Why are the reason users a minority?

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
exxx
Posts: 113
Joined: 12 Sep 2016

Post 14 Oct 2020

Let us tell this story.

Why are the reason users a minority?

There are so many daws, why can't I see any signs of increase?

Why don't modern YouTubers use reason?

Billy
Posts: 439
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 14 Oct 2020

We're not a minority, we just spend our time making music rather than sh*t pooTube videos, honing a skills set rather than over hyping a channel in the hope we get millions of followers for a share of some pants advertising stream.

:lol:
:ignition: :reason: :refill: :re: :rebirth: :PUF_figure: :nektar: :mac: :EiEPro: :Alesis Mk2:

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BRIGGS
Posts: 971
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 14 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
14 Oct 2020
We're not a minority, we just spend our time making music rather than sh*t pooTube videos, honing a skills set rather than over hyping a channel in the hope we get millions of followers for a share of some pants advertising stream.

:lol:
:lol: too funny!!!

Billy
Posts: 439
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 14 Oct 2020

I was being serious
:ignition: :reason: :refill: :re: :rebirth: :PUF_figure: :nektar: :mac: :EiEPro: :Alesis Mk2:

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BRIGGS
Posts: 971
Joined: 25 Sep 2015
Location: Orange County California

Post 14 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
14 Oct 2020
I was being serious
Image

Billy
Posts: 439
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 14 Oct 2020

Hahaha. Bazinga
:ignition: :reason: :refill: :re: :rebirth: :PUF_figure: :nektar: :mac: :EiEPro: :Alesis Mk2:

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MrFigg
Posts: 5335
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 14 Oct 2020

Hahaha. You guys!!!
丰2ॐ

TritoneAddiction
Posts: 2608
Joined: 29 Aug 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 14 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
14 Oct 2020
We're not a minority, we just spend our time making music rather than sh*t pooTube videos, honing a skills set rather than over hyping a channel in the hope we get millions of followers for a share of some pants advertising stream.

:lol:
Reason users making music? Honing our skills? Come on man. We both know us Reason users are way too busy bitching about feature requests to have any time for making music. :lol: :lol: :lol: Writing down feature requests, that's our biggest strength.

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nooomy
Posts: 456
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 14 Oct 2020

exxx wrote:
14 Oct 2020
Let us tell this story.

Why are the reason users a minority?

There are so many daws, why can't I see any signs of increase?

Why don't modern YouTubers use reason?
Because the latest version on piratebay i reason 5.

A good way to start producing is by using pirated software. Alot of teenagers can't afford to pay 300 euros and rather pirate FL-studios or ableton for free.

Reason was more popular of youtube when the latest version was pirated. I started with a pirated reason 4 version when i was 18 years old.

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miscend
Posts: 1596
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

Post 14 Oct 2020

You dont see many Cubase users either on Youtube. Logic, Reaper, Ableton and FL Studio are all highly pirated.

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motuscott
Posts: 2050
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: the New York

Post 14 Oct 2020

TritoneAddiction wrote:
14 Oct 2020
Reason users making music? Honing our skills? Come on man. We both know us Reason users are way too busy bitching about feature requests to have any time for making music. :lol: :lol: :lol: Writing down feature requests, that's our biggest strength.
[/quote]

I suspect out absence on UTube is down to lack of track folders.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Vlad the thread stopper 🧂

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Aosta
Posts: 419
Joined: 26 Jun 2017

Post 14 Oct 2020

We are all too busy plugging virtual cables into things we shouldn't to make youtube videos :D
Tend the flame

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ShelLuser
Posts: 294
Joined: 25 Aug 2019

Post 14 Oct 2020

My take?

At the risk of sounding disrespectful (not my intention) but I believe that a lot of users out there are drones. Meaning: they don't look for specific items which might really help enhance their setup based on the specifications but instead they often focus on popularity. If a product is really popular it has to be good, so...

And I come to that conclusion based on my own experiences when I first started. A few weeks into Live 8 + Max for Live (which you had to purchase separately back then) I realized the importance of sound engines and how they could influence your material. So I really wanted something more and eventually I ended up with Reason 4, a decision I never regretted.

The fun part though was that many of my fellow Live users (I used to be way more active on the Abes forum at that time) were plain out surprised. Some of my friends had even assumed that I was going to add Komplete to the setup because that's what most Live users tended to do. Not me... sorta. I did grab Elements back then and now, 12 or so years later, I finally added the full deal as well but even so...

Reason is special, but not too many people seem to realize it :?

Heck:
image_2020-10-14_225504.png

So here I have a pretty much "impossible" setup: one instrument rack, incoming MIDI is sent to the Reason Rack yet it's Absynth which generates a sound that's triggered by the Reason players. The trick here being Max for Live: MIDI track 3 contains a simple Max MIDI effect which grabs incoming MIDI and sends it to a receiver. One which happens to sit in another Max MIDI device right in front of Absynth. It's not as easy as dragging a CV cable like in Reason, but it's still very quite easy to set up.

Result should be obvious: the best out of this "power trio" of mine... Reason + Absynth "glued" together using Live & Max for Live. And thanks to Live's "MIDI capture" I don't have to suffer from "recording anxiety"; I just play what I like, and if I think it sounds good I simply grab it and check it out. No pressure to do it "right" because "I'm recording".

Komplete has awesome sounds but nothing like the Reason players, Live is extremely flexible (also thanks to Max for Live) but pulling this off? Not unless I rebuild those players myself (no thanks :mrgreen:). But yah, once you realize the potential here you never want to go back.
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--- :reason:
Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push), Reason Rack Plugin and Maschine (+ the ultimate Komplete 13).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

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plaamook
Posts: 1221
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: probably underwater

Post 14 Oct 2020

nooomy wrote:
14 Oct 2020

A good way to start producing is by using pirated software. Alot of teenagers can't afford to pay 300 euros and rather pirate FL-studios or ableton for free.
Prob true actually.

Bummer too. I don't have one music compadre that uses reason. They're all on Logic.
That said, they all started on logic bck when it was like Reason 1 or 2. Back then they probably just wanted more power.

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guitfnky
Posts: 2592
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 14 Oct 2020

every DAW user is in the minority. there are too many good options out there for any one DAW to capture the majority of the market.

there’s only one DAW that captures a *plurality* of users—it’s not Reason, of course, but there’s a pretty good chance that DAW isn’t on most of our lists as a favorite either.

why isn’t Reason closer to the top though? because there are still too many industry standard quality of life features missing, that are available in every other DAW. I’ve been saying for the last few years that I think they could easily catapult from an also-ran to a real contender for most widely-used DAW, just by finally putting on their big boy/gal pants and catching up.

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sublunar
Posts: 451
Joined: 27 Apr 2017

Post 14 Oct 2020

nooomy wrote:
14 Oct 2020
exxx wrote:
14 Oct 2020
Let us tell this story.

Why are the reason users a minority?

There are so many daws, why can't I see any signs of increase?

Why don't modern YouTubers use reason?
Because the latest version on piratebay i reason 5.

A good way to start producing is by using pirated software. Alot of teenagers can't afford to pay 300 euros and rather pirate FL-studios or ableton for free.

Reason was more popular of youtube when the latest version was pirated. I started with a pirated reason 4 version when i was 18 years old.
This is without a doubt one of the biggest contributing factors IMO. I started out on a pirated copy. When you're young and/or have limited funds, you don't want to spend money on some finicky piece of software that is going to be obsolete a year after you buy it; you spend that money on tangible instruments/devices. Spending money on software can wait until you're older and can afford/justify it.

jlgrimes
Posts: 497
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

Post 14 Oct 2020

miscend wrote:
14 Oct 2020
You dont see many Cubase users either on Youtube. Logic, Reaper, Ableton and FL Studio are all highly pirated.
I wouldn't say all of those are highly pirated.


Reaper maybe, but it is dirt cheap, and the demo is fully usable.

FL Studio does the free upgrades for life

I would think most popular YouTubers are probably using paid versions.



Reason though is not the least popular DAW though. There are plenty of less popular DAWS than Reason. DP, Acid, Mixcraft, Renoise, are probably less popular than Reason. Reason probably falls somewhere in the middle of the pack among popularity.


I'd say the Rack Plugin probably will help give it more ground as Reason can be easily used in any DAW as well.

I'd say though that Reason going years without audio, VSTs kept it out of highly popular pack.

jlgrimes
Posts: 497
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

Post 14 Oct 2020

guitfnky wrote:
14 Oct 2020
every DAW user is in the minority. there are too many good options out there for any one DAW to capture the majority of the market.

there’s only one DAW that captures a *plurality* of users—it’s not Reason, of course, but there’s a pretty good chance that DAW isn’t on most of our lists as a favorite either.

why isn’t Reason closer to the top though? because there are still too many industry standard quality of life features missing, that are available in every other DAW. I’ve been saying for the last few years that I think they could easily catapult from an also-ran to a real contender for most widely-used DAW, just by finally putting on their big boy/gal pants and catching up.
It feels like it though being in any DAW, you feel like you are missing something.

I tried Logic (it isn't that great)

I use Ableton but even it falls short on certain things such as comping, ARA, MPE support.

Reaper has a ton of features but for composing it feels like the Wild West and lacks alot of direction for certain stuff.

I have FL and people love its piano roll but IMO, it is pretty cumbersome and convoluted for me.

Studio One is very well rounded but even it has some weak points stacked against certain programs.

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guitfnky
Posts: 2592
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 15 Oct 2020

jlgrimes wrote:
14 Oct 2020
guitfnky wrote:
14 Oct 2020
every DAW user is in the minority. there are too many good options out there for any one DAW to capture the majority of the market.

there’s only one DAW that captures a *plurality* of users—it’s not Reason, of course, but there’s a pretty good chance that DAW isn’t on most of our lists as a favorite either.

why isn’t Reason closer to the top though? because there are still too many industry standard quality of life features missing, that are available in every other DAW. I’ve been saying for the last few years that I think they could easily catapult from an also-ran to a real contender for most widely-used DAW, just by finally putting on their big boy/gal pants and catching up.
It feels like it though being in any DAW, you feel like you are missing something.

I tried Logic (it isn't that great)

I use Ableton but even it falls short on certain things such as comping, ARA, MPE support.

Reaper has a ton of features but for composing it feels like the Wild West and lacks alot of direction for certain stuff.

I have FL and people love its piano roll but IMO, it is pretty cumbersome and convoluted for me.

Studio One is very well rounded but even it has some weak points stacked against certain programs.
totally agree, and it’s why I think Reason is in a unique position to make themselves a stand-out pro-level competitor in the DAW world.

all of the DAWs you mention (I’ve tried most) have the sort of best practice, industry-standard features I’m talking about—markers, auto-punch, track folders, etc, but most of them feel very bloated and unintuitive. Reason, on the other hand, is at the (far) other end of the spectrum—most of what is there is very intuitive, and not hidden behind confusing layers of abstraction or endless menu options, and it’s obviously feature-light by comparison. I think if they were to simply list the core features that most of these other DAWs had, circa 10-15 years ago, and add those, they’d have a list of maybe 20-30 small, but important quality-of-life improvements that would make Reason competitive in terms of basic functionality, without changing the fundamental ease of use, or making it feel bloated and difficult to use.

I mean think of it...if you use another DAW now with the RRP because it offers some of the features Reason lacks natively, but don’t find it particularly inspiring, wouldn’t you take a hard look at Reason if they finally filled some of the gaps? and for those just starting out, how much more comforting would it be to know that you can grab Reason, learn it fairly quickly, AND that it’s on par with the other major players, so you won’t have to think about switching to something else later on if you outgrow the current (too-)bare-bones feature set?

just seems like such a no-brainer to me. all the instruments, effects, and inspiration of Reason with all the same basic features as every other DAW should be a super-easy sell.

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antic604
Posts: 209
Joined: 02 Apr 2020

Post 15 Oct 2020

ShelLuser wrote:
14 Oct 2020
So here I have a pretty much "impossible" setup: one instrument rack, incoming MIDI is sent to the Reason Rack yet it's Absynth which generates a sound that's triggered by the Reason players. The trick here being Max for Live: MIDI track 3 contains a simple Max MIDI effect which grabs incoming MIDI and sends it to a receiver. One which happens to sit in another Max MIDI device right in front of Absynth. It's not as easy as dragging a CV cable like in Reason, but it's still very quite easy to set up.

Result should be obvious: the best out of this "power trio" of mine... Reason + Absynth "glued" together using Live & Max for Live. And thanks to Live's "MIDI capture" I don't have to suffer from "recording anxiety"; I just play what I like, and if I think it sounds good I simply grab it and check it out. No pressure to do it "right" because "I'm recording".
You know you can do it without any M4L devices, right? Just have Rack VST on one track generating MIDI from live input or clips and receive that MIDI on another track where Absynth sits.

I don't know what's "impossible" in this setup. That was the whole point of MIDI Out device added in 11.1 :)

Oh, and in Bitwig you can do this on single track without workarounds like this, because it does not expect a set order of devices, like Live does. Just saying :)
MPC One // A4 Mk1 // OT Mk1 + Bitwig 3 // Reason 11 // Studio One 5 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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Rising Night Wave
Posts: 191
Joined: 03 Sep 2019
Location: Vransko, Slovenia

Post 15 Oct 2020

i shall take an advantage of an opportunity - this thread... to say: i just love reason. reason is so intuitive program that i started to use it immediately when i came accross to it. there is almost no pair to reason program; an exception is, if anybodyk nows: newtek's lightwave program for 3D modeling and rendering - this program is also so intuitive and simple to use and is also in minority. for instance: photoshop: no words, no comment. it is standard in photo editing scene but it is so lame and ugly program. to not say anything about windows os program. omg. no words and no comment. it is so complicated that they even after 30 years haven't solved it out.

reason si so simple to use and so beautiful program.

philosophicaly said: perhaps is reason in minorty because stupid people just do stupid things. :lol:
Rising Night Wave @ SoundCloud
HW: Asus ROG Strix GL753VD | M-Audio M3-8 | M-Audio Uber Mic | Shure SRH1840 | Shure SE215 | LG 49UK6400
SW: Win10Home64 | Propellerhead Reason 10

Simontho
Posts: 10
Joined: 24 Dec 2016

Post 15 Oct 2020

I’ve been using reason since v3 and I can’t imagine switching to anything else. In the past few months i’ve been bitten by the eurorack bug and have spent some time exploring the online community. It’s been interesting to find a number of the more prominent eurorack YouTube accounts (divkid, molten modular) got their start with reason. Seems like that isn’t uncommon for folks In that world. This to me is one of most unique and little-talked-about benefits of learning through reason. One builds mental models and ways of thinking that more easily translate to modular or other types of hardware. It doesn’t seem like reason studios plan on making any more forays into hardware anytime soon, (RIP Balance) but imo an exert-sleepers-style reason product to act as an interface between reason and cv-enabled hardware would go a long way in differentiating reason and highlighting the types of things that make it special.

sdst
Posts: 759
Joined: 14 Jun 2015

Post 15 Oct 2020

because the software doesn't matter

music is what matters

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miyaru
Posts: 129
Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Location: Zaanstad, The Netherlands

Post 15 Oct 2020

I started using Reason at version 4, but could not find myself into it. Used Cubase too at that time. After I stopped using Cubase some three and a half years ago, I switched to Ableton Live Suite/Push2. Last November I found out how beautifull Reason 11 is, and bought it right away (the Suite version). Nowadays I use Reason more then Ableton Live Suite. I love the way the flow is, and every DAW has it's quircks......

It is also more friendly in terms of CPU consumption, and it seems to go more fluid to me, Ableton with Max4Life is powerfull, but you have to know your way around, which seems easier with Reason. The ability to use them both is super in the end, and that is what I do!
Greetings from Miyaru.
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd gen, Reason Suite 11, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Korg R3, NI Massive, Rob Papen's Predator 2, Sonarworks Reference 4 and Scaler.

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bxbrkrz
Posts: 1887
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 15 Oct 2020

Reason is Bliss. Once you pass the threshold, beyond the noise of self-oscillating doubts, everything is :lightbulb: :ugeek: :lightbulb:
Some people buy the tools they need, then they are happy. Others try to fill an infinite void.
If you are worried about the software you are using because you believe the company's future is uncertain, it is time to invest in good old hardware. No server downtime for license verification from a dead company.

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