Tape Wobble

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Billy
Posts: 439
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 13 Oct 2020

So I'm looking at Softube's Tape vst as I'm after trying to get some tape style pitch drift only I would much rather have a stock solution and the only device that comes to mind is Echo and it's Wobble knob.

My questions are

1) How well does this compare.
2) Should I just buy yet another vst.
3) Do you have a better option.

Remember I'm only after the pitch effect not the noise or saturation.

Thanks Selig, your a star.

Check out this post viewtopic.php?p=522090#p522090 for two cmb patches from Selig Audio... :thumbs_up:
Last edited by Billy on 16 Oct 2020, edited 2 times in total.
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MrFigg
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
13 Oct 2020
So I'm looking at Softube's Tape vst as I'm after trying to get some tape style pitch drift only I would much rather have a stock solution and the only device that comes to mind is Echo and it's Wobble knob.

My questions are

1) How well does this compare.
2) Should I just buy yet another vst.
3) Do you have a better option.

Remember I'm only after the pitch effect not the noise or saturation.
Google free tape VST and don’t give Softube a penny.
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Billy
Posts: 439
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Post 13 Oct 2020

MrFigg wrote:
13 Oct 2020

Google free tape VST and don’t give Softube a penny.
Oh Mr Figg, your a harsh man, I accept the response but it doesn't answer any of the questions asked. :lol:
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MrFigg
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
13 Oct 2020
MrFigg wrote:
13 Oct 2020

Google free tape VST and don’t give Softube a penny.
Oh Mr Figg, your a harsh man, I accept the response but it doesn't answer any of the questions asked. :lol:
https://www.caelumaudio.com/CaelumAudio ... peCassette

Here's a simple one with wow and flutter :)

Edit: Oops...sorry, just checked and it's VST3. There are literally loads out there though. Promise you :)
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Billy
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Post 13 Oct 2020

MrFigg wrote:
13 Oct 2020

https://www.caelumaudio.com/CaelumAudio ... peCassette

Here's a simple one with wow and flutter :)
Very interesting, But it's AU & VST3 only so not going to work in Reason 11.

The v2 version has auto gain which is a very handy feature
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Loque
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Use The Echo "Wobble" or "Modulation".
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MrFigg
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
13 Oct 2020
MrFigg wrote:
13 Oct 2020

https://www.caelumaudio.com/CaelumAudio ... peCassette

Here's a simple one with wow and flutter :)
Very interesting, But it's AU & VST3 only so not going to work in Reason 11.

The v2 version has auto gain which is a very handy feature
Yeah...see above. I didn't realise until I downloaded it myself to check. But do what Loque says. S'what I usually do :)
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Billy
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Post 13 Oct 2020

So The Echo will produce the back and forth tape style drift then, I just need to find a good setting or will I have to modulate the Wobble knob?
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Billy
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Post 13 Oct 2020

I found an open source physical modelled tape machine,

https://github.com/jatinchowdhury18/AnalogTapeModel

based on the Sony TC-260.
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esselfortium
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Post 13 Oct 2020

My preferred method is to put two CF-101 Chorus/Flangers in a combinator. Route them both in mono, one to the left channel and one to the right. Click the button that puts them in Send mode, so that only the modulated signal comes through and not the dry signal. Then you can either use their simple internal LFO or route an external one from Pulsar or elsewhere. Rather than giving you a chorus effect, this will give you a very short delay that you can modulate, and that modulation creates a subtle pitch drift.

Billy
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Post 13 Oct 2020

esselfortium wrote:
13 Oct 2020
My preferred method is to put two CF-101 Chorus/Flangers in a combinator. Route them both in mono, one to the left channel and one to the right. Click the button that puts them in Send mode, so that only the modulated signal comes through and not the dry signal. Then you can either use their simple internal LFO or route an external one from Pulsar or elsewhere. Rather than giving you a chorus effect, this will give you a very short delay that you can modulate, and that modulation creates a subtle pitch drift.
Thanks for the suggestion, sounds like it could be worth a try. :thumbs_up:
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guitfnky
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
13 Oct 2020
So The Echo will produce the back and forth tape style drift then, I just need to find a good setting or will I have to modulate the Wobble knob?
you shouldn’t need to modulate the knob, just set it where you like.

one of my favorite uses for The Echo.

there are plenty of other solutions of course. I don’t have any experience with the Softube tape emulation, but Wavesfactory’s Cassette will do it (you can turn off all the tape emulation/saturation stuff), and U-He’s Satin does a great job of it too. I tried Klevgrand’s version of the cassette thing, but it wasn’t random enough for me, and I have XLN’s RC-20, which does a decent job, though with all those options, I still think I prefer The Echo most.

Billy
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Thanks I'm going to try The Echo Wobble knob & esselfortium's CF-101 example for sure, but anyone with stock suggestions should add them.

Also the U-he tape machine mentioned looks awesome but expensive, given an unlimited budget I think that would be the way to go.
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MrFigg
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
13 Oct 2020
I found an open source physical modelled tape machine,

https://github.com/jatinchowdhury18/AnalogTapeModel

based on the Sony TC-260.
That’s one of the ones I was thinking of. I had it installed for a while and liked it.
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DougalDarkly
Posts: 137
Joined: 31 Jul 2019

Post 13 Oct 2020

As usual, Reason has more than one way to get this type of effect - here are a couple of practical examples from Youtube - the first is easiest and most direct using The Echo, the second one uses Subtractor to make a wobbly patch, rather than processing an existing sound, very interesting though:




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Boombastix
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
13 Oct 2020
Thanks I'm going to try The Echo Wobble knob & esselfortium's CF-101 example for sure, but anyone with stock suggestions should add them.

Also the U-he tape machine mentioned looks awesome but expensive, given an unlimited budget I think that would be the way to go.
You can also add run the LFO Tool in random and connect it to the Delay Time knob, to get more random artifacts. It creates small pitch jumps.
Just keep in mind with The Echo in 100% Wet, it will not do any delay compensation, so you need to bounce to audio and then slide the audio back into time.

A Flanger on 100% Wet can also get pretty crazy Some people just use a very fast and deep chorus.
They all sound different, but still part of the "Lo-Fi" sound character.
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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 13 Oct 2020

MrFigg wrote:
13 Oct 2020
Billy wrote:
13 Oct 2020
So I'm looking at Softube's Tape vst as I'm after trying to get some tape style pitch drift only I would much rather have a stock solution and the only device that comes to mind is Echo and it's Wobble knob.

My questions are

1) How well does this compare.
2) Should I just buy yet another vst.
3) Do you have a better option.

Remember I'm only after the pitch effect not the noise or saturation.
Google free tape VST and don’t give Softube a penny.
You sound like you've a grudge? :D
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Billy
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Post 14 Oct 2020

This example looks sounds like the end result,
DougalDarkly wrote:
13 Oct 2020
Now can I use the delay comp to make sure I don't have to bounce audio every time?
IMG_2202.JPG
I'm thinking this one,
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Billy
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Post 14 Oct 2020

I assume that using a vst tape emulator would also introduce delays or does delay comp actually offset correctly the entire project?
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guitfnky
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Post 14 Oct 2020

you don’t really have to compensate at all, using The Echo (as long as 1 ms of delay doesn’t bother you). turn off tempo sync and just drop that bad boy down to 1 ms of delay. of course it should be fully wet and the feedback should be turned off.

Billy
Posts: 439
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 14 Oct 2020

guitfnky wrote:
14 Oct 2020
you don’t really have to compensate at all, using The Echo (as long as 1 ms of delay doesn’t bother you). turn off tempo sync and just drop that bad boy down to 1 ms of delay. of course it should be fully wet and the feedback should be turned off.
I'm not sure that rings true, after watching the video you would be introducing a delay when using the delay time knob to control the Wobble duration.

I guess I could find the settings I like, do a quick bounce to audio to find the length and then move the midi back to correct it within the project.
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guitfnky
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Post 14 Oct 2020

Billy wrote:
14 Oct 2020
guitfnky wrote:
14 Oct 2020
you don’t really have to compensate at all, using The Echo (as long as 1 ms of delay doesn’t bother you). turn off tempo sync and just drop that bad boy down to 1 ms of delay. of course it should be fully wet and the feedback should be turned off.
I'm not sure that rings true, after watching the video you would be introducing a delay when using the delay time knob to control the Wobble duration.

I guess I could find the settings I like, do a quick bounce to audio to find the length and then move the midi back to correct it within the project.
I don’t understand—wobble duration?

Billy
Posts: 439
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 14 Oct 2020

If you watch the video that uses The Echo to create the Tape style pitch drifts it explains that the Wobble knob is more like a Wobble depth and the delay time knob is controlling the duration / length of time to cycle the depth.

So you can have a low depth Wobble over a short time.

I guess I'm going to have to fire up the machine and have a play.
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guitfnky
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Post 14 Oct 2020

yeah, always best to try it out yourself. you don't need to change the delay time to get it to still wobble is I guess what I'm getting at. leaving it at 1 ms gives you a pretty nice wobble.

BUT, I did get curious, because I have suspected the delay time does have an effect (just never dug far enough to find out what it was before)--just fired up a session, and tested it out.

I set up a Subtractor going through The Echo, turned the Wobble all the way up, and tried the Delay Time in three different positions. then I bounced the track and opened in Pitch Editor to see what was going on...
The Echo wobble.jpg
so here are my takeaways--
- Delay Time does factor in, to a degree
- lower Delay Time seems to introduce a measure of stability to the signal (still plenty of wobble, but not wobbling all the time)
- the biggest factor higher Delay Time settings have is that the wobble becomes very unstable, with no periods where the pitch remains steady
- a smaller factor of higher Delay Time settings is that it seems to slightly scale up the depth of the wobble
- appears there's some sort of point of diminishing returns with both stability and depth scaling provided by the Delay Time--in the middle and right examples, stability and depth appear to be about the same, despite an approximate doubling in the Delay Time
- the wobble does appear to be randomized (always kind of assumed that, but now I know :))

I guess I've never had a problem using a 1 ms Delay Time because it sounds a little more like the real thing to me--most of the shifty tape decks I've used in the past were never THAT shifty. :lol:
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Billy
Posts: 439
Joined: 09 Dec 2016

Post 14 Oct 2020

But the manual says nothing of that.

Wobble is Wobble and random
Time is delay time (sync or herts)

So you could be more correct.

Oh and yes I always keep the latest manual on my iPad for reference, sad but true.
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