Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[soroc sosta]

reason_plus_forgot.jpg

LMAO! Saw what you did there!

I think this hits the nail on the head.
My take on all of the bitterness is that
Its not so much what they have presented
as much as it is all of the request that appear to be overlooked.
I dont think there would be as much anger if this
were preceded by answered feature request.
Just my 2 Pesos.

[oolaa]

Far too many people jumped on panic and hysteria bandwagon after they saw "Reason+ = subscription" without reading further about it or waiting for stream to finish and then discuss what we know and what are the facts.

Shouting about doomsday before even confirming any information makes one look stupid in the end.

What a bunch of entitled people in the stream last night. It sucks. It just sucks.

You could say, the YouTube chat had "no filter".... too soon?

[Social Exodus]

This thread is far too long to read, but I do have a question at this point; I own Reason 11 Suite plus everything offered in the subscription except Friktion and weekly sound updates. If I were to experiment with Reason+ for a bit and abandon it - is my Reason Suite still going to remain the same and can I upgrade to R12 eventually?

The answer is probably obvious, but in a world that's filled with shell games I guess I have to ask anyway.

[esselfortium]

This thread is far too long to read, but I do have a question at this point; I own Reason 11 Suite plus everything offered in the subscription except Friktion and weekly sound updates. If I were to experiment with Reason+ for a bit and abandon it - is my Reason Suite still going to remain the same and can I upgrade to R12 eventually?

The answer is probably obvious, but in a world that's filled with shell games I guess I have to ask anyway.

Yes. If you bought Reason 11 Suite, you own Reason 11 and all of the REs that came with it, regardless of what upgrade path you take (if any).

[vertibration]

They really need to drop Reason 12, and not wait till the end of the year. This is just messy. Maybe it would be wise to get it prepped for April or May.

[Social Exodus]

This thread is far too long to read, but I do have a question at this point; I own Reason 11 Suite plus everything offered in the subscription except Friktion and weekly sound updates. If I were to experiment with Reason+ for a bit and abandon it - is my Reason Suite still going to remain the same and can I upgrade to R12 eventually?

The answer is probably obvious, but in a world that's filled with shell games I guess I have to ask anyway.

Yes. If you bought Reason 11 Suite, you own Reason 11 and all of the REs that came with it, regardless of what upgrade path you take (if any).

Thanks, much appreciated.

This thread can now return to the craziness LOL

[bxbrkrz]

It's like I am witnessing a split reality reading all post stream reactions. Am I the only one?

[danc]

[Catblack]

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Reason 12, when it finally comes, will still be $129 to upgrade?

[EnochLight]

Finally made some friend jump on Reason Intro a few weeks ago... Now I had to give him the horrible news that Reason Intro is no longer available.
Showed him the "subscription" page, the said "wtf is that, 20€ for rental ?". Anyways, good news, jjrshop was still open for business.
Now he can use reason intro to record his guitar and it's done.

How is that horrible? It's not like his perpetual license for Reason Intro just "stops working". He can continue to use it as long as he wants. Also, there are still upgrade paths to the full (perpetual license) version if he wants.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... e-download

[miscend]

Has it been confirmed anywhere that Reason 12, when it finally comes, will still be $129 to upgrade?

They said the pricing will be similar to what it was before.

[QVprod]

Capture.PNG

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At a ratio of 2 to 1 not in favour for Reason+ on Youtube. And 240 out of 321 voted that they won't use Reason+ here on Reasontalk.......

I hope January 28th 2021 is a day of humble reflection and reckoning for the team at Reason Studios.

It was embarrassing.

It was ignorant.

It was commercial suicide.

It continuously sounded like not one of them had any PASSION OR LOVE for the subject of music making. They treated us like we were children using a kids toy - just tap that button and you can make amazing sounds. Thanks for totally disrespecting what is actually a creative, technical, and fulfilling hobby.

They made themselves look totally disconnected with their loyal fanbase.

I suggest that the next step for RS is to engage with their loyal fanbase and give real TLC. Seriously - wake up RS. Please look at Studio One features being announced on YouTube. You won't see 10,000 comments flying up the screen saying you are SH*T. It is because they listen and deliver to their customers. They are connected to users - and they don't call their users "THE INTERNET".

Yes - this is post number 4000 on page 50 something. I hope RS get one moment on this post and take stock.

Hit the nail on the head. Sphere is about £14 a month includes collaboration with other users and the last version 5 included the majority of improvements in their users most frequently requested posts. I still think reason has better instruments but other areas it is sadly lacking. Highest I have seen reason in best top 10 daw online lists is 5th. Others offering cheaper subs are higher in these lists and appear to listen to their users requests so not sure why you would choose what appears to be the more expensive and worse ranked option if you are new to creating music.

Both a Studio one and Reason user.. I think Reason + is a better option as far as subscriptions go. The added content in Sphere pales in comparison. Cloud collaboration is nice if you’re consistently working with other users with the same DAW on a team maybe, but is negligible beyond that IMO. We get live streams for free, and expert chat = ReasonTalk pretty much.

I’m not saying the pricing is perfect, but Reason+ offers something on the same level if not better than Splice as well as a DAW/plugin to use the content in. It’s definitely more valuable.

Sure S1 is more feature rich, but I use them interchangeably. I rarely miss one when using the other.

[MattiasHG]

Thanks for all the feedback so far! I'm going to duck out of answering questions on the forums for a bit to focus on my day-to-day work, but I'll keep reading the threads now and then to catch up.

[froggo_gfx]

I’m just saying that it’s exactly THAT PR policy that you are encouraging right now is what led to such a shitstorm yesterday. Zero transparency and one-sided communication with a slight touch of corporate hypocrisy is simply a BAD practice. It harms company’s image, it makes your audience upset.

Well, firstly I don't really care for "PR policy" - I care for actual intent and actions that follow and as I said I feel they're genuine and come from a good place, although maybe the announcement was clumsy and badly timed. But - and that's my 2nd point - it wasn't at all bad. IMO it is clear what they want to do, how and what are the consequences. I also don't know what kind of transparency and multi-directional communication you expect? It's a business. If you don't like their decision, you vote with your wallet. It's not any different from other DAW devs, plugin devs, general software devs, etc.

So I guess it's a matter of perception and expectations.

lol, then why’d you engage in a conversation about PR policy in the first place?

And I’m not expecting anything - I’m SUGGESTING some simple to implement actions that will help mitigate damage that has been already done and prevent more damage in the future: clear development roadmaps, active communication, proper SMM and so on. They are developing music software, not firmware for nuclear plants. There’s no need for secrecy, especially if they’re really working on some long awaited features.

And honestly, when you refer to those things (regarding communication I mean) as something a priori impossible - it’s kind of a bad sign, isn’t it?

PS And I’m personally is NOT a dissatisfied customer - I’m using shit out of RRP and Pattern Mutator and I’m happier with my new toys as I’ve ever been. But I’m an empathetic person and I get why somebody could be frustrated with RS’s actions, especially if Reason is their only DAW. And it’s clear that THEY are not gaining anything from this new Service, and when it’s presented like it’s made specifically for them - it honestly feels a bit gaslitey, as someone else said here.

[guitfnky]

Far too many people jumped on panic and hysteria bandwagon after they saw "Reason+ = subscription" without reading further about it or waiting for stream to finish and then discuss what we know and what are the facts.

Shouting about doomsday before even confirming any information makes one look stupid in the end.

this isn’t on the community.

-RS knew information had leaked to Reasontalk users days before the announcement
-RS could see the anticipation existing users here had leading up to the announcement
-RS are smart enough to deduce that Reasontalk users are almost, if not exclusively made up of existing users (who already have perpetual licenses)
-RS said themselves in the announcement that Reason+ is more geared toward people who aren’t already using Reason
-RS should have easily deduced that all the excitement generated on Reasontalk was over an announcement they knew largely didn’t apply to us
-RS allowed that speculation and excitement to continue to build for days, despite all that

Reason Studios had plenty of time to figure all that out and manage expectations before the announcement. they didn’t. this is what happens when they don’t consider what an announcement will look like to EVERYONE interested in their software—not just their current target audience.

it’s a colossal marketing failure. all of the confusion, angst, and argument that follows stems from their failure to communicate.

[motuscott]

Thanks for all the feedback so far! I'm going to duck out of answering questions on the forums for a bit to focus on my day-to-day work, but I'll keep reading the threads now and then to catch up.

Thanks for your service, Mattias

[guitfnky]

I feel bad that Mattias and others from RS (who aren’t in the marketing department, I have to assume) have to keep coming into an internet forum to explain what they’re actually trying to do, because their marketing plans are so fucked.

[Loque]

I feel bad that Mattias and others from RS (who aren’t in the marketing department, I have to assume) have to keep coming into an internet forum to explain what they’re actually trying to do, because their marketing plans are so ferk.

Yea, currently the discussion is overheated, if it still can be named a discussion or just bashing and throwing sh!t.

In fact for now, nothing had changed for any existing customer to this point. In the future ofc things might change, but this is always the case. I understand, that a lot of ppl have concerns about it (the future in general).

I also understand, that ppls expectations were different and that they get frustrated of things they are whishing for a while now - i am one of that too!

I hope ppl calm down a bit, see what they got, see what might be possible with a OPTIONAL subscription, make their decisions and move on to whatever future they need/want.

[EnochLight]

this isn’t on the community.

-RS knew information had leaked to Reasontalk users days before the announcement
-RS could see the anticipation existing users here had leading up to the announcement
-RS are smart enough to deduce that Reasontalk users are almost, if not exclusively made up of existing users (who already have perpetual licenses)
-RS said themselves in the announcement that Reason+ is more geared toward people who aren’t already using Reason
-RS should have easily deduced that all the excitement generated on Reasontalk was over an announcement they knew largely didn’t apply to us
-RS allowed that speculation and excitement to continue to build for days, despite all that

Reason Studios had plenty of time to figure all that out and manage expectations before the announcement. they didn’t. this is what happens when they don’t consider what an announcement will look like to EVERYONE interested in their software—not just their current target audience.

it’s a colossal marketing failure. all of the confusion, angst, and argument that follows stems from their failure to communicate.

Counterpoint:

-RS didn't "leak" anything by accident - this was done very much intentionally
-RS knew this calculated move would generate views (that was the whole point, and it worked)
-RS planned to do the livestream (as this was clearly all planned from the start)
-Nothing RS could have said or done differently would have changed the rage that the majority of viewers expressed in this thread or on YouTube short of not announcing an OPTIONAL subscription service.
-In the grand scheme of things, there's less than 200 people in this forum that are regularly active.
-The YouTube livestream had less than 2000 viewers at any given time, and currently shows less than 12,000 views as of this morning.
-RS literally has tens of thousands of registered users (Reason licenses sold and RE's sold easily support the incomes of 30+ employees whose average income, in Sweden, is pretty good).

Their marketing was the best that could be done and handled no worse than any other company that's announced a subscription service option. I was their when Adobe went subscription ONLY with Audition (after having bought the assets from Syntrillium and releasing one or two upgrades under the perpetual license model). If you want to talk about trainwreck, they're a class-A example. I wouldn't put RS under that same banner, though.

[MarzT]

Thanks for all the feedback so far! I'm going to duck out of answering questions on the forums for a bit to focus on my day-to-day work, but I'll keep reading the threads now and then to catch up.

please allow the "old subscription" option like before still - I pretty much have everything being a Suite 11 owner I only don't have Friktion - do I want to rent to buy it? having an option to access "as needed" is still cool.

The more options the better - that's what made Reason what it is in the first place - the "open concept-ness" of it all.

I'm on PC and I own all the major DAWs - I love the "analogue" feel of Reason. Nothing is faster in terms of being able to come up with something "cool" that sounds "pro" very "fast" if I have a mega deadline.

A WNTER tutorial on sonicacademy.com where he sampled everything in Reason and then did everything in Reason got me sold.

this one:

then Josh Mobley's "What's the Reason?" sample project - so lush, so vibrant...

no turning back.

I couldn't consider Reason until vst 2.4 came along and then now the plugin idea is damned cool and I use it.

Reason's "strengths" are under-touted imo, when I did some guitar tracking I was amazed how well Reason's "warping" is compared to other DAWs, even though everyone says they implement elastique pro etc... my guitar playing is shit but Reason allows me to easily quantize and it sounds like I actually played it.

The mixer emulation is Boss. When you go "wide" on the mixer console it really sounds like the sound is "enveloping you"

You have to get some of your champions to come back on youtube - Sef Nitty is terrific. MC the Future - you gotta get that man back on track.

Jelie is terrific.

Kudos to the Ryan streams - tall order and one of the best pandemic shows from any "company" hands down.

All the companies have shown "growth" and "progress" but for me Bitwig still isn't doing enough of the "right" progress that helps me in my work, FL studio has been fixing things that were coded bad in the first place... Ableton 11 will be sexy for five minutes before the groaning starts again.

Reason has really taken on new life - some of the deals have been really good on rack sales etc

The innovative players/utilities and the "routing capabilities" thanks to Reason as a plugin as a vst effect... all very good. The Reason Mixer is so good - how much longer before Harrison Mixbus calls it a day?

Great work. I hope Reason Studios is more financially solvent now with all these improvements. Go big or Go home. Good work. Congrats. Don't be shy. Tell us how much the changes have translated in terms of new customers.

$20 is too much - til April 27, make it that anyone who signs a year gets first year at $10 per month

And existing licensers $5 per month first year

after that, do whatever price you want.

Even just to have "Friktion" I'd pay $5 per month like c'mon that is easy. Who can say no? If you miss it come April 27, too bad so sad

[guitfnky]

I feel bad that Mattias and others from RS (who aren’t in the marketing department, I have to assume) have to keep coming into an internet forum to explain what they’re actually trying to do, because their marketing plans are so ferk.

Yea, currently the discussion is overheated, if it still can be named a discussion or just bashing and throwing sh!t.

In fact for now, nothing had changed for any existing customer to this point. In the future ofc things might change, but this is always the case. I understand, that a lot of ppl have concerns about it (the future in general).

I also understand, that ppls expectations were different and that they get frustrated of things they are whishing for a while now - i am one of that too!

I hope ppl calm down a bit, see what they got, see what might be possible with a OPTIONAL subscription, make their decisions and move on to whatever future they need/want.

couldn’t agree more. it just sucks that there has to be so much confusion and BS before the smoke clears, before we can actually see things for what they are—because RS can’t get their marketing together.

[Nielsen]

So much doom in the YouTube comments regarding yesterday's livestream. Everyone appears to have concluded that Reason will become subscription only, even though they've specifically stated that the next full upgrade will be offered as a standalone purchase. It's also the only thing that makes sense from a business viewpoint.

Why would a company shake off its entire existing customer base, which for years has made numerous one-time purchases for upgrades and extensions? Question may come across naive, but by going subscription only they'd say goodbye to a considerable source of future income that subscriptions cannot replace, mainly because existing customers with several owned licences are unlikely to ever sign up for a subscription model just to have the latest features and plugins. Reason Studios will still need those one-time purchases from the old segment in order to maximize income going forward. No?

[cymek74]

I have Reason 11, I'm not angry at all about Reason+ as a concept to produce more revenue and to attract new users, because unlike myself who already has a full version with lots of REs they get a way to start their Reason Journey even though it wouldn't be the way I would do it personally. I'm not worried about having to pay a subscription to access Reason, I never thought that at the announcement and couldn't understand the confusion, and to say it will all be a forced subscription eventually even for someone like myself is just doom-filled speculation.
But I am still disgruntled because we all know by now the things that are consistently asked for in user requests and over that time RRP and now Reason+ has been developed and rolled out. If it's true or not, (most likely not), it seems like RS is saying f**k the user requests, they can wait, we're doing this instead. If a point update with VST3 implementation, VST midi out and say track folders came out just prior or at the same time as Reason+, and with the GUI and whatever promised in the 12 release I'd be as happy as a pig in syrup, but it just seems like, you'll just wait for it loyal user, we're doing us first.

[DecafDreams]

So much doom in the YouTube comments regarding yesterday's livestream. Everyone appears to have concluded that Reason will become subscription only, even though they've specifically stated that the next full upgrade will be offered as a standalone purchase. It's also the only thing that makes sense from a business viewpoint.

Why would a company shake off its entire existing customer base, which for years has made numerous one-time purchases for upgrades and extensions? Question may come across naive, but by going subscription only they'd say goodbye to a considerable source of income that subscriptions cannot replace, mainly because existing customers with several owned licences are unlikely to ever sign up for a subscription model just to have the latest features and plugins. Reason Studios will still need those one-time purchases from the original segment in order to maximize income going forward. No?

Because there's a tug of war going on and it's between whether the company wants to satisfy new customers or satisfy old customers. It's hard to do both. The traditional existing customers are probably seen as baggage that's actually preventing the company from being as dynamic as its financial investors want it to be. They want it to attract a large but completely different and untapped-into demographic.

If Reason was setting up today then they would be a subscription model from day 1 because that's the way the technology industry works now.

[guitfnky]

this isn’t on the community.

-RS knew information had leaked to Reasontalk users days before the announcement
-RS could see the anticipation existing users here had leading up to the announcement
-RS are smart enough to deduce that Reasontalk users are almost, if not exclusively made up of existing users (who already have perpetual licenses)
-RS said themselves in the announcement that Reason+ is more geared toward people who aren’t already using Reason
-RS should have easily deduced that all the excitement generated on Reasontalk was over an announcement they knew largely didn’t apply to us
-RS allowed that speculation and excitement to continue to build for days, despite all that

Reason Studios had plenty of time to figure all that out and manage expectations before the announcement. they didn’t. this is what happens when they don’t consider what an announcement will look like to EVERYONE interested in their software—not just their current target audience.

it’s a colossal marketing failure. all of the confusion, angst, and argument that follows stems from their failure to communicate.

Counterpoint:

-RS didn't "leak" anything by accident - this was done very much intentionally
-RS knew this calculated move would generate views (that was the whole point, and it worked)
-RS planned to do the livestream (as this was clearly all planned from the start)
-Nothing RS could have said or done differently would have changed the rage that the majority of viewers expressed in this thread or on YouTube short of not announcing an OPTIONAL subscription service.
-In the grand scheme of things, there's less than 200 people in this forum that are regularly active.
-The YouTube livestream had less than 2000 viewers at any given time, and currently shows less than 12,000 views as of this morning.
-RS literally has tens of thousands of registered users (Reason licenses sold and RE's sold easily support the incomes of 30+ employees whose average income, in Sweden, is pretty good).

Their marketing was the best that could be done and handled no worse than any other company that's announced a subscription service option. I was there when Adobe went subscription ONLY with Audition (after having bought the assets from Syntrillium and releasing one or two upgrades under the perpetual license model). If you want to talk about trainwreck, they're a class-A example. I wouldn't put RS under that same banner, though.

this is exactly the same kind of short sightedness that gets them into the situation of having to put out flame wars every time they make an announcement. I don’t mean that as an attack—it’s just a very defeatist viewpoint. humans are pretty smart at solving problems, and this isn’t even a particularly difficult one to solve.

1–if they leaked on purpose, that makes it even worse.

2–all of the outlets you mentioned are aimed primarily at existing users—even the livestream. that makes their marketing approach all the more baffling. it makes zero sense to get a set of users you’re not even targeting excited about an announcement that doesn’t even affect them.

3–the idea that there’s nothing short of giving away the game that could have been done to prevent this, is just false. all Ryan had to do in his video is say something like “we have exciting news for people who are interested in Reason, but haven’t yet been able to come aboard”. gives nothing away, signals to existing users that they should maybe not expect so much for this particular announcement, and also signals that for them, nothing is really changing (i.e. perpetual licenses are still in place).

*edit*

and I’ll add a fourth...

4–if they’d had a good marketing plan in place to begin with, they wouldn’t have needed to do #3