Ernst Nathorst-Böös

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scotward57
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Joined: 28 Jul 2019

Post 19 Nov 2020

It's been a while since he's been gone. Some of us would like to know what ever happened to him. I kind of felt sorry for him. He oversaw the most beautiful music production software program ever invented and for a long time he fought off the mob of crybabies calling for audio recording, MIDI out, VSTs, etc.

And I downloaded the Reason 20 goodies folder and listened to the demos. I realized that the music being produced by today's Reason users hasn't really improved all that much, if at all, since the glory days of the first version of Reason. Why is that?

It could be that the vision of Ernst Nathorst-Böös was complete and didn't really need much of the fluff that followed. Oh I guess some devices sound "better" just from scrolling from presets. But Ernst made you work hard back then and it really paid off for many of you.

Anyway, just a shout out to Ernst Nathorst-Böös and to let him know he has not been forgotten.

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Aosta
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Post 20 Nov 2020

Some of us still call him daddy :puf_bigsmile:

Nothing can ever be taken away from what he (and others) created all those years ago.

I am forever grateful he had the vision to create the greatest audio playground ever.

Thanks dad :thumbs_up:

Image
Tend the flame

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mcatalao
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Post 20 Nov 2020

scotward57 wrote:
19 Nov 2020
I realized that the music being produced by today's Reason users hasn't really improved all that much, if at all, since the glory days of the first version of Reason. Why is that?
First I don't agree with your statement. I think music made with reason has improved on lots of levels and production wize reason introduced amazing stuff from year to year (combinator, thor, amazing refills and the stuff you mentioned Res, vsts but above all audio recording were of paramount importance for me).

What you need to remember is that music is one thing and sound is another. And musically you can achieve transcendency with just a guitar or a piano. So while productionwhise there has been an amazing evolution in reason the core users are limited by their ideas.

You really need to check stuff from people that stays away from the common genres from reason users (RnB, hip hop, edm). Sure people can still do great stuff within those genres. But you really need to clean your ears and check out a broader pallete of music and sound that reason allows today and didn't at that time.

One thing I'm certain. It was an amazing piece of software in 2000 and it still is after 20 years.
Last edited by mcatalao on 20 Nov 2020, edited 1 time in total.

madmacman
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 20 Nov 2020

Uhh, this kind of blind loyalty always worries me. Same is true for musicians, or sports clubs. No doubt - Reason is a fine piece of software and has been grown over the years. But sometimes the close relationship of die-hard Reason users with the company behind is frightening. Never saw this with Karl Steinberg (Cubase), Gerhard Lengeling (Logic), Gerhard Behles (Ableton), or Matthias Juwan (Studio One).

DecafDreams
Posts: 26
Joined: 07 Oct 2020

Post 20 Nov 2020

mcatalao wrote:
20 Nov 2020
scotward57 wrote:
19 Nov 2020
I realized that the music being produced by today's Reason users hasn't really improved all that much, if at all, since the glory days of the first version of Reason. Why is that?
First I don't agree with your statement. I think music made with reason has improved on lots of levels and production wize reason introduced amazing stuff from year to year (combinator, thor, amazing refills and the stuff you mentioned Res, vsts but above all audio recording were of paramount importance for me).
I think you're wrong and if anything the original statement didn't go far enough. I am of the firm belief that a lot of modern prosumer music made not only in Reason but most other DAWs, sounds a lot worse than many of the best prosumer tracks made in the earlier years of DAWs; definitely from a musical point of view but also often from a sound engineering point of view. There's a lot more wannabe amateurs that are into music making these days than there were back in the early noughties; ones who don't even understand the basics of compression, EQ or subtractive synthesis. The music tech industry is huge now and one of the primary reasons for that is it has become very good at helping very casual consumers pretend to be musicians. Helping people buy into the musician lifestyle by allowing them to pretend they're more talented than they really are or that the secret to their success is going to be just one more plug-in purchase. In someways it's not dissimilar to Instagram filters allowing people to pretend they're more beautiful than they really are.

However, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying -your- music hasn't improved since earlier versions of Reason! :) What I am saying is that the overall feeling I get with the vast majority of modern DAW users, and the tracks I hear they've composed and produced, is that they often have all the gear, but no idea.

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mcatalao
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Post 20 Nov 2020

DecafDreams wrote:
20 Nov 2020


I think you're wrong and if anything the original statement didn't go far enough. I am of the firm belief that a lot of modern prosumer music made not only in Reason but most other DAWs, sounds a lot worse than many of the best prosumer tracks made in the earlier years of DAWs;
That's something that is happening independent of DAW's.
So get away from freaking "standard" shit and open your ears to other stuff (audio recorded stuff, instrumental, new age, jazzy, etc).

Cheers.

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esselfortium
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Post 20 Nov 2020

scotward57 wrote:
19 Nov 2020
But Ernst made you work hard back then and it really paid off for many of you.
I'm pretty sure the goal was always to make it easy and enjoyable, otherwise why? What would be the selling point for "we're making music creation more difficult on purpose"? :lol:

I started with Reason 2.5 because it was so much more fun, powerful, and easy to compose with than the other tools I had available to me at the time.

DaveyG
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Post 20 Nov 2020

scotward57 wrote:
19 Nov 2020
Some of us would like to know what ever happened to him.
I assumed he was still counting the money.

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QVprod
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Post 20 Nov 2020

scotward57 wrote:
19 Nov 2020
It's been a while since he's been gone. Some of us would like to know what ever happened to him. I kind of felt sorry for him. He oversaw the most beautiful music production software program ever invented and for a long time he fought off the mob of crybabies calling for audio recording, MIDI out, VSTs, etc.

And I downloaded the Reason 20 goodies folder and listened to the demos. I realized that the music being produced by today's Reason users hasn't really improved all that much, if at all, since the glory days of the first version of Reason. Why is that?

It could be that the vision of Ernst Nathorst-Böös was complete and didn't really need much of the fluff that followed. Oh I guess some devices sound "better" just from scrolling from presets. But Ernst made you work hard back then and it really paid off for many of you.

Anyway, just a shout out to Ernst Nathorst-Böös and to let him know he has not been forgotten.
I think we need to make a separation between liking art and the tool made to use it. To say that music created with Reason hasn’t improved is a bit of an insult to the various creators around the world. No offense intended, but comments like these (they’re not that uncommon) seem to reflect projection of how one feels about their own music in Reason.

As far as feeling sorry for Ernst, not at all. He stepped down as CEO of a company that is currently celebrating it’s 20th anniversary. He’s still an owner.

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selig
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Post 20 Nov 2020

esselfortium wrote:
20 Nov 2020
scotward57 wrote:
19 Nov 2020
But Ernst made you work hard back then and it really paid off for many of you.
I'm pretty sure the goal was always to make it easy and enjoyable, otherwise why? What would be the selling point for "we're making music creation more difficult on purpose"? :lol:

I started with Reason 2.5 because it was so much more fun, powerful, and easy to compose with than the other tools I had available to me at the time.
Same here - Reason always was so much easier and far more fun than the other options I had used - and I’d used a few over the 20 years before I found Reason (@v2.0/2.5 in 2003). Plus, all the same tools from v1.0 are still available in Reason today, so if you liked working the “v1.0 way” you can still pretty much do it today!
There are plenty of companies with “famous” leaders over the years, from Moog (Bob Moog) to Apple (Steve Jobs) to McDSP (Colin McDowell) to SSL (Colon Sanders), Leo Fender, Tom Oberheim, Sequential Circuits (Dave Smith), Roger Linn, plus countless Eurorack “rock stars” if you follow that world, and so on...
Selig Audio, LLC

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mcatalao
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Post 20 Nov 2020

DecafDreams wrote:
20 Nov 2020

(...)
There's a lot more wannabe amateurs that are into music making these days than there were back in the early noughties; ones who don't even understand the basics of compression, EQ or subtractive synthesis. The music tech industry is huge now and one of the primary reasons for that is it has become very good at helping very casual consumers pretend to be musicians.
(...)
TBH, this is where disagree. Music is dull today not because the wannabe doesn't know compression, eq or synthesis. Music today is dull because of too simple melodies, 2 chord harmonies and the beat to death 4/4 rhythm. You would be amazed the amount of songs which don't have any melody on it or at least the complexity and natural originality completely gone.

Even if you don't master an instrument, it's more important to be a composer, singer, songwriter, etc before and then master any part of a daw or every function of a synth or knowing to compress, EQ, gate and so on.

So what i mean is that there's a big lack of musicianship in music today. When i started working with computer music, i already played piano for 10 years, i played some win instruments, i had a good grasp of music theory, and i composed on paper for at least 5 years. I also had a good grasp of midi, sequencing (at the time with a roland composer sequencer and some synths), and by my twenties I was playing in 3 different music projects.

I've always said, you'll get more pleasure from a good song on a crappy guitar and a bad recording, than a super well produced fart.

Reason (or any other DAW) is a tool for musicianship. No musicianship no music. That's it.

But as i said befor. Steer your ears away from crap and there's a lot of good music (some in reason) out there.

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mcatalao
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Post 20 Nov 2020

selig wrote:
20 Nov 2020

Same here - Reason always was so much easier and far more fun than the other options I had used - and I’d used a few over the 20 years before I found Reason (@v2.0/2.5 in 2003). Plus, all the same tools from v1.0 are still available in Reason today, so if you liked working the “v1.0 way” you can still pretty much do it today!
Yeah I also started with 2.5 adapted, then bought R3 in 2005 i think, very near the R4 release, and upgraded every version from there!

DecafDreams
Posts: 26
Joined: 07 Oct 2020

Post 20 Nov 2020

I think it's less a reflection of the quality of output from the Reason community on average but more part of a wider problem with wannabe musicians saturating the internet with all their output nowadays anyway. The tools have got better but the sound engineering techniques and especially the musicianship have got worse on average I think; there's a distinct lack of knowledge of the fundamentals in both disciplines. I think it's a shame that DAWs don't really come with demo tracks anymore. They were a real thing back in the day and a great way to take a peak behind the curtain at how real experts used the software to create real professional sounding results (which included the art of arrangement, melody composition and other crucial aspects to creating decent tracks).
Last edited by DecafDreams on 20 Nov 2020, edited 1 time in total.

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 1940
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Post 20 Nov 2020

scotward57 wrote:
19 Nov 2020
It's been a while since he's been gone. Some of us would like to know what ever happened to him. I kind of felt sorry for him. He oversaw the most beautiful music production software program ever invented and for a long time he fought off the mob of crybabies calling for audio recording, MIDI out, VSTs, etc.

And I downloaded the Reason 20 goodies folder and listened to the demos. I realized that the music being produced by today's Reason users hasn't really improved all that much, if at all, since the glory days of the first version of Reason. Why is that?

It could be that the vision of Ernst Nathorst-Böös was complete and didn't really need much of the fluff that followed. Oh I guess some devices sound "better" just from scrolling from presets. But Ernst made you work hard back then and it really paid off for many of you.

Anyway, just a shout out to Ernst Nathorst-Böös and to let him know he has not been forgotten.
Do you believe Reason users dominate the DAW and music producing industry? Because if they are not, who's producing all that shit music, and on what DAW :puf_smile:

20, 50 years ago people were making shit music too, but It was prohibitively costly to push it to the public. Now we are but a click away from uploading our latest masterpiss to Hallioopa, or to any of our favorite shit music sharing community :cool:

We listen to talented homeless people in the street, but we think twice before giving away a quarter or two, while we don't mind listening to shit music on our uniquely curated Spotify shit list an algorithm was trained to help us love and "discover".

Image

What you are describing is beyond Reason, or any other DAW. It's a much bigger picture.
Criticism of its development's speed is fine, imho :puf_smile:

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motuscott
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Post 20 Nov 2020

Still he is a rather handsome fellow
Vlad the thread stopper 🧂

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 1940
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Post 20 Nov 2020

Sources familiar with the matter (the same predicting the death of Reason for 20 years) say that picture was taken the day after Reason 1.0 was released.

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motuscott
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Post 20 Nov 2020

Dude aged well, what can I say?
Vlad the thread stopper 🧂

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motuscott
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Post 20 Nov 2020

Could be the haggis
Wait, that's Swedish right?
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antic604
Posts: 333
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Post 20 Nov 2020

motuscott wrote:
20 Nov 2020
Could be the haggis
Wait, that's Swedish right?
I think Irish, or Welsh.

EDIT: turn's out it's Scottish :D
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Jackjackdaw
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Post 20 Nov 2020

I got a like from him on Twitter for this tweet posted 8th June. :lol:



Made my day. Like a seal of approval from God.

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Boombastix
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Post 20 Nov 2020

antic604 wrote:
20 Nov 2020
motuscott wrote:
20 Nov 2020
Could be the haggis
Wait, that's Swedish right?
I think Irish, or Welsh.

EDIT: turn's out it's Scottish :D
Historians have quite well established that Haggis came to Scotland with the Vikings, so yeah it has Scandinavian or Swedish origin. You can still buy that stuff in Swedish grocery stores, just as your can get Haggis in Scotland.

The reason many of us eat ham at Christmas is also due to a Viking tradition. Just some fun facts...
10% off at Waves with link: https://www.waves.com/r/6gh2b0
Disclaimer - I get 10% as well.

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motuscott
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Post 20 Nov 2020

This year mostly humble pie
Southern US peckerwood tradition
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miscend
Posts: 1631
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Post 20 Nov 2020

The new CEO has kept a low profile.

scotward57
Posts: 20
Joined: 28 Jul 2019

Post 20 Nov 2020

Thanks for your opinion everybody. Glad to hear Lord Ernst still owns the company. I just miss his hands-on leadership. I imagine once upon a time during staff meetings he carried around a big VETO branding iron and used it with employees creating new devices behind his back.

As far as music goes, I know many of you disagree about what makes good music. I say to that: go listen to the Beatles. What lessons can you learn? First, try not to use these so called modern music production techniques as a means to impress anybody. Side-chain compression, wobble effects, trap drums, 808 this and that...if you are relying on that to create music, then it's time sell your Reason license.

Try mixing in mono and panning all tracks on one side or the other. And there is no "reason" to have more than 8 tracks. 4 is even better.

And when it comes to drums, whenever I hear modern tracks with compressed drums with effects and spread across the stereo spectrum, fake hi hat note repeat effects, kicks and snares down the middle...that's no way to treat the drums. Drummers need to know their place. Pan all of their tracks hard left or hard right. A listener should be able to experience that feeling of "oh there's the drummer in their rightful place". Drummers who know their place play their with a certain urgency and energy and that's the sound everyone should be after.

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QVprod
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Post 21 Nov 2020

scotward57 wrote:
20 Nov 2020
Thanks for your opinion everybody. Glad to hear Lord Ernst still owns the company. I just miss his hands-on leadership. I imagine once upon a time during staff meetings he carried around a big VETO branding iron and used it with employees creating new devices behind his back.

As far as music goes, I know many of you disagree about what makes good music. I say to that: go listen to the Beatles. What lessons can you learn? First, try not to use these so called modern music production techniques as a means to impress anybody. Side-chain compression, wobble effects, trap drums, 808 this and that...if you are relying on that to create music, then it's time sell your Reason license.

Try mixing in mono and panning all tracks on one side or the other. And there is no "reason" to have more than 8 tracks. 4 is even better.

And when it comes to drums, whenever I hear modern tracks with compressed drums with effects and spread across the stereo spectrum, fake hi hat note repeat effects, kicks and snares down the middle...that's no way to treat the drums. Drummers need to know their place. Pan all of their tracks hard left or hard right. A listener should be able to experience that feeling of "oh there's the drummer in their rightful place". Drummers who know their place play their with a certain urgency and energy and that's the sound everyone should be after.
:lol:

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