Will there not be a Reason 12? Time for subscription?

[Boombastix]

Just for "fun" I looked at the RS LinkedIn page. I think most users agree RS need to catch up on the DAW side, thus they need SW programmers.

They have some SW dev AFAI could see, but only one recruit ad in the past year or so. But they are adding several junior marketing people. So maybe this SW company has 10% SW developers? Not sure, but looks to be in that order of magnitude.

They also look for a new CTO with SaaS experience, yep that's it - SUBSCRIPTION.

Remember when Mattias said a while back "IF there will be a Reason 12". Well, maybe they are not ready to go Sub by R12 (considering the CTO is not even recruited), but perhaps by the time the "R13" is ready. Nobody knows.

It may not necessarily mean RS will get sold by Verdane just yet, they may even think about buying up other music/SW companies to make a more compelling package and take it public, or sell to someone bigger. We just do not know.

Time will tell if they drop all existing customers off at the last purchased version, or if they run SaaS in parallell with purchased versions. With other DAWs already integrating ARA and VST3 and much more, maybe they see the gap is widening, and it is time to re-direct focus completely, unable to catch up sufficiently as it may be.

Many things can happen, several competitors integrate loop shops in the DAW. But selling loops is a very saturated market too, and it may be harder to use loops in the future when/if Spotify/YouTube will copyright strike anyone using a loop that was already released as a song. Already now you may have to declare to a label or agent if you used loops or not. The VST market is over saturated as well, who needs another VA or EQ? Cheap or free DAWs have made an entry, so all avenues are difficult to grow. How many new users go iPad vs PC/Mac, is the platform in stagnation? The last real innovation was Re-Cycle some 20yrs ago, most other stuff is just RS doing incremental development or copying what others do. Lot's of questions and many difficult decisions ahead in a changing but saturated market.

What is the asset, the active user base of course. But will YOU go sub with them? Or will you demand a purchased version with real DAW development?

Questions, questions...

[antic604]

What is the asset, the active user base of course.

You really think that? From VC perspective no less?

My take on it is that Verdane saw the opportunity and got convinced when they saw the RE tech. It's been clear for 2+ years now that they're working hard on easy / automated porting of VSTs to & from REs (case in point for both: Europa and lately Autotune) and their plan is to build a centralised marketplace for VSTs or VSTs in RE format. The idea works something like this as a pitch to developers:

• come to us with your VST - we'll help you converting it to RE
• sell your 'new' RE in out shop - we'll take care of files hosting, anti-piracy measures, promotion, patches & updates process, unified login & passwords for users
• we already have rent-to-own and subscription mechanisms in our marketplace, so you can take advantage of those, too
• because your plugin is now an RE, it can be used - via Reason Rack plugin - in any DAW supporting VST, AU or AAX and - in near future - probably also in the web, in AU (iOS plugins) or in hardware, as was shown during that Juce presentation last year
• we'll make Reason Rack plugin FREE eventually, because we'll take a small fee from every sale (rent/subscription) of your RE, thus making it more widely available to people NOT having to have Reason DAW

The above sadly does mean Reason DAW might take a 2nd or 3rd seat in Reason Studios' products portfolio, which I guess you're worried about

[antic604]

But will YOU go sub with them? Or will you demand a purchased version with real DAW development?

Never. I often go through several weeks of not even doing anything music-related (other than posting shit on forums ) so any type of subscription is out of the question for me. I get stuff - DAWs, plugins - on sale or 2nd hand.

[moneykube]

Screen Shot 2020-07-01 at 2.04.46 AM.png (134.86 KiB) Viewed 4615 times

got many questions to answer before I would consider a sub... but 97 percent sure that moment or move ,would be my goodbye to rs in spades... they have lost all focus... would have to use the MANY 1000's of dollars I paid them... ANSWERS or not a penny more... ANSWER... why remove tickets, forum, and civility? Reminds my of developers I can not name cause oh no "shame"///No... it is a wake up call to a developer to TRY to get his ego to operate as a normal business... Blaming, insults , "LEECHES", lies... need to go.... it is easy to be nice. You could be talented as the Stones/ Floyd/Orb or whoever you like... BUT DO NOT BLAME YOUR CUSTOMERS as the easy way out... OWN UP... The poll I made for one developer should never have been removed... in 2 hours 12 agreed he was excessively rude.... then poll removed... lets get truth on this forum or what is the point.... Perhaps the poll could have turned into a benefit for users when the developer realized this is not an isolated case and HIS attitude needs to change big time... instead locked... hmmm ... seems inbreeding is contagious.... the whole RS deletion of facts does not help... forum of great knowledge gone....; tickets gone... no support in other words...)and now the same here... wow) Anger for unjust behaviour should not be hidden no matter how much your "FRIEND" might dislike it.
BLAME THE USERS... come on... own your fuck ups for at least one time... SURPRISE us... I double dare u.... ANSWER>>> OWN UP>>> IT DOES NOT GO AWAY BECAUSE PEOPLE THINK "OH MY HOW COULD SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT TO A DEVELOPER OR RS">>> GROW UP>>> STAND UP FOR YOUR LOVE OF MUSIC AND CIVILITY>>>> FLEAS OR MEN?////////////????????>??>
locking threads that are true bring great questions to mind... are we supposed to be decieved... is that the goal... or you say an attack... come on... you know, I know and most people here know... why hide the obvious?
mods enlighten me if u have time... quite frankly it seems like a cover up

[Popey]

As someone who moved daw's and use rrp now I don't think I would join a subscription service. I'm not even sure I would get 12 (if there is one) at this point but that will depend on what new devices they bring out as part of the new version. Still love reason but don't miss the sequencer at all. I do hope they improve the daw for the many sole reason users on here though.

[Rackman]

Look at the work they've been doing for the last couple of years. Zero investment in DAW and more interestingly very little effort in fixing the appalling shop. All investment in plugin and independent REs.

I think the following are pretty clear at this point:
- Goodbye DAW
- Hello new shop and model built around subscription.
- Free plugin

They see the value as residing in REs. These are the things they can sell if they can increase their potential audience. Selling the DAW is not an option as they have fallen so far behind the competition that they would only ever be playing catch up.

The Autotune RE was so unexpected and out of place that it must have been an experiment. Personally I can't see loads of developers wanting to port VSTs to REs no matter what, so I think there is another piece of the puzzle. Some kind of automated port that will require no effort on developers behalf.

[moneykube]

[antic604]

I think the following are pretty clear at this point:
- Goodbye DAW
- Hello new shop and model built around subscription.
- Free plugin

They see the value as residing in REs. These are the things they can sell if they can increase their potential audience. Selling the DAW is not an option as they have fallen so far behind the competition that they would only ever be playing catch up.

The Autotune RE was so unexpected and out of place that it must have been an experiment. Personally I can't see loads of developers wanting to port VSTs to REs no matter what, so I think there is another piece of the puzzle. Some kind of automated port that will require no effort on developers behalf.

So, I'm not alone in seeing that (see my reply few posts above yours)?

[DaveyG]

Verdane will be looking to sell soon. Until new owners are in place every decision will not be made with users in mind unless that happens to coincide with making the company more saleable.

[Rackman]

I think the following are pretty clear at this point:
- Goodbye DAW
- Hello new shop and model built around subscription.
- Free plugin

They see the value as residing in REs. These are the things they can sell if they can increase their potential audience. Selling the DAW is not an option as they have fallen so far behind the competition that they would only ever be playing catch up.

The Autotune RE was so unexpected and out of place that it must have been an experiment. Personally I can't see loads of developers wanting to port VSTs to REs no matter what, so I think there is another piece of the puzzle. Some kind of automated port that will require no effort on developers behalf.

So, I'm not alone in seeing that (see my reply few posts above yours)?

No. I think it's pretty clear now to those without heads in sand. The interesting thing is what happens to users who have invested in REs. It's a very similar situation to the move of Adobe to a subscription model. They basically gave software owners a years free subscription, then you had to pay yearly. Of course you could not upgrade, but you would be stuck on the last version forever. But I'm not sure that they will go that far. I think they'll still want to sell individual REs rather than just offering a few bundles but who knows. I think the Suite thing from 11 might point the other way.

I think the big problem here is that they're terrible at making web-based things. You only have to spend 2 mins on their shop to see they are utterly clueless. So I don't hold out much hope for whatever system they put in place. Plus they seem to be having more and more issues with authoriser lately.

Anyway. The game is to sell the company for maximal profit, so whatever they are doing it is to make the company more appealing to a buyer. And a subscription model would be much more appealing.

[antic604]

No.

Ok, so you either didn't get anything from what I wrote or you wrote one thing and meant something different

I think we both assume RS will be pushing RE store as the main product, trying to get as many VST devs as possible to join and to convert their plugins to RE; but for some reason you assume the ONLY way to get REs going forward will be subscription, whereas I don't see it. It's definitely going to be a part of the offer, but I can't see them resigning from one-off purchases or rent-to-own model.

[Rackman]

I meant 'No, you're not alone'.

[PhillipOrdonez]

If they decide to do subscription but keep the regular model as well, then I'll continue with the regular model. But take away the regular model and I'll say "Ha det bra!" To RS inn terms of further business from me.

I don't do subscriptions. Would never do software subscriptions. I'll be fine with Reason 11 suite, and only upgrade Ableton live. Subscription only is the shittiest move a software company could make.

I think the subscription thing should be focused on rack extensions for those who like that sort of thing. I'm fine with that because I still get to buy what I want (old model ftw) and those who see a benefit can use the subscription silliness if they want ‍♂️

Free RRP would be awesome to bring more clients so yes to that, but no to Reason as a subscription only product. No. And I trust they aren't stupid to do that, so we are just wasting time here. Speaking of which, I got to start working, 6:05 in the morning, so adieu for now.

[EdGrip]

Never. I often go through several weeks of not even doing anything music-related (other than posting shit on forums ) so any type of subscription is out of the question for me. I get stuff - DAWs, plugins - on sale or 2nd hand.

Same. I will avoid software subscription for as long as possible, and I'm fine with switching DAWs to do that.

[antic604]

I meant 'No, you're not alone'.

Oh, sorry. My bad

[guitfnky]

I’d just say that probably 99% of the time, predictions like these end up not happening. it’s fun to speculate, but the likelihood that any of this stuff happening is awfully low—possible, for sure, but unlikely.

[antic604]

I’d just say that probably 99% of the time, predictions like these end up not happening. it’s fun to speculate, but the likelihood that any of this stuff happening is awfully low—possible, for sure, but unlikely.

You're making it sound like we're talking about finding aliens on Mars

No, people are just trying to extrapolate RS' plans from what they do with the tech, the shop and the DAW.

[danc]

I’d just say that probably 99% of the time, predictions like these end up not happening. it’s fun to speculate, but the likelihood that any of this stuff happening is awfully low—possible, for sure, but unlikely.

You're making it sound like we're talking about finding aliens on Mars

No, people are just trying to extrapolate RS' plans from what they do with the tech, the shop and the DAW.

A lot of people love and/or prefer the subscription model as they aren't 'committed' enough to pay a large amount of money upfront... or don't have the money.

Subscriptions are everywhere from mobile phone contracts, movies, music and from plugin providers (e.g. Plugin Alliance). It's a way of 21st century life - we can't stop it.

Would Reason Studios consider it? Yes - very likely.

Will they do it (either as an option or the only route) - very likely if they think it's a viable financial stream.

Do I want them to do it? I don't mind as long as they stay in business and this is a route they need to take to stay in business.

[guitfnky]

I’d just say that probably 99% of the time, predictions like these end up not happening. it’s fun to speculate, but the likelihood that any of this stuff happening is awfully low—possible, for sure, but unlikely.

You're making it sound like we're talking about finding aliens on Mars

No, people are just trying to extrapolate RS' plans from what they do with the tech, the shop and the DAW.

yes, and we’ve been doing that since the original PUF, and the vast majority of time we have, and will likely continue to get it wrong.

[RealReasonHead]

yes, and we’ve been doing that since the original PUF, and the vast majority of time we have, and will likely continue to get it wrong.

Just wanted to say that I agree with you. I feel like the discussions in this forum are always the same. People who are fed up with the direction of Reason are posting and the others don't care to post. Predictions have been false in the past and from what I've seen from the years on the internet this holds true for many of the speculations. This is not to say that people are stupid but if you make 100 guesses maybe one of them is correct so the chance of success is low by nature. You can interpret hints all you want but I don't think it works as well as it seems.

[NDKay]

The "music making mart" is somewhat saturated like already mentioned. There are Sales all over everywhere! (Cakewalk even for free)

I have some thoughts, too. But many of them have a dead end as it doesnt make much sense. And thats the point!
Many things that are done nowadays make sense from a "profit" perspective (which mostly is a wrong mindf*ck), but are of no use to the "cause" - or make it even worse.

- Will RS go subscription ? Maybe. Does it make sense ? Imho NO!
1.Reason is a well known daw ( recently more a VST!? ), while it has many users i think nobody really wants to argue that reason has less than some others like live or fl, aso. And maybe i´m wrong (cause we dont have reliable numbers), but in the last decade many users shifted to another daw hence the Sequencer and its missing "features" just to make one example. Many dont have a "need" for the subscription because with 11 they "bought out" themselfs and can use their Rack Extensions in other DAWs. Or they are gone "long time ago".
(Now some "consultants" come in and say THAT is the point we need a subscription, because of the "less" users.)

2. If they go subscription they will loose even more users, like already mentioned........ just take a look at adobe.

3. Look how they are handling the "User-Experience", for example the fresh "all-tickets-closed" execution and/or not fixing known bugs in their devices. Thats absolutley no good starting point for Saas. (Not only for Saas)


- Whats this bul**hit with the different prices in the shop? Maybe there is a good reason (no pun) for that, we users would just like to know.
Yeah, im reffering to the (nearly not existing) community communication. Did you notice that there was no mention for the last "you reason to stay inside" episode ? Why? When someone is here, it´s mostly for marketing ( btw:a good "cummunity-hub" would be the best marketing) --- ok, there was a confirmation from matthias that they are working on the HiRes-Gui, but on the other side...how long are "we" asking for that ? (Not mentioning that it´s the only daw with that "issue" ). And i could go further..... but will stop here.


- Will there be a new DAW from RS ? Because of "legacycode" and new tech (arm)? Will it still be called Reason ( - Reloaded / TWreasOn )? Than why change the name to Reason Studios ? Or will they "just" cut the old Programm off and "Reason 12 (or 13 or 14)" will be a completely new APP ? Will the new one be subscription only ? (of course, allowing REs to be used. )


While writing that i still have in mind that behringer is up to getting a proper daw - Which will be free !!! Yeah, we dont know if it will be "usable" but none the less- FREE !!!

So why in the world should i (we) go subscription ? But the "industry" will force us i believe ! Time will show.

[guitfnky]

yes, and we’ve been doing that since the original PUF, and the vast majority of time we have, and will likely continue to get it wrong.

Just wanted to say that I agree with you. I feel like the discussions in this forum are always the same. People who are fed up with the direction of Reason are posting and the others don't care to post. Predictions have been false in the past and from what I've seen from the years on the internet this holds true for many of the speculations. This is not to say that people are stupid but if you make 100 guesses maybe one of them is correct so the chance of success is low by nature. You can interpret hints all you want but I don't think it works as well as it seems.

totally. I don’t think such predictions say anything about people’s intellectual capacity, it’s just that we’re all basing our speculation on an incredibly limited set of information, so it’s super hard to make accurate guesses. we have *far* less information than the company has available, so predictions that seem perfectly rational based on the small public sliver of the whole picture just wouldn’t seem likely if we had all the same info RS has.

it’s fun to think about this stuff, and see what people think will happen. just take all this speculation with a huge grain of salt, and never hold your breath, or you’ll end up dead.

[QVprod]

Before we get too scared, there is already a DAW with a subscription model, Pro Tools, and it's actually not bad. If RS were to go that route, I doubt they would do something that is a worse model for consumers. While they can be slack on putting things in place, whenever they add something that's been done before, it's generally done very well and in a unique way.

I was shocked too with the Autotune RE. But I don't think that's gonna be the norm. Since we're speculating, Reason 6 was the big transformation. Maybe 12 will be the next?

[MarkTarlton]

I will not be joining a subscription model. I will be sad if this happens since I joined the cult with Reason version 2, but have no problems using something else.

[Chi-Individual]

Reason Rack plug-in is now free on Plugin Boutique with a purchase. It looks like Reason Lite but it's still a free intro to the platform. https://www.pluginboutique.com/articles/1613
Looks like they're trying to make moves to get more people on board.