Has VST-support ruined Reason?

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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thx
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Post 20 Jul 2020

I don't think VSTs are a big deal. But I do think these moves were funny enough to make the software name kinda ironic:

- Churning out 50+ "devices" that all do the same thing, often with the same code/sound/filters/fx. It's a modular-ish environment already, you could have added a bunch of low-level devices and combinator kids would have run riot. Years later, the competition has shown how it's done.
- Those toy devices. Eww.
- Creating an alternate plugin system that simply brought its own share of problems and hassles. Woot.
- Failing to treat third-party devs like royalty. Slow clap.
- Boxing themselves and users into an authoritarian authorisation hell. Literally trap beats.
- Having a mixer that's 2000 pixels high? That's outside of the rack? Why not.
- Creating the world's most fiddly DAW-like audio editing functionality. And then hardly updating it for a decade... Okey dokey.

BTW anyone posting despondent or critical stuff here, they absolutely adored this software at one time. Best software ever, once. Props.

michael.jaye
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Location: Sydney, Australia

Post 20 Jul 2020

EnochLight wrote:
17 Jul 2020
QVprod wrote:
17 Jul 2020
Gotta say though, it was kind of fun watching people here discover what a VST was once 9.5 came out.
It's almost good that it took that long, and those users discovered VST when they did. Back in the early-mid 2000's, I can remember VST's being a train wreck often, with GUI/UX that would make your eyes bleed and reliability just plain garbage. The format has truly come a long way in the past 10-12 years, for sure.
Great point!

chaosroyale
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Post 20 Jul 2020

yeah, what thx said.

(It still annoys me every time I see the stupid ugly Audiomatic or ID8 taking up space in the menu system. They could literally have been a bunch of combinator patches. "Scenic" too, did anyone fall for that?)

Reason was a groundbreaking semi-modular system, now being marketed as a bunch of not-so-good preset instruments plus some FX.
thx wrote:
20 Jul 2020
I don't think VSTs are a big deal. But I do think these moves were funny enough to make the software name kinda ironic:

- Churning out 50+ "devices" that all do the same thing, often with the same code/sound/filters/fx. It's a modular-ish environment already, you could have added a bunch of low-level devices and combinator kids would have run riot. Years later, the competition has shown how it's done.
- Those toy devices. Eww.
- Creating an alternate plugin system that simply brought its own share of problems and hassles. Woot.
- Failing to treat third-party devs like royalty. Slow clap.
- Boxing themselves and users into an authoritarian authorisation hell. Literally trap beats.
- Having a mixer that's 2000 pixels high? That's outside of the rack? Why not.
- Creating the world's most fiddly DAW-like audio editing functionality. And then hardly updating it for a decade... Okey dokey.

BTW anyone posting despondent or critical stuff here, they absolutely adored this software at one time. Best software ever, once. Props.

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QVprod
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Post 20 Jul 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
18 Jul 2020
Even if Reason Intro is free - why would anyone want to to download a big heavy "wrapper" just to use RE's which are, as another user put succinctly - mostly shit. They can already use VSTs without a wrapper, and VST versions of plugins are almost always superior in performance, CPU and price.

*Don't get me wrong- Selig's stuff and a few others are great, but in 20 years of professional sound engineering I have never met a single client or colleague who has even heard of "coloring EQ" or "Expanse".

EDIT - obviously RE's have only been out for 8 years, and I don't mean specifically only those 2 RE's.
The main point is that nobody has ever said to me "Hey, how about that awesome new RE!" when talking shop about music production.
There was never anything to talk about before because other DAW users couldn’t use REs, especially effects REs, up until less than a year ago. I stopped buying them myself as I started using Studio One more often. That may very well change now. They’ve certainly become a more attractive option for me than before. Reason Rack isn’t the first with a wrapper plugin. People have been using stuff like Amplitude for years. It’s the same concept.
Goriila Texas wrote:
18 Jul 2020
That team runs this forum that's why any negativity about Reason is not tolerated.
...It’s so the opposite. viewtopic.php?t=7513588&start=575

Majority of mod posts are just participating in discussIons like anyone else here. Don’t count that as “moderation”

chaosroyale
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Post 20 Jul 2020

Because you already have Reason and own some REs. Nobody is gonna be lining up to buy REs when there are more powerful and cheaper VSTs that work directly in any DAW. If Reason is trying to change into a kind of Soundtoys/Kilohearts plugin rack, then fair enough, good luck to them, but they will need better products because most RE's do not stand up to the competition.
QVprod wrote:
20 Jul 2020
There was never anything to talk about before because other DAW users couldn’t use REs, especially effects REs, up until less than a year ago

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QVprod
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Post 20 Jul 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
20 Jul 2020
Because you already have Reason and own some REs. Nobody is gonna be lining up to buy REs when there are more powerful and cheaper VSTs that work directly in any DAW. If Reason is trying to change into a kind of Soundtoys/Kilohearts plugin rack, then fair enough, good luck to them, but they will need better products because most RE's do not stand up to the competition.
QVprod wrote:
20 Jul 2020
There was never anything to talk about before because other DAW users couldn’t use REs, especially effects REs, up until less than a year ago
That’s on RS and developers to make interesting REs. Of course there are REs in the shop that don’t compete, but that’s because they could get away with “good enough” for the users that were Reason only prior to VST support. Think in the context of both a free rack and quality RE and again it’s the same concept as Ampliitude.

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selig
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Post 20 Jul 2020

Goriila Texas wrote:
18 Jul 2020
If I was BigAnt on that forum and was notorious for getting banned by Mathias for arguing with most of the Mods on this forum who most were on the other team against the growth of Reason. That team runs this forum that's why any negativity about Reason is not tolerated.
I STILL think Reason need SO many more "DAW" features that are standard on other DAWs, so I'm guessing I'm not one of "those mods"! ;)
I don't think I know of anyone here who is an honest to God "fan boy" for everything Reason. In my experience, everyone here has things they want added to Reason that will probably never happen.
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hurricane
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Post 20 Jul 2020

In this DAW world, it's like, why would I use Scream when I could use (the higher quality) Saturn? Why would I use Thor when I could use (the higher quality) Diva? Why would I use Europa when I could use (the uber higher quality) Serum or Massive? Why would I use ANY of Reason's synths when stuff like Hive, Repro, ANA, Alchemy, and Sylenth exist?? Why would I use the RV7000 when I could use (the more awesome) Space Designer/EastWest Spaces/Waves IR1? Why would I use Audiomatic when I could use (the higher quality) XLN Retro Color? Why would I EVER use the M-Class devices? Why would I EVER want to use any of Reason's factory effects when all of them have been eclipsed in quality?

I use the RRP because I bought some A-Class Guitarist REs a long time ago and those are still useful to me. I use PX7 because I have a lot of custom PX7 patches. The only other instrument REs I use are ReDominator, Antidote, and Pulse. That's it. There isn't a SINGLE effect in the shop or factory library that I want to use. I don't use the RRP effect version. It's no competition - VSTs/AUs rule. Pop-up windows don't scare me, and I can handle managing and installing software. The RRP is just there so that I could feel slightly better about my regrettable RE purchases. If I could sell them I would do it in an instant.
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chaosroyale
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Post 20 Jul 2020

This kind of reminds me - the last time I heard other DAW users wanting to use Reason native devices was around 10 years ago - the Scream4 and the RV7000. "I wish they had VST versions!". At the time, they were better than the native distortions or verbs in other DAWs and even most VSTs.

But, as usual, they were never updated, and now nobody thinks of them when they think of distortion or reverb. Everyone thinks of Trash2 / Saturn, and well..literally too many reverbs to count. I really would have liked to see a Scream5 and RV8000 but the right time was years ago.
hurricane wrote:
20 Jul 2020
In this DAW world, it's like, why would I use Scream when I could use (the higher quality) Saturn? Why would I use Thor when I could use (the higher quality) Diva? Why would I use Europa when I could use (the uber higher quality) Serum or Massive? Why would I use ANY of Reason's synths when stuff like Hive, Repro, ANA, Alchemy, and Sylenth exist?? Why would I use the RV7000 when I could use (the more awesome) Space Designer/EastWest Spaces/Waves IR1? Why would I use Audiomatic when I could use (the higher quality) XLN Retro Color? Why would I EVER use the M-Class devices? Why would I EVER want to use any of Reason's factory effects when all of them have been eclipsed in quality?

I use the RRP because I bought some A-Class Guitarist REs a long time ago and those are still useful to me. I use PX7 because I have a lot of custom PX7 patches. The only other instrument REs I use are ReDominator, Antidote, and Pulse. That's it. There isn't a SINGLE effect in the shop or factory library that I want to use. I don't use the RRP effect version. It's no competition - VSTs/AUs rule. Pop-up windows don't scare me, and I can handle managing and installing software. The RRP is just there so that I could feel slightly better about my regrettable RE purchases. If I could sell them I would do it in an instant.

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EnochLight
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Post 21 Jul 2020

hurricane wrote:
20 Jul 2020
In this DAW world, it's like, why would I use Scream when I could use (the higher quality) Saturn? Why would I use Thor when I could use (the higher quality) Diva? Why would I use Europa when I could use (the uber higher quality) Serum or Massive? Why would I use ANY of Reason's synths when stuff like Hive, Repro, ANA, Alchemy, and Sylenth exist?? Why would I use the RV7000 when I could use (the more awesome) Space Designer/EastWest Spaces/Waves IR1? Why would I use Audiomatic when I could use (the higher quality) XLN Retro Color? Why would I EVER use the M-Class devices? Why would I EVER want to use any of Reason's factory effects when all of them have been eclipsed in quality?

I use the RRP because I bought some A-Class Guitarist REs a long time ago and those are still useful to me. I use PX7 because I have a lot of custom PX7 patches. The only other instrument REs I use are ReDominator, Antidote, and Pulse. That's it. There isn't a SINGLE effect in the shop or factory library that I want to use. I don't use the RRP effect version. It's no competition - VSTs/AUs rule. Pop-up windows don't scare me, and I can handle managing and installing software. The RRP is just there so that I could feel slightly better about my regrettable RE purchases. If I could sell them I would do it in an instant.
I find this fascinating. You prefer all of those VST over core Reason devices, yet... you still seem to gravitate towards Reason for... what exactly? RPP? :shock: :lol: Genuinely interested as to why you stick around here or use Reason, when the devices you dismissed are literally part of its core functionality.
Win 10 | Reason 11 Suite |  Studio 1 4.6 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live 2 & Force | Roland System 8, TR-8 7x7 Expansion, MX1, JX8P, TB3 | Ensoniq SQ1 Plus | Korg Minilogue XD

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hurricane
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Post 21 Jul 2020

...

Genuinely interested as to why you stick around here or use Reason, when the devices you dismissed are literally part of its core functionality.


Not anymore. That's why I stick around. Cuz I don't have to use those devices. And those devices aren't what make Reason "Reason".
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DaveyG
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Post 21 Jul 2020

QVprod wrote:
20 Jul 2020
Goriila Texas wrote:
18 Jul 2020
That team runs this forum that's why any negativity about Reason is not tolerated.
...It’s so the opposite. viewtopic.php?t=7513588&start=575

Majority of mod posts are just participating in discussIons like anyone else here. Don’t count that as “moderation”
I think you are probably not the mod he was referring to!

madmacman
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Post 21 Jul 2020

DaveyG wrote:
21 Jul 2020
QVprod wrote:
20 Jul 2020



...It’s so the opposite. viewtopic.php?t=7513588&start=575

Majority of mod posts are just participating in discussIons like anyone else here. Don’t count that as “moderation”
I think you are probably not the mod he was referring to!
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avasopht
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Post 21 Jul 2020

hurricane wrote:
21 Jul 2020


Not anymore. That's why I stick around. Cuz I don't have to use those devices. And those devices aren't what make Reason "Reason".
Interesting. Is it the rack and cabling?
---

chaosroyale
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Post 21 Jul 2020

Strongly disagree. what is "core functionality" about Europa or RV7000??? You can easily replace them with any number of VSTs.

In my opinion the only "core functionality" devices are the Spider audio splitter, CV splitter, mini-mixer, Combinator, main desk, and how they integrate so well. My projects almost never use the big "flagship" synths and FX from Reason.

(edited for simplicity)

EnochLight wrote:
21 Jul 2020
you still seem to gravitate towards Reason for... what exactly? RPP? :shock: :lol: Genuinely interested as to why you stick around here or use Reason, when the devices you dismissed are literally part of its core functionality.
Last edited by chaosroyale on 21 Jul 2020, edited 1 time in total.

chaosroyale
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Post 21 Jul 2020

I am surprised that we have people asking "do you use Reason for the rack and cabling?" on a Reason forum. The integration of the rack and the DAW working together is literally the only unique thing about Reason.
avasopht wrote:
21 Jul 2020
hurricane wrote:
21 Jul 2020


Not anymore. That's why I stick around. Cuz I don't have to use those devices. And those devices aren't what make Reason "Reason".
Interesting. Is it the rack and cabling?

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QVprod
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Post 21 Jul 2020

hurricane wrote:
20 Jul 2020
In this DAW world, it's like, why would I use Scream when I could use (the higher quality) Saturn? Why would I use Thor when I could use (the higher quality) Diva? Why would I use Europa when I could use (the uber higher quality) Serum or Massive? Why would I use ANY of Reason's synths when stuff like Hive, Repro, ANA, Alchemy, and Sylenth exist?? Why would I use the RV7000 when I could use (the more awesome) Space Designer/EastWest Spaces/Waves IR1? Why would I use Audiomatic when I could use (the higher quality) XLN Retro Color? Why would I EVER use the M-Class devices? Why would I EVER want to use any of Reason's factory effects when all of them have been eclipsed in quality?

From the perspective of someone who already has those tools, perhaps not. But from the perspective of someone who doesn't, all those devices (collectively) present a good value. Similar to Komplete, most of that stuff doesn't get much use either, rather you find the few things in it that appeal to you. I have Massive X, but I still load up Europa when I want to make a specific sound quickly.

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avasopht
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Post 21 Jul 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
21 Jul 2020
I am surprised that we have people asking "do you use Reason for the rack and cabling?" on a Reason forum. The integration of the rack and the DAW working together is literally the only unique thing about Reason.

I'm not asking whether he uses the rack and cabling. Enoch had said the devices he didn't like were core, and hurricane said they're not what he considers core.

I've started using Live last week (just got a Push and LaunchPad over the weekend), and I'm still using Reason Lite for some effects and Drums (Kikbak and that free Commodore 64 Refill layer incredibly well).

I just thought I'd ask anyway because maybe his answer might surprise me.
---

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selig
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Post 21 Jul 2020

hurricane wrote:
20 Jul 2020
In this DAW world, it's like, why would I use Scream when I could use (the higher quality) Saturn? Why would I use Thor when I could use (the higher quality) Diva? Why would I use Europa when I could use (the uber higher quality) Serum or Massive? \
Why would I use a silver tone amp when I could use a "higher quality" marshall? Why use a casio when I could use a synclavier, why use an SM57 when I could use a U47? Why use a cheap 808 (or 303) when you can use a higher quality drum machine like a LinnDrum? I could go on…

I believe it is because it's "Horses for Courses" in any art form, with the "quality" being in the eyes (ears) of the beholder. Why use Reason at all, why not use the "higher quality? Logic or Live? In my case it's because I make a shit-ton of music in Reason and I've made 3 songs total in Logic in the past 5 years and I've never made a song in Live despite having the demo and lite versions on my computer for many years. Who knows why Reason works for me, I no longer question it even though I routinely check out other DAWs like SoundBridge/S1/Bitwig.

For me, I've seen this in studios all my life, where the "cheap" instrument gets a certain vibe and creative feel the "high quality" instrument simply cannot achieve. It works both ways, the "high quality" instruments do things the cheap ones can never do. But IMO you are limiting yourself if you believe you can ONLY use the "high quality" instruments (or the cheap for that matter) for some reason based on "logical thinking". Yes, LOGICALLY the high quality instruments SHOULD always work better than the cheaper ones with fewer features. But PRACTICALLY, at least in MY experience, all options are on the table and I use whatever works.

Duke Ellington still sums it up best IMO:"if it sounds good, it IS good". And we each get to decide for ourselves what "good sounding" actually means!
Selig Audio, LLC

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avasopht
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Post 21 Jul 2020

selig wrote:
21 Jul 2020
For me, I've seen this in studios all my life, where the "cheap" instrument gets a certain vibe and creative feel the "high quality" instrument simply cannot achieve. It works both ways, the "high quality" instruments do things the cheap ones can never do. But IMO you are limiting yourself if you believe you can ONLY use the "high quality" instruments (or the cheap for that matter) for some reason based on "logical thinking". Yes, LOGICALLY the high quality instruments SHOULD always work better than the cheaper ones with fewer features. But PRACTICALLY, at least in MY experience, all options are on the table and I use whatever works.

Duke Ellington still sums it up best IMO:"if it sounds good, it IS good". And we each get to decide for ourselves what "good sounding" actually means!
^ This ...

I start a lot of tracks using "lower quality" VSTs and Refills. Sometimes just loading faster makes the lower quality one better for me. The interface, browsing and sound palette also matter.

Plus you just might get a more suitable or preferable character.
---

chaosroyale
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Post 21 Jul 2020

Selig - I love your work and I am in no way trying to "win" an argument here - but you are making a strawman, and I think this kind of argument actually enables Reason Studios to keep living in their bubble where they think they are making great products. Let me try to explain what I mean.

1: where we agree - "If it sounds good, it is good" - This is my favorite musicology quote of all time, and the Duke is right.

2: The idea of "hi-spec and expensive vs. cheap and cheerful" - this is the strawman. I agree that "hurricane" used some examples that look like they were saying "top-spec and expensive is best". I will try to give my perspective. I LOVE simple and cheap devices. That's why I agreed with THX above, and why I hate stuff like "Scenic". My favorite 2 Reason devices are probably Subtractor and the original half-rack filter. My favorite VST compressor is the ADHD LA2, and that is FREE.

But here's the thing, Reason ISN'T CHEAP. It is charging for a premium product, while delivering quality similar to FREE VSTS. Surely you can see the problem there, from a business perspective? Same goes for RE's. My second-favorite EQ after Pro-Q is Tokyo Dawn Nova, and that is also free, even their "pro" version only costs 60 bucks (compare that to the now old and ugly, slow-GUI, non-dynamic, GQ-7 Rack Extension, which is still considered by many to be the "best" standard EQ in Reason).

3: The idea that it is one-or-the-other. This is a false dichotomy. Updates and better specs do not conflict with a simple, fun-to-use GUI like old-school Reason. I love Subtractor because it is so well-designed that although a noob can use it like any other basic analog synth, it also has "semi-hidden" features like the oscillator modes, so a sound designer can get into really freaky territory. That is an example of the kind of "quality" I am talking about. As for upgrades - it already has a "lo-fi" mode switch, so how would adding an oversampled "hi-fi" mode make it worse? Adding that hi-fi mode and maybe an extra filter type would definitely make it more competitive compared to more recent VA synths, without taking anything away from ease-of-use.


So, in a nutshell, you are setting up a conflict that isn't there: "cheap and fun vs. expensive and hi-tech", and that kind of thinking leads Reason Studios to being complacent and not competitive.


edit- for gender neutrality because I am a dinosaur.
selig wrote:
21 Jul 2020
hurricane wrote:
20 Jul 2020
In this DAW world, it's like, why would I use Scream when I could use (the higher quality) Saturn? Why would I use Thor when I could use (the higher quality) Diva? Why would I use Europa when I could use (the uber higher quality) Serum or Massive? \
Why would I use a silver tone amp when I could use a "higher quality" marshall? Why use a casio when I could use a synclavier, why use an SM57 when I could use a U47? Why use a cheap 808 (or 303) when you can use a higher quality drum machine like a LinnDrum? I could go on…

I believe it is because it's "Horses for Courses" in any art form, with the "quality" being in the eyes (ears) of the beholder. Why use Reason at all, why not use the "higher quality? Logic or Live? In my case it's because I make a shit-ton of music in Reason and I've made 3 songs total in Logic in the past 5 years and I've never made a song in Live despite having the demo and lite versions on my computer for many years. Who knows why Reason works for me, I no longer question it even though I routinely check out other DAWs like SoundBridge/S1/Bitwig.

For me, I've seen this in studios all my life, where the "cheap" instrument gets a certain vibe and creative feel the "high quality" instrument simply cannot achieve. It works both ways, the "high quality" instruments do things the cheap ones can never do. But IMO you are limiting yourself if you believe you can ONLY use the "high quality" instruments (or the cheap for that matter) for some reason based on "logical thinking". Yes, LOGICALLY the high quality instruments SHOULD always work better than the cheaper ones with fewer features. But PRACTICALLY, at least in MY experience, all options are on the table and I use whatever works.

Duke Ellington still sums it up best IMO:"if it sounds good, it IS good". And we each get to decide for ourselves what "good sounding" actually means!

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hurricane
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Post 21 Jul 2020

avasopht wrote:
21 Jul 2020

I just thought I'd ask anyway because maybe his answer might surprise me.
Nah, it won't. :puf_smile: I mean, I could create a track in Reason using only VSTs (which I do often) and never hitting TAB (again which I do often) and completely bypass Reason's "core functionality". My point was simply that the devices do not make the DAW.
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DaveyG
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Post 21 Jul 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
21 Jul 2020
I am surprised that we have people asking "do you use Reason for the rack and cabling?" on a Reason forum. The integration of the rack and the DAW working together is literally the only unique thing about Reason.
I think you might be surprised how little use the cables get from the majority of users. Fact is, you don't need to touch them for most stuff. The auto wiring means you can drag an instrument, a player, and a couple of effects units into the rack and it will connect them up in the "normal" way then away you go.

There are some intelligent and clever people on here who love to come up with interesting ways to connect and interconnect equipment, and that's great, but I don't for a minute believe that they make up the majority of Reason users. You may well find that they only reason most users press TAB is to either see the cables wobbling (which I still love) or to try to fix something when the auto-wiring has not quite done what they expected. That's pretty much me. I occasionally follow a tutorial or copy of one of the aforementioned clever people to try something but mostly the CV stuff leaves me cold.

(Aside: Part of the problem for me is that I was there back when synths were real and when CV was the only thing we had and, frankly, it was a bugger to make it work because it was not a standard thing. Everyone knew a CV wizard who would turn up and fiddle with something to make it work, sometimes inside the synth, sometimes adding a magic box. I was on board with MIDI before they got to the first I...)

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selig
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Post 21 Jul 2020

chaosroyale wrote:
21 Jul 2020
Selig - I love your work and I am in no way trying to "win" an argument here - but you are making a strawman, and I think this kind of argument actually enables Reason Studios to keep living in their bubble where they think they are making great products. Let me try to explain what I mean.
I appreciate your approach to this discussion - there is no "winning" here, we are simply sharing what works for each of us!

I probably didn't explain it well, but my philosophy is "horses for courses". For me this means use whatever works best. It's hardly an "either or" philosophy, it's an all inclusive philosophy!

That being said, I believe Reason is a great product for me, because it's the best tool I've found for MY creative approach. I just make tons of useful music on it, mix pro tracks for other artists on it, make production music for TV libraries on it (even if much of it has never seen the light of day!), build products for it, use it to test/compare gear, etc.

I started on the SSL and Studer/3M tape machines in a top notch studio. My last studio was based around a big Pro Tools system with a 24 fader ICON controller. At the same time, I used cheaper gear at home for my first solo project in 1986 (Akai S900, Matrix 6, TX-816, PCM-70s, on a Mac 512), after moving out of my studio gig where I was using a Fairlight CMI, DX1, Jupiter 8 etc. I like to think I can use the "pro" gear AND the "home" gear equally well, and in many cases would have preferred the "pro" gear, no lie. Would I rather have had an SSL and 3M 32 track digital recorder at home? You bet, but I had a much smaller budget to work with! ;)

I still think that way, trying to see the creative potential of all gear from the top to the bottom. I also work with a lot of creative producers that are just as likely to have a $10,000 mic as a $50 mic, sometimes used side by side, and have a kids drum kit and home organ next to their high end kits and B3s. I really don't draw lines between gear, and would never make it an "either/or" decision when choosing gear. So hopefully I've made that point more clearly.

As for Reason, I have a LONG list of features I'd like to have added which would greatly improve my workflow. It's one of the first things I discussed when I had the chance to visit the home office a few years back, and I continually make my desires known publicly. I feel it's a shame there are so many basic "missing" features in Reason, and I'll keep harping on them to improve the experience at every opportunity!
Selig Audio, LLC

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hurricane
Posts: 1605
Joined: 14 Oct 2017

Post 21 Jul 2020

This whole legacy mindset of needing to be a tweaker, CVer, and a patcher to qualify as a true Reason user is completely outdated. I get a chuckle when one of the Reason Karens jumps in with the "if you don't use REs and don't use cables then why are you here, you don't belong here, why do you use Reason?". Well check this out Reason Karens - when I used Acid waaaay back in the day, I NEVER USED LOOPS. :o
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music | https://soundcloud.com/hurricaneaudiolab
Mac mini | Logic Pro | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700/D2/TR-09 | microKorg I 03R/W | SL990 PRO

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