Re: Reason 10 & above, 2 BRUTAL "benchmark" songs included

[StephenHutchinson]

I tried out "Bechmark 2020 R10 Complex V1" on my Mac mini M1 (16 GB RAM - 1TB) and I got to about the 40 second mark before it started to stutter, but then it corrected itself after 5 seconds... I then let it go to 60 seconds then closed the file. The interface was definitely laggy but the sound was pristine with only the one instance of crackling at the 40 second mark.

[vectro]

I am now curious how much better things will fare with an M1 native build, as they are already more than sufficient for my larger projects! Always nice to have power to spare…

Logic in Rosetta vs native makes a big difference on my Mac Studio. I would not expect Reason to be equally fast as Logic at native as they've been working with the Apple SoCs for years, but I do expect Reason to become way much faster when native.

[Heigen5]

benchmark_test_Reason_12.2.9d40.png

Hi, did the test with the settings on a pic, with the benchmark file1.
I got to the 2:37. This means I got 15 seconds more playing time than before, yay!

My PC specs are:

Dell Precision 3640 MT
Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-10900K 10. Gen. 10 Cores CPU @ 3.70GHz 3.70 GHz - Turbo 5,3Ghz
Dell Inc. 0D4MD1 (U3E1) Motherboard,
Samsung SSD 2Tb Harddrive,
Seagate Expansion Portable 1 Tt External Harddrive
16Gb DDR4 Ram
Asus Monitor PA278QV (2560x1440@59Hz)
Intel UHD Graphics Card 630 (Dell)
Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit
Mackie Onyx Producer 2x2 Audio Interface

[sublunar]

I brought up a similar point in my post a few above yours which nobody noticed/responded to.

The reason these benchmark test files are such ridiculous large monstrosities is because that's what it takes to stress a system using the ridiculously low/unusable latency of 25ms..

You pointed out one simple way of doing a better test. I had a different suggestion which was setting the benchmark to an actually usable latency. Either way would get us to a better understanding of how a system will perform without these monstrosities. As it is, these current benchmarks are completely useless to me or, IMO, for anyone who needs to see how well a given system will record at real world live recording latencies. In my experience, 5ms is the maximum latency when trying to play/record something live. 25ms tells me nothing useful about what a system is capable of as I ranted about and quoted below.

I don't know enough about how to create a real world test, but I too wondered why a high buffer - just means it takes that much longer to get to "100%"! ;(

My suggestion wasn't about how to construct a proper test, it was how to best judge the breaking point accurately (which would apply to any chosen test method).

I mean, wouldn't the best test also be the best judge on a system's breaking point? I think we're just looking at the same thing differently and there's nothing wrong with that.

I truly don't understand how you and I are the first people to ask why we're using such a ridiculously high buffer. This is like testing a car's 0-60 speed in order to (otherwise blindly) guess as to which one will have the highest top speed. I'm not even really sure what the point of this is since most crappy computers/audio interfaces can handle recording at 25ms with little problem. Are these tests intended to find out how many plugins/VI's you can have in a session before your computer crashes? Doesn't anyone else play/record an instrument IRL along with the ones in their projects?

To summarize: a latency of 25ms is useless for anyone who records live instruments because the delay is too significant to properly play in time with the other instruments coming out of the DAW. I find it surprising that this is the first time anyone has pointed this out.

It would take much less effort/the benchmark files would be much smaller/etc if the tests were set to ~5ms latency. AND that would give everyone some useful information, not just the people who make their music entirely within reason. But eh whatev.. I already built a new PC a few months ago and it works ok so I won't care again until the next time I'm looking to build a new one.

[Dominik73]

Hi! I own iMac m1 16/1TB - after upgrade of reason 12 i have decided to test my system again:

previously - mac were 3 timex slower than my amd 3600 (in rosetta mode, on 4 slower cores)
after the upgrade of Reason 12 to utilize faster cores also in rosetta mode is faster than AMD

i have tested both on 9,5 version of benchmark.

Now i wait for native m1 support, meanwhile downloaded brutal benchmark file 2, and my results are:

512 samples - about 30 +s
1024 samples - about 40 + s
2048 samples about 55+s

My mac - os 13 ventura, AMD - windows 11

Performance of mac m1 is sufficient for me - but 16 gb of ram i small, so, my next purchase wille be studio pro 64/1tb - after my experience that this platform is optimal for audio. (making, mastering)

Sorry for my bad eglish, i just had to share my results and conclusion.
Greetings!

[Loque]

I just did another comparison between R11 and R12 latest performance update.

Spec: Win10, i7-8096K @ 4.00Ghz, 16GB RAM, Focusrite 2i2 1st gen.
R11: A 1st crackle around 35s, 2nd at 45s, unplayable at ~52s
R12: unplayable

A few sidenotes: R12 seem to use more CPU on loading, but seem to take longer to load the song. Memory is nearly equal, but seems a bit lower in R12 depending on graphics setting. Total memory usage is around 9-11GB.

[wendylou]

iMac Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2020
Processor: 3.8 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i7
Graphics: AMD Radeon Pro 5700 XT 16 GB
Memory: 64 GB 2667 MHz DDR4
SSD: 2TB Internal
macOS: Ventura 13.0.1 (22A400)

REASON: 12.2.10d39
Sample Rate: 44.1 KHz
Buffer Size: 1,024 samples

Benchmark Song #1: 1min, 16 sec to very first audio glitch (bzzzt!)
Benchmark Song #2: 1min, 10 sec to very first audio glitch (bzzzt!)

I also experienced crazy-long load times on song #2. I resaved it to see if that made a difference in loading time. The resaved version had a smaller file size of 14.4 MB down from the original 22.5 MB. It also appeared to load faster although it still had a crazy-long load time.

I'm considering an M1, M2, or M3 next year but will probably wait until Reason runs natively on the M chips.

[Re8et]

Benchmark file 1
Reason 12.6d52
Mac mini M1 8gb RAM - Motu Asio 44.1 - 1024 samples 25ms.

Plays no pops till 1:00 min
Plays only pops from 1:20 min

going to upgrade to M2 Mac soon.
Are there any M2 users that could upload the benchmark results?
ty.

[Re8et]

Benchmark file 1
Reason 12.6.1d72
Mac mini M2 8gb RAM - Motu Asio 44.1 - 1024 samples 25ms.

Plays no pops till 1:00 min
Plays only pops from 1:20 min

No better preformances whatsoever...

[Billy+]

Benchmark file 1
Reason 12.6.1d72
Mac mini M2 8gb RAM - Motu Asio 44.1 - 1024 samples 25ms.

Plays no pops till 1:00 min
Plays only pops from 1:20 min

No better preformances whatsoever...

Have you tried changing up the performance settings ?

[Re8et]

Benchmark file 1
Reason 12.6.1d72
Mac mini M2 8gb RAM - Motu Asio 44.1 - 1024 samples 25ms.

Plays no pops till 1:00 min
Plays only pops from 1:20 min

No better preformances whatsoever...

Have you tried changing up the performance settings ?

The new M2 mini has 4 cores options as the M1 had.
I left the setting at 4 cores.

[A.sch3]

Ryzen 7900X - 32G RAM at 6000Mhz
Windows 10 22H2
Reason 12
Running BRUTAL 2

DSP was not redlining before 5:30 like everything was fine.
After that, solid red line but still playing fine.

First pops in the sound at 6:22

[tanni]

Ryzen 7900X - 32G RAM at 6000Mhz
Windows 10 22H2
Reason 12
Running BRUTAL 2

DSP was not redlining before 5:30 like everything was fine.
After that, solid red line but still playing fine.

First pops in the sound at 6:22

Hey, could you please tell us your concrete specs from your PC ? I want to build up a new PC with a Ryzen 7950x3d.....
Thanks....

[wendylou]

iMac Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2020
Processor: 3.8 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i7
Graphics: AMD Radeon Pro 5700 XT 16 GB
Memory: 64 GB 2667 MHz DDR4
SSD: 2TB Internal
macOS: Ventura 13.0.1 (22A400)

REASON: 12.2.10d39
Sample Rate: 44.1 KHz
Buffer Size: 1,024 samples

Benchmark Song #1: 1min, 16 sec to very first audio glitch (bzzzt!)
Benchmark Song #2: 1min, 10 sec to very first audio glitch (bzzzt!)

I just tested on my new:

Mac Studio M2 Ultra
24‑core CPU, 60‑core GPU, 32‑core Neural Engine
64GB unified memory
2TB SSD storage

Reason 12.6.1d72 build 15,120)
Sample Rate: 48,000 Hz
Buffer size: 512 samples

Benchmark file #1:
DSP never maxed out, audio never glitched, played to the end. Wow!

For Benchmark file #2, I followed the directions and set:
Sample Rate: 44,100 Hz
Max Buffer size: 4,0096 samples

Song took a long time to load!

Ran flawlessly up to:
5:44 DSP red bar briefly flutters on and then off
6:00 Audio glitching/dropouts occur

[A.sch3]

Hey, could you please tell us your concrete specs from your PC ? I want to build up a new PC with a Ryzen 7950x3d.....
Thanks....

Sure :
Motherboard : Asus ProArt X670E-Creator WIFI
CPU : AMD 7900X
RAM : G.Skill Flare X5 6000Mhz 32bg kit (16gb x 2)
Graphics card : AMD 6950X
SSD : Samsung 2To 980 Pro

It's a fine machine for music production and gaming. I guess it will be even better for gaming with the 7950X3D for you, but for my use i never had any performance issue, and i'm quite the track amount freak when it comes to music production.

[tanni]

Hey, could you please tell us your concrete specs from your PC ? I want to build up a new PC with a Ryzen 7950x3d.....
Thanks....

Sure :
Motherboard : Asus ProArt X670E-Creator WIFI
CPU : AMD 7900X
RAM : G.Skill Flare X5 6000Mhz 32bg kit (16gb x 2)
Graphics card : AMD 6950X
SSD : Samsung 2To 980 Pro

It's a fine machine for music production and gaming. I guess it will be even better for gaming with the 7950X3D for you, but for my use i never had any performance issue, and i'm quite the track amount freak when it comes to music production.

Thanks very much. Basically, I don't play any games on the computer, it's exclusively for music production. So I will probably also take the graphics card from the processor and not install a separate one.
A German music magazine has carried out tests which, as a result, also recommend the 3d cache processors from AMD for music production. That's why I chose the 7950x3d. I still have problems with the selection of the RAM. I would like 2 x 32 GB dual-channel RAM with 6000 and CAS 30, because according to AMD this should be the sweet spot of the processor, but then unfortunately you are already in the overclocking area.

[A.sch3]

A German music magazine has carried out tests which, as a result, also recommend the 3d cache processors from AMD for music production. That's why I chose the 7950x3d. I still have problems with the selection of the RAM. I would like 2 x 32 GB dual-channel RAM with 6000 and CAS 30, because according to AMD this should be the sweet spot of the processor, but then unfortunately you are already in the overclocking area.

Really ? Wow i didn't knew that, can you provide the article in question i'd like to read it !
For RAM, don't forget to get an "EXPO" kit as it's the official "tuned-in" RAM that AMD Bios will support, you can activate the EXPO profile in the BIOS.
I believe the kit i got has a decent latency value of 32, which is close enough to 30.

Have fun assembling your PC !

[tanni]

A German music magazine has carried out tests which, as a result, also recommend the 3d cache processors from AMD for music production. That's why I chose the 7950x3d. I still have problems with the selection of the RAM. I would like 2 x 32 GB dual-channel RAM with 6000 and CAS 30, because according to AMD this should be the sweet spot of the processor, but then unfortunately you are already in the overclocking area.

Really ? Wow i didn't knew that, can you provide the article in question i'd like to read it !
For RAM, don't forget to get an "EXPO" kit as it's the official "tuned-in" RAM that AMD Bios will support, you can activate the EXPO profile in the BIOS.
I believe the kit i got has a decent latency value of 32, which is close enough to 30.

Have fun assembling your PC !

the article was in the renowned German journal CT. Here is a video link to it (at 7:49 Min):

A very clear difference in favor of the 3d cache processors!

Yes, I'm looking for an EXPO dual-channel kit with 2x32 GB and 6000, but here in Germany it's not readily available in shops at the moment. Many also have stability problems with it in the overclocking forums. The RAM then usually has to run with 1.4 volts (well above the specification)

[Kategra]

Motherboard : Gigabite X870 ELITE ICE WIFI7
CPU : AMD 9800 X3D (8 cores)
RAM : Corsair Vengeance 32GB DDR5 6000 MTS CL30
Graphics card : RTX 4080 Super
SSD : WD SN850X

Audio Interface - ancient RME Fireface 400
sample rate 1024
Windows 11 24H2
Reason 12.7.4d3 (build 15.815)

Brutal#2 - first pop @ 3 min 32 seconds

time it takes to load the brutal 2 file ~ 1 min 54 seconds