Sequencer question

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dvdrtldg
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Post 12 Oct 2020

I'm trying to experiment with Steve Reich style phase composition - multiple loops running at slightly different tempos that start out in sync but slowly go out of phase

Interested in doing this with drum patterns & synth patterns as well as just loops - or simply layering drum patterns where they run at different tempos that aren't synced to the grid in any way

My question is: what's the best sequencer/rhythm generator available for doing this sort of thing? I'm trying to do it with PSQ-1684 and it's kind-of-OK, but I feel like I'm fighting it rather than working with it. I'd really like to use Euclid, but there's no facility to have it run in free Hz (feature request!)

deeplink
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Post 12 Oct 2020

Most of the players are sync'd to tempo.. so I can only thing of the RPG-8 device that can help here? Maybe RB's Sequencer or RS's Polystep used in conjuction with the RPG-8

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Timmy Crowne
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Post 12 Oct 2020

If I was shooting for loops that were polyrhythmic and overlapping each other but still working at the same tempo, I would use a player like Kompulsion. Having different lengths for the sequences would give a lot of unpredictability.

But if I were trying to go completely asynchronous and more experimental, I would export a bunch of loops to audio and time-stretch each one to a different tempo. Load them into an NNXT with FW-LOOP mode and use MIDI notes to trigger them. I think this would give a more tape-like feel.

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dvdrtldg
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Post 12 Oct 2020

Timmy Crowne wrote:
12 Oct 2020
I would export a bunch of loops to audio and time-stretch each one to a different tempo. Load them into an NNXT with FW-LOOP mode and use MIDI notes to trigger them. I think this would give a more tape-like feel.
This works OK, but I want to do it with whole drum kits where I can export each drum to its own channel and molest it with FX, automation, CV modulation etc. I guess NNXT could be set to do something like this, but seems like a bit of a faff when a free-running version of one of the many RE sequencers would be perfect

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lowtom
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Post 12 Oct 2020

Thor sequencer can run in Hz.
:reason: :refill: :re:

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plaamook
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Post 12 Oct 2020

I'd love to see free run added to Matrix. Such a pain in the ass to not have it.

But what I'd do/have done is copy patter to track and stretch the midi clips off the grid. Then you can edit and piss around all you like, even alter the patters, and you can manually stretch em to where you want em relative to each other.

Arjanders
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Joined: 30 May 2019

Post 13 Oct 2020

dvdrtldg wrote:
12 Oct 2020
I'd really like to use Euclid, but there's no facility to have it run in free Hz (feature request!)

Put a not synced gate signal (Pulsar, Shape, PSQ, Thor) into "clock in" of Euclid.
Done.

Arjanders
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Post 13 Oct 2020

Arjanders wrote:
13 Oct 2020
dvdrtldg wrote:
12 Oct 2020
I'd really like to use Euclid, but there's no facility to have it run in free Hz (feature request!)

Put a not synced gate signal (Pulsar, Shape, PSQ, ) into "clock in" of Euclid.
Done.

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dvdrtldg
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Post 14 Oct 2020

Arjanders wrote:
13 Oct 2020
dvdrtldg wrote:
12 Oct 2020
I'd really like to use Euclid, but there's no facility to have it run in free Hz (feature request!)
Put a not synced gate signal (Pulsar, Shape, PSQ, Thor) into "clock in" of Euclid.
Done.
But if I do that (say, with Pulsar --> Euclid --> Kong) then I just get the gate signal from Pulsar. It's like I'm sending the gate signal straight into Kong, because sending it through Euclid doesn't seem to make any difference, I'm certainly not getting the cool Euclid pattern. What am I missing here?

Arjanders
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Post 14 Oct 2020

dvdrtldg wrote:
14 Oct 2020
But if I do that (say, with Pulsar --> Euclid --> Kong) then I just get the gate signal from Pulsar. It's like I'm sending the gate signal straight into Kong, because sending it through Euclid doesn't seem to make any difference, I'm certainly not getting the cool Euclid pattern. What am I missing here?
With Pulsar being the external clock, Euclid will turn into a kind of "step mode", like on the rate of the lfo a step.
So empty steps will give no gate out.
A pattern in the Euclid will result in the same pattern, although with the timing of the external clock.

Edit: the Pulsar though will not start with a new cycle when pressing play on the transport. For having everything in sync you better use another external clock.

Bes
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Post 14 Oct 2020

do you have korde from lectric panda?

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dvdrtldg
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Post 15 Oct 2020

I do - also Propulsion. I can see that they're free-running and they get me close to what I want, but the ideal would be to somehow have the Euclid patterns in free mode

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Post 15 Oct 2020

I've used PSQ and Polystep in this video..

I was going to redo it with PSQ and Sequences as that has a slide parameter which you can move the ticks around so you could phase it one tick at a time, then when you +120 (as it goes from -120 to +120), move it forward a note and jump the slide back down to -120 (or -119)


Arjanders
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Post 15 Oct 2020

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
15 Oct 2020
I've used PSQ and Polystep in this video..

I was going to redo it with PSQ and Sequences as that has a slide parameter which you can move the ticks around so you could phase it one tick at a time, then when you +120 (as it goes from -120 to +120), move it forward a note and jump the slide back down to -120 (or -119)

Very nice! So Grid out A1 & A3 are step controlling the two Polysteps. How did you program the changing between A1 & A3? Can't discover it in the vid (:

Arjanders
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Post 15 Oct 2020

dvdrtldg wrote:
15 Oct 2020
I do - also Propulsion. I can see that they're free-running and they get me close to what I want, but the ideal would be to somehow have the Euclid patterns in free mode
Now that I hear Poobears Steve Reich, I'm not sure if you are really in need of a true free running Euclid, but I made an example. The only thing is that Pulsar (free running...) wont pay any attention to the transport at all, so I did put a matrix in it as well. Let the matrix run only the first bar to make sure the LFO will have the exact same starting point.

link

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dvdrtldg
Posts: 1400
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Post 15 Oct 2020

Arjanders wrote:
15 Oct 2020
dvdrtldg wrote:
15 Oct 2020
I do - also Propulsion. I can see that they're free-running and they get me close to what I want, but the ideal would be to somehow have the Euclid patterns in free mode
Now that I hear Poobears Steve Reich, I'm not sure if you are really in need of a true free running Euclid, but I made an example. The only thing is that Pulsar (free running...) wont pay any attention to the transport at all, so I did put a matrix in it as well. Let the matrix run only the first bar to make sure the LFO will have the exact same starting point.

link
Riiiiiiiiight I get it now

Thanks so much for that. I love setting up generative pieces, but my thing is usually to create drones and ambiences that involve various kinds of modulation but basically just start and then don't stop. I'm not so good at figuring out rhythmic setups, much appreciated

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Carly(Poohbear)
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Joined: 25 Jan 2015
Location: UK

Post 15 Oct 2020

Arjanders wrote:
15 Oct 2020


Very nice! So Grid out A1 & A3 are step controlling the two Polysteps. How did you program the changing between A1 & A3? Can't discover it in the vid (:
Both A1 and A3 are constant values, it's just that the A1 division is slightly smaller than A3.

I did start to play around with the player device Sequences so I could speed up when out of phase then rest (same speed) for several bars before speeding up again etc.. It was an experiment I did not finish but I will revisit when I have some real time :)

Side note: last year I did a Terry Riley's "In C" (using all modular created instruments in Reason), the midi was created outside using basic randomiser process and imported in, I'm looking to (maybe this xmas as it would be a year later since my last "In C" project) to do it all inside of Reason...

Arjanders
Posts: 114
Joined: 30 May 2019

Post 16 Oct 2020

dvdrtldg wrote:
15 Oct 2020
Arjanders wrote:
15 Oct 2020


Now that I hear Poobears Steve Reich, I'm not sure if you are really in need of a true free running Euclid, but I made an example. The only thing is that Pulsar (free running...) wont pay any attention to the transport at all, so I did put a matrix in it as well. Let the matrix run only the first bar to make sure the LFO will have the exact same starting point.

link
Riiiiiiiiight I get it now

Thanks so much for that. I love setting up generative pieces, but my thing is usually to create drones and ambiences that involve various kinds of modulation but basically just start and then don't stop. I'm not so good at figuring out rhythmic setups, much appreciated
Cool! If you are interested, I made one that will do only one shot with the matrix, so you don't need to automate it in the reason sequencer.

Arjanders
Posts: 114
Joined: 30 May 2019

Post 16 Oct 2020

Carly(Poohbear) wrote:
15 Oct 2020
Arjanders wrote:
15 Oct 2020


Very nice! So Grid out A1 & A3 are step controlling the two Polysteps. How did you program the changing between A1 & A3? Can't discover it in the vid (:
Both A1 and A3 are constant values, it's just that the A1 division is slightly smaller than A3.

I did start to play around with the player device Sequences so I could speed up when out of phase then rest (same speed) for several bars before speeding up again etc.. It was an experiment I did not finish but I will revisit when I have some real time :)

Side note: last year I did a Terry Riley's "In C" (using all modular created instruments in Reason), the midi was created outside using basic randomiser process and imported in, I'm looking to (maybe this xmas as it would be a year later since my last "In C" project) to do it all inside of Reason...
Nice, I get it, will try it out for myself! Interesting idea for Sequences as well, I guess it takes some effort to get the pattern change and the slide change right. Looking forward to that, I really like Sequences.

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selig
RE Developer
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Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

Post 16 Oct 2020

dvdrtldg wrote:
15 Oct 2020
...I love setting up generative pieces, but my thing is usually to create drones and ambiences that involve various kinds of modulation but basically just start and then don't stop. I'm not so good at figuring out rhythmic setups, much appreciated
I love doing long drones that never stop too (BTW, check out the LATCH Player), must come from early exposure to modular synths! But I also love rhythms, and I'm here to say there's not that much difference between a drone setup and a looping rhythmic setup IMO.

I like to think of the rhythmic setups as being similar to the drone setups, just with gaps of silence (or almost silence) between the otherwise continuous stream of sound. And in fact you're very likely already using rhythms in your drone setup if you use any LFO or looping envelope control!

In most cases, drones DO utilize rhythms in many cases, it's just slower and and the cycle is not as pronounced. It's like the difference between a light flashing once every hour and a light ramping up and back down over the same hour. It's the same cycle/rhythm, but with a different shape. Some of the same effects can even work effectively in both setups, such as a slowly shifting flanger or phaser, or rhythmic delays.

All to say, the main difference between the two approaches is one approach has continuous sound, the other has holes punched in the sound! So why not just fire up a drone and start punching holes! ;)
Selig Audio, LLC

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tallguy
Posts: 163
Joined: 11 Jan 2018

Post 16 Oct 2020

AS-16 is a rack extension sequencer that can run in Hz. It eschews a piano roll for an analogue style set of rotary knobs.

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