Reason updates (11.3.7 / 11.3.8) and Reason+

[hfw]

Here's the thing, folks...

Let's say theoretically that R12 is planned for the summer.

Whether R+ is introduced now or not, R12 would still be planned for the summer.

If a subscription is not for you, that doesn't change what happens in the summer. If R+ isn't released today, nothing happens today and we have nothing to talk about. R12 would be released in the summer.

Are you following?

If anything, a subscription creates an obligation for RS to continue to innovate and update Reason in order to keep it enticing and keep subscribers on board.

So I don't get the outrage. Everything going on in the world and you want to put so much energy into the fact that you think an option of a subscription to software is the end of the world.

But the way they speak and sell it. Listen to them! They play the liscence down, listen to them! The liscence is said quickly, its not the focus anymore. They say shit like always up to date, no worrying about new updates, already waiting.... this is how it has always been. Its diengenious, and it hints that long term the mobile phone ceo guy wants it all sub. Why would they offer half price for a year for liscence owners? its really looks like its coming, and its the tactics of them thats really got everyones back up.

Im still wanting to hear thoughts on how they literally had a car crash marketing plan built into a bs update. The appearnce of the companion option, then the live stream. The fact they sat and planned that - then acted like "aww you eagle eyed guys, you!, were gonna do a live stream with the CEO to answer your questions!" - like, that was all planned in a meeting. Its just crap. But then thats just my take on it. others wont mind. I just feel silly im all amped up about this hahah!

[Magnus101]

Here's the thing, folks...

Let's say theoretically that R12 is planned for the summer.

Whether R+ is introduced now or not, R12 would still be planned for the summer.

If a subscription is not for you, that doesn't change what happens in the summer. If R+ isn't released today, nothing happens today and we have nothing to talk about. R12 would be released in the summer.

Are you following?

If anything, a subscription creates an obligation for RS to continue to innovate and update Reason in order to keep it enticing and keep subscribers on board.

So I don't get the outrage. Everything going on in the world and you want to put so much energy into the fact that you think an option of a subscription to software is the end of the world.

But then theres is this little quote about the Reason+/subscription users:
"The latest up-to-date version of Reason software, both standalone DAW and Reason Rack Plugin for VST/AU/ AAX. No matter where or how you work, we got your back. All the new stuff we make you get access to immediately."
With that follows that every update, point of full, will be delayed for us normal paying license owners.
The ones that have payed much more so far is us and we get updates later!
That's a real bummer!

[Aosta]

All I can see with Reason+ is an absolute ton of bland genre specific 'soundpacks' and a slow down in development because they already have your monthly contribution and if you unsub you can't access your work or use the software...they have you by the balls.

[QVprod]

I have doubts about sales being hurt, only die hard fans check the shop for new RE regularly. They’ll continue to do so.

It seems a shame that you haven't realised the obvious blow to the third-party RE market - the devs have.

At the moment, RS’s REs don’t really compete directly with 3rd parties too much.

So the endless calls for RS to actually develop their product in a meaningful way will just get worse? Seems like RS have shot themselves in the foot with this then no?

What make you think subscribers/new users aren’t interested in the DAW? Reason+ isn’t just the plugin. They’re under a higher obligation to keep people interested with a subscription.

So again, the logic goes - you need to buy all the REs you're going to use, AS WELL AS a monthly sub?

How many people want to buy all of the RS REs as well as subscribe? You subscribe and get everything, or simply stick to the traditional route and buy what you want separately.

This move is clearly - as has been stated by RS on numerous occasions - to attract new Reason users - users with a different set of priorities to the current users - why are you trying so hard to sell it to current Reason users?

They’re selling to everyone. And everyone’s needs and preferences are different. There are current users who will subscribe as well as new ones. They’re not the first music software company to do an optional subscription service.

[selig]

Well, not completely sure that is on point... Who knows what resources would have gone where if RS hadn't opted to develop and push R+...

But, as much as this new direction is not at all appealing to me, it seems to be something RS wants to try... And for the sake of the company and therefore all future Reason versions I sure hope they succeed...

D.

I'm with you on the resources thing. They say they are deprecating the old red Dongle because of lack of resources to keep it functional. So there are ALWAYS choices about where to "spend" your resources…

As for developing new core app features, folks like to say the engineers are not the ones doing the sound packs, and they are technically correct. But if they weren't paying the folks to design Reason+ and the sound packs etc. they could instead hire more engineers to work on the core app.
I appreciate they need to stay in business and attract new customers, so I'm not saying anything should change. Just that resources are resources, and the company is in control of where those resources are used.

[Kilsane]

What would be good is that for the person who subscribes there is a counterpart, after a certain subscription period that he can benefit from a promo code to buy stuff in the Reason store included, because the current offer gives me the impression that only reason studio wins.

What if I don't have Reason or RE when I end my subscription?

[DaveyG]

Just that resources are resources, and the company is in control of where those resources are used.

Exactly this. That James chap said he had been product manager for Reason+ development for the last 12 months. Imagine what else we could have had from that team in a year...

[bxbrkrz]

For those who are using the service: do you think Roland Cloud Ultimate is a better package deal than Reason+?

Roland Cloud subscriber here. It doesn't come with a DAW, so Reason+ is a better package if you want an all-in-one production environment inside Reason. But if I'm using another DAW and have to choose between RRP and Roland Cloud? That's tough, though I'd probably lean towards RRP+ since it covers a lot more than Roland's offering.

That was my guess. Thanks.

[fieldframe]

You're both right!

Everyone's creative process is different. Sometimes the same person's creative process is different on different days! Some people work best when they can get ideas out quickly; some people work best with slow experimentation and exploration. Some people benefit a lot from fresh presets; some find the best inspiration from tinkering.

So you're saying that some creatives don't want the fastest way to an idea? I'm not saying all ideas come fast, just that no creative I've ever met or worked with was looking for a SLOWER tool to use. Even if the process takes 10 weeks, we don't want tools that get in our way and slow us down - could be we're talking about different things here?

It seems to me you're presupposing that all creatives start with an idea in their heads and that their only goal is to get it out. Totally valid way to work, but far from the only one! Not everyone starts with a goal of where an idea is going to end up.

[QVprod]

You’re not. It’s completely optional. They’ve already said they don’t intend to kill perpetual licenses.

Yet...if it's anything like Adobe we will see support for previous versions of Reason phased out and a new 'Reason Classic' version being rolled out for purchase for those not on the sub train.

Unlikely. RS does not have the kind of market share Adobe does. And they’re not the first to do a subscription. Slate, Avid (Pro Tools), Plugin Alliance, and Presonus all have subscription options, and all of them are optional.

[hfw]

Literally marketed in an update....

Like, someone said "i know! we could put the companion we have been working on in the update but not say anything... then everyone will be speculating, then we will do this social media post where were like "aww you got us!", then well do a live stream with mobile phone guy ceo! the kids will LOVE it!!!!"

haha - thats cringe, and i cant trust a team that thinks such things are good practice

[Timmy Crowne]

If this gives RS the money they need to finally deliver the features veteran users have been asking for, and fast, I actually don't mind the subscription.

That being said, the hype RS started building two days ago primed me to spend money on music production again. I was disappointed by this announcement, but I was still primed to spend the money. So I just bought Bitwig!

[tt_lab]

For those who are using the service: do you think Roland Cloud Ultimate is a better package deal than Reason+?

I have Roland Pro because I just bought an mc 707 and it came for 1 year free,wouldn't do it otherwise, subs ar not for me.
The thing with roland is that you get their daw even in their free tier. Called Zenbeats. Then they have a 3 dollar a month sub a 10$ a month one and a 20$ one.
the latter gives you everything just as with r+. Their daw is multiplatform including ios (don't know about android) and you can install it in any computer you want etc...Their selling point is start making music in your phone and finish it in your pc with no hassle.

[vertibration]

I just want the companion to not open when I open reason.......

[ScuzzyEye]

But then theres is this little quote about the Reason+/subscription users:
"The latest up-to-date version of Reason software, both standalone DAW and Reason Rack Plugin for VST/AU/ AAX. No matter where or how you work, we got your back. All the new stuff we make you get access to immediately."
With that follows that every update, point of full, will be delayed for us normal paying license owners.
The ones that have payed much more so far is us and we get updates later!
That's a real bummer!

Or you can not assume the worst, and read that as a bit of marketing fluff, "Nothing to worry about, always have the latest version, and all our instruments and effects!" Because the alternative for non-subscribers is that you don't get the latest version until you pay for the upgrade. Which is a delay. That delay depends on how long it takes your to notice there is a new version, and how quickly you can enter your credit card number.

[Kilsane]

I hope that to sell their subscription to new customers they have planned an advertising campaign and I wish them good luck (even if I do not feel concerned by the subscription in its current state), if at least it brings back enough money to upgrade the software and pay additional developer so it's not that bad

[Catblack]

Hey, how about a free subscription by using your points from the rewards store?

Oh yeah, because the rewards store is useless.

As a reason user for 20 years I really hate this subscription thing.

And hiding the link to the RE Store is a really big middle finger to the developers.

[eusti]

But then theres is this little quote about the Reason+/subscription users:
"The latest up-to-date version of Reason software, both standalone DAW and Reason Rack Plugin for VST/AU/ AAX. No matter where or how you work, we got your back. All the new stuff we make you get access to immediately."
With that follows that every update, point of full, will be delayed for us normal paying license owners.
The ones that have payed much more so far is us and we get updates later!
That's a real bummer!

Or you can not assume the worst, and read that as a bit of marketing fluff, "Nothing to worry about, always have the latest version, and all our instruments and effects!" Because the alternative for non-subscribers is that you don't get the latest version until you pay for the upgrade. Which is a delay. That delay depends on how long it takes your to notice there is a new version, and how quickly you can enter your credit card number.

Maybe talking about roll out of point updates?

D.

[Threpus]

Dear Reason Studios,


I understand that the subscription changes nothing for perpetual license owners, but that is a problem when those owners have been desperate for improvements to the DAW itself.

It’s opportunity cost- the time and attention Reason Studios is dedicating to attracting new customers is time not spent serving the ones they already have.

Most users know that RS has to generate revenue, but the company seems oblivious to the reality of what makes Reason special to begin with. It’s the unique workflow- not the outdated devices- that keep me coming back. There are only a few stock devices that I even touch- most were replaced by better options years ago.

The key to making current users happy and attracting new ones is to leverage your strengths while correcting your weaknesses. You are doing neither. Listen to what people are telling you.

Please, Reason Studios- stop taking the customers you’ve already won over for granted. Be advised: loyalty is a two-way street.


Respectfully yours,
For the time being,

Will

[stp2015]

"We just want Reason to be available to everyone, even in Africa!"
--> Then don't remove Reason Intro from the shop on the same day

"We are just bringing a new option, nothing else changes"
--> Then don't remove Intro from the shop on the same day.
--> Then don't remove Suite on the same day.
--> Then don't remove Rigs on the same day.

Just be honest. Tell us you believe the subscription is the most profitable option, so this is what you would like users to chose. Tell us this is a business decision. Tell us that it also has positive aspects and you hope we will embrace these aspects. It is difficult to sell this as a "we want to be better" decision, when clearly the CEO has decided what he believes is the best way to make money. That is what this is, nothing else. In my opinion.

[JiggeryPokery]

Reason+ IS literally more up to date by giving you every new RE as it is released.

No, Giles, it isn't. They're letting them rent every new RE they release. That's a big difference, and please stop trying to normalise their behaviour as somehow being for new users' benefit and they're doing them some kind of favour. They're not "giving" them anything. You read the sponsorships from some of those song-writers praising all the sounds, and yet it's deeply ironic given that in reality they use about the same number of sounds as they do chord progressions!

But these new users, from what I currently understand, will own nothing. Not even a license. If they stop the subscription after a year they'll have nothing but unopenable songfiles and billions of random ReFills and patches they've been bombarded and bamboozled with three times a week, and possibly, if we're lucky, some third-party RE purchases they bought in a sale for peanuts that they can't even resell (oh but there's always RRP! ). They could go ahead and buy a license and get the product outright, but now they've effectively paid double. And the crazy thing is that's exactly what Reason Studios wants: that is what the long-term financial projections will be predicated upon. There's no other reason to do it, rather than cheat people who don't have £309 or £500 upfront. It's seedy. It's shady. And it's intentional. The excuse might be the old "consistent revenue instead of an upgrade bump every other year", but most of us didn't buy into that cobblers when Adobe tried it. If RS thought they could get away it, full licenses would be gone. Don't think they didn't consider it: unfortunately for them, they know they're not Adobe, and they have lots of competition, most of whom have a far bigger market cap.

Reason is not an essential monthly outgoing. Buy it. Don't buy it. But for christ's sake don't rent it. I mean, look, if people choose this option, that's fine if they fully understand the financial implications. I just fear that many won't. It's the software equivalent of a pre-paid meter. What too many companies now want is a slice of our limited monthly income, and this especially impacts on those with less money, who inevitably end up spending more than those of us who either saved up or had the disposable income for the large initial outlay.

Third party shop revenue from new users will have to drop, because new users' revenue will be tied up in a monthly payment, and they're getting "free" content constantly. Old[er] users aren't buying REs because they've bought most everything they're going to buy at this point. To be fair, last Black Friday was better than I expected, but there's no real incentive to develop an expensive new product: most everything new in the shop (or added to Reason itself) these days, including, sadly, a great deal of Reason Studios' own stuff, is basic reskins of Gorillia Editor modules.

[certifiedbeatz]

Here's the thing, folks...

Let's say theoretically that R12 is planned for the summer.

Whether R+ is introduced now or not, R12 would still be planned for the summer.

If a subscription is not for you, that doesn't change what happens in the summer. If R+ isn't released today, nothing happens today and we have nothing to talk about. R12 would be released in the summer.

Are you following?

If anything, a subscription creates an obligation for RS to continue to innovate and update Reason in order to keep it enticing and keep subscribers on board.

So I don't get the outrage. Everything going on in the world and you want to put so much energy into the fact that you think an option of a subscription to software is the end of the world.

The outrage is the monthly cost during this tough times

[chimp_spanner]

All I can see with Reason+ is an absolute ton of bland genre specific 'soundpacks' and a slow down in development because they already have your monthly contribution and if you unsub you can't access your work or use the software...they have you by the balls.

That's one way to look at it. Another way would be that if people don't feel they're getting their money's worth, they'll render all their stuff out in stems and MIDI and cancel the sub. I personally really like the idea of packs but I think people will be expecting a lot more over time. New devices, new features in the rack and DAW. RS know this. And I'd be very surprised if they didn't have a roadmap of things they can do with all the money R+ can bring in.

Is that rosey optimism? Maybe! But hey I've had an awful day and I'm just trying to turn it around

[ShelLuser]

The only reason I would get concerned is if Reason Studios sold the company to some unknown non music company who is profit driven like many Software companies did.

We're already there.

[Magnus101]

But then theres is this little quote about the Reason+/subscription users:
"The latest up-to-date version of Reason software, both standalone DAW and Reason Rack Plugin for VST/AU/ AAX. No matter where or how you work, we got your back. All the new stuff we make you get access to immediately."
With that follows that every update, point of full, will be delayed for us normal paying license owners.
The ones that have payed much more so far is us and we get updates later!
That's a real bummer!

Or you can not assume the worst, and read that as a bit of marketing fluff, "Nothing to worry about, always have the latest version, and all our instruments and effects!" Because the alternative for non-subscribers is that you don't get the latest version until you pay for the upgrade. Which is a delay. That delay depends on how long it takes your to notice there is a new version, and how quickly you can enter your credit card number.

They should have reassured us normal users, because that very much looked like a positive benefit for subscribers only.
It was said in other places too.
But, yes, it can be interpreted in different ways. LIke you said, as soon as you pay you get a full new version.
It could also be interpreted as "updates, point or full, to licensed users first". I mean that is an incentive to pay for a subscription. Having them delayed for other users. I think that actually have been done before for other products.