What uses more CPU? (Simple question)

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benstar16
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Post 11 Sep 2020

Grain (on default mode) or NNXT (on default mode)?

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adfielding
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Post 11 Sep 2020

benstar16 wrote:
11 Sep 2020
Grain (on default mode) or NNXT (on default mode)?
Educated guess: Grain, given that it came out in 2017 and does a lot more than ol' fashioned sample playback, and the NN-XT came out in 2003 :)

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moneykube
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Post 11 Sep 2020

perhaps super long samples in NNXT, might cause cpu to work harder... not sure... never really compared the two with long samples

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challism
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Post 11 Sep 2020

I'm moving this topic to General Reason. Neither Grain nor NNXT are rack extensions.

As per the question, I'd guess that Grain is heavier on DSP for the reasons Adam Fielding pointed out above.

Why don't you test it out for us, benstar16? Open two blank Reason songs. Load Grain into one, NNXT into the other. Then load the same sample into Grain and NNXT. Then duplicate the instruments a bunch of times and take turns playing the different Reason songs. Monitor the DSP meter. If it doesn't do much, duplicate more instances of the instruments. It will eventually start to climb. Make sure you have the same sample(s) loaded and the same number of of instruments in each song.
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mcatalao
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Post 12 Sep 2020

moneykube wrote:
11 Sep 2020
perhaps super long samples in NNXT, might cause cpu to work harder... not sure... never really compared the two with long samples
Nah, super long samples just need more ram.

These comparisons are fallacious because grain is defenitely not a normal sampler. It's a bit more like a bigger grain wave table synth, manipulating very small sections of the sample or working as a tape machine. It's a synth approach over sampling.

Also where nn-xt differs a lot is that it's a multi sample machine so you can have a different sample for each note on the keyboard and a different sample set for dynamic layers. Just look at How the piano refills are made and you get the gist of what it does. This is a pretty standard usage of nn-xt and the cpu doesnt even perspire a bit with any of the reason refills with nn-xt and a bunch of reason effects.

An interesting test you can make is to load the most simple grain and and the default piano patch and check how many can you run in a project until you hear glitches. I'm sure nn-xt is in the hundreds and grain is way less. And that piano patch is already multi sampled and multi layer.

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mcatalao
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Post 12 Sep 2020

challism wrote:
11 Sep 2020
I'm moving this topic to General Reason. Neither Grain nor NNXT are rack extensions.
Actually tecchnically Grain, Europa, the 2 new effects in 11, radical piano, pangea, Klang and humana, I think even pulverizer, the echo and alligator are all built in rack extensions. Just check the type of patches they all save.

Oh, and don't forget if Europa was a core built in device it would be way more difficult to port the code to vst.

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challism
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Post 12 Sep 2020

mcatalao wrote:
12 Sep 2020
challism wrote:
11 Sep 2020
I'm moving this topic to General Reason. Neither Grain nor NNXT are rack extensions.
Actually tecchnically Grain, Europa, the 2 new effects in 11, radical piano, pangea, Klang and humana, I think even pulverizer, the echo and alligator are all built in rack extensions. Just check the type of patches they all save.

Oh, and don't forget if Europa was a core built in device it would be way more difficult to port the code to vst.
You forgot The Echo, Audiomatic, the Softube amps and Pulsar. Yes, they are all *technically* REs. But you can't buy Grain as an RE, so it is different. It's included/built-in AND it can't be purchased separately as an RE. Therefore, it should be discussed in the General Reason forum.
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mcatalao
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Post 13 Sep 2020

Well... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

IMHO, if they were build on the SDK they're still Re's, just with a different license model.

But hey, admin's final word right?

Cheers,
MC

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EnochLight
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Post 13 Sep 2020

benstar16 wrote:
11 Sep 2020
Grain (on default mode) or NNXT (on default mode)?
A proper comparison would be 1 instance of NNXT, and a similar Combi full of Grain with the same number of samples loaded into them, since Grain only loads one sample at a time, yet NNXT can load layers and layers and layers of samples into one instance of NNXT.

For instance take 1 NNXT and load 30 samples into it that are (say for instance) 5 minutes long each. Then create a Combinator, create 3 of the 14-1 mixers into it, and then create 1 Grain, load the same sample, and duplicate them into 30 instances, then auto-route your audio cables into the mixers.

On my (admittedly old) system, just instantiating the 30 Grain each with a 5 minute sample loaded causes my DSP meter to tick 1 bar, without even triggering anything.

However, with just 1 NNXT loaded but with 30 of the 5 minute samples in a layer, no DSP bars tick.

NNXT came out literally 18 years ago, so I don't think it would surprise anyone that relatively recent Grain uses more DSP (especially taking into consideration the math it needs to do for granular is far more CPU-hungry).
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mcatalao
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Post 13 Sep 2020

EnochLight wrote:
13 Sep 2020
NNXT came out literally 18 years ago, so I don't think it would surprise anyone that relatively recent Grain uses more DSP (especially taking into consideration the math it needs to do for granular is far more CPU-hungry).
And not to forget as I stated before, Grain is a RE, not completely built in as NN-XT or Thor. Sandboxing and other things in Re's make them less efficient as a built-in device where code is part of the program.

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