Why are the reason users a minority?

[selig]

There’s a misunderstanding here…

Apologies Quincy, I was trying a little too hard to be "cute" with my comments. We're on the same page!

[QVprod]

There’s a misunderstanding here…

Apologies Quincy, I was trying a little too hard to be "cute" with my comments. We're on the same page!

All good!

[scotward57]

This year I joined the lost list of Reason users who wandered off to some other DAW utopia only to discover I already have what I need in Reason. I bought Logic Pro 10.5 because of the new shiny toys (Live Loops, the step sequencer) and having a score editor. I spent months slugging through the deep learning curve and trying to get used to using RRP and the Logic way of doing things.

But I absolutely hated having to keep an eye on CPU resources (track freezing, bouncing to audio). I took for granted that I can load dozens and dozens of Reason devices and my computer not breaking a sweat.

The other thing is that hardware rack vibe. I need that feel and vibe to get me in the creative mood.

So now what I do is use Logic to make samples/loops that I can import into Reason. Works for me.

[mcatalao]

I really don't care about the amount of reason users.
IMHO, I need reason to be around for as much time as possible. I don't want something like Cakewalk to be happening to Reason but for me, as long as there is enough traction you guys might as well be bots here, and I am the only Reason user in the world, so as long as it keeps evolving and adding stuff I need, I'm fine!

Kidding aside... The amount of users using Reason is of paramount importance to Reason Studios, and to us.
I don't know if market share is something you can measure in a tool that is normally not exclusive, like for example studying market share for some medicine where most times someone who takes a given brand doesn't take another. So on DAW's, as most users are not like myself who rarely opens other DAW than reason, Market Share is an impossible task, IMHO. What I think for a fact is that users like me, who use Reason as their single daw, are a minority, but probably a majority of the users on the forums and Facebook.

Meantime, great things have happened in the last years, and TBH, when I have things to say I try to keep it low because for the things Reason doesn't have against what it has, I have been able to live without them in the past since Record was around. If you think about the latest decade, reason went from an electronic music making tool (a big instrument with a sequencer built in) to a full-fledged daw in 2 years. Remember the path: Reason 4 was an instrument that you most probably would put inside another app, reason 6.5 was a DAW with plugins and audio, a glorified mixer that people seem to hate today and a complete tool to make music.

If you asked me what things I am missing more in Reason today here are the things I usually ask when I have the opportunity to be heard in the order of my needs:

- Auto Punch in
- Track Folders
- Track Freezing
- A bigger better combinator with at least 8 knobs and 8 buttons or more with panels (apply this to the mixer channel insert Section)
- Channel Folders
- Channel patch creation and loading
- Better handling of mixer positioning
- VST3

Now let me list from that list the things that impede me from making music:

- ...

This is the state of Reason today. It doesn't lack a core functionality that impedes you from making music. All the things I listed there, allow you a better workflow, an easy (smarter) way to do something, some benefit on your workflow, or a technology that is still not industry standard despite being around for 10 years.

From those, the feature I miss the most is Auto Punch In and I mostly miss it when I'm recording myself and because recording with auto punch in allows me to work my performance a lot better, with good monitoring management, and non-obtrusive hits when I want to be focused on the performance. It's almost as if you have an invisible audio engineer, hitting the record button at the right position and even Comping 1000 takes can't compensate for that. You want to know how songs were sounding tuned 30 years ago when we didn't have autotune? Auto Punch in is your answer.


But still...

4 years ago I couldn't use my East West instruments in reason because we didn't have VST's.
5 years ago we didn't have midi out!
10 years ago we didn't have any sort of additional instruments, and before no Audio recording. And please a DAW without audio recording is not a DAW. Reason only starts competing with a DAW when Record comes out and needing and additional application was not beneficial to Reason.

Reason (imho Reason Stand Alone is an odd name to give, Reason is Reason, and the other thing is only the Reason Rack), has a big advantage against other DAWS. And that is the fact that having out some less important features, the things that you need EVERY DAY, are at the front of your eyes and at the tip of your fingers. With the new RRP i tried Cubase and Reaper, and even coming from Cubase 10 years ago, and using Reaper now and then for live recording, when I open these apps, I feel lost. The amount of things you have to tweak just to have a project as you like is Huge, and things that are direct and easy in Reason, are hidden in a pile of menus, multi tiered mouse context boxes and windows that steal your precious monitor space. This decluttered way, is what helps me being more creative with Reason than with any other DAW. This already happened when I used reason with Cubase. Most my song development was done in Reason and i rarely sequenced instruments in Cubase and even ended making more music in reason only that with my far better instruments in cubase, and cubase was just an expensive audio recorder and mixer. So the midi editors in Reason, might seem a bit old in aspect, but they are not uglier than reaper's and i work with them faster than in any other daw I've tried.

So I don't know if this helps in any form, but people use this kind of threads to rant a bit, so why not?
But my opinion about the initial thread subject is this, more important than talking about market share, or minorities and so on, what I really would like to see answered this kind of things:

- Are there more (or less) active users using reason today than 10 years ago? And by active I mean buying any of the different things you can buy today. May it be a reason update, or a RE.
- From the active users who is upgrading.
- And what is the amount of new users (so you can see the effectiveness of the marketing).

What I mean is that the differential is more important than compare to others, or thinking about minorities.
IMHO of course.

[DougalDarkly]

Just cos I think it's funny - here's an article where 2 of the 7 producers interviewed use Reason - a pretty healthy ratio I'd say

https://www.musicngear.com/blog/getting ... ng-artists

[chaosroyale]

Yeah, what this guy said.
That was much more balanced than my grumpy rants. You summed things up much better than I did.

...a long post that is worth reading/

[mcatalao]

Yeah, what this guy said.
That was much more balanced than my grumpy rants. You summed things up much better than I did.

...a long post that is worth reading/

haha

Thanks for that.
If you see my points are more in line with Reason as a DAW. My rant is that RRP is a great opportunity to get more money in, put people looking at reason again, and get people on board, may them use another daw or try reason instead.

But if the DAW doesn't compete with the other daws, the path towards the Daw will not be made. Maybe this is not in RS's idea to pull RRP users toward the reason DAW and in fact they probably don't need them to. But what will make them stay? New devices in Reason, like the amazing friktion, that's great but what about the DAW? I just don't want them to loose traction on the daw development because there is still a lot to do.

My point with the DAW is also that even as it is the workflow with the complete daw (considering you use the effects in reason) against other daws with RRP is 10x faster and so more direct, than on those daws. On so many aspects starting at modulation of mixer parameter, ending on integration of all the kinds of devices between the rack, mixer and sequencer. Just look at Reaper automation with RRP and see the mess that is! Sorry can't deal with learning that with a client asking me for a mix in 2 or 3 days.

I don't have any problem when people call me a Fanboy, because, well i am. But on the other hand i try to be as much objective as possible. I know we are almost at a point that there will be functionally and technically nothing that RRP will need to be a complete product and at that point I'm looking forward to see the DAW evolving to what we want it to be.

[mcatalao]

PS.: And i can't believe there aren't more people needing/wanting freaking Auto punch in!

[motuscott]

Just because I'm not moanin and groanin every datasecond doesn't mean I don't halfway misunderstand and agree with what I think you might be misstating
Give us autopunch and we will rule the world

[motuscott]

HaHa
Don't hold me to it
I am the Lindsey Graham of ReasonTalk

[EnochLight]

PS.: And i can't believe there aren't more people needing/wanting freaking Auto punch in!

+1!

Count me in - I think proper audio punch-in is long overdue!

[guitfnky]

PS.: And i can't believe there aren't more people needing/wanting freaking Auto punch in!

you are not alone.

this, markers, and track folders...super-basic stuff (even if track folders are a comparatively recent addition to the list of standard DAW features). it boggles the mind that they're still not there.

I really think you hit the nail on the head with that post, btw. especially keeping in perspective that Reason has only been a DAW for around 10 years or so now, since Reason+Record came out. it really has come a hell of a long way since then.

but still, auto-punch, markers, and track folders...coooooooommeee onnnnnnn, pleeeaaassseee!