliably was clicking the reverse button whilst playback was looping.

I tried moving the loop points around for a while whilst playback was happening and couldn't reproduce it there.

anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 17 Feb 2021

a short update.

today the RS support was answering to my bug report, unfortunately the communication is to be treated as confidential and as much as i would like to post this communication here and on other related forums so anybody can read this bs, i can't and will not post it.

i'm done with them, it's just ridiculous.


good bye and good luck to all of you.

DecafDreams
Posts: 159
Joined: 07 Oct 2020

Post 18 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
17 Feb 2021
a short update.

today the RS support was answering to my bug report, unfortunately the communication is to be treated as confidential and as much as i would like to post this communication here and on other related forums so anybody can read this bs, i can't and will not post it.

i'm done with them, it's just ridiculous.


good bye and good luck to all of you.
Oh dear. Wishing you all the best. My advice would be go back to Reason 10, it should still work on your computer and it doesn't have these bugs!

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buddard
RE Developer
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Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stockholm

Post 18 Feb 2021

anDre wrote:
17 Feb 2021
a short update.

today the RS support was answering to my bug report, unfortunately the communication is to be treated as confidential and as much as i would like to post this communication here and on other related forums so anybody can read this bs, i can't and will not post it.

i'm done with them, it's just ridiculous.


good bye and good luck to all of you.
I understand your frustration!

Just a side note:
Confidentiality disclaimers in email footers are not legally binding in any way. You would need to sign a non-disclosure agreement with them beforehand for them to have a reasonable case against you.
My guess is that it's just a standard boiler plate text that is added to their emails, like many other companies do.

anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 18 Feb 2021

I was really upset and disappointed by RS yesterday and still be.
If it were possible i literally would have thrown my license out the window yesterday.

I'm a looong time Reason user, since Reason 2, and i worked on lots of refills for a few companys back in the days where refills where hype and i had a company myself where we created refills and other sample packs, we even where part of a german Reason forum back then to support Propellerhead Software and get more people to Reason. I know how the sample editor worked in all Reason versions prior Reason 11 and damn they should not treat me like an idiot and telling me that it "worked as expected".

I never understood why the company changed it's name but now I know, this really isn't Propellerhead Software anymore.

Maybe i overreacted but it's because i see where this is going and i don't like what i see.

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Billy+
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Post 18 Feb 2021

So is this a reproducible bug or working "as expected".
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anDre
Posts: 30
Joined: 17 Apr 2019

Post 18 Feb 2021

no in Reason 10 9 8 7 6 5 it was wrong...

...of course it's a bug and yes it's reproducible :lol:

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Billy+
Posts: 1561
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 18 Feb 2021

So has it been confirmed as a bug by ReasonStudios
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