Using filters to split signal

[kooshan]

So we have stereo image in Reason to split a signal to different frequency bands which will sum up correctly to the original sound before splitting .Could I use several ecf-filters (or Thor filters) in a combinator to do such thing instead of stereo imager? I would like to do that to splitt with a steeper curve than 12 db... and ofcourse I definately want to use stock devices , not Re’s or Vst’s

[Loque]

I think this will introduce a lot of phasing issues...

[Murf]

I think this will introduce a lot of phasing issues...

Agreed

[Jackjackdaw]

There is a free frequency splitter by redrock sound, lets you put different fx on 3 bands.

Edit: Oh, you want stock... sorry

[WasteLand]

unfiltered audio has the yoko band-splitter. i don't own it. i own all unfitered audio vst plugins, including triad, that uses same (or similar) approach (a little different..).
phasing issues can be a problem, but they state, mostly inaudible. with triad i don't get phasing issues, for example.
EDIT: steepest slope is 72 dB.. although 48 dB is most of times enough. but that depends, on what you want. so you can the slope.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -splitter/

[Electric-Metal]

Even though you said no RE, I highly recommend this one.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -splitter/

[kooshan]

Thanks everyone !
So that means by using normal filters (like the ones in thor or the good old ecf filter) no good results will happen? What I thought was maybe that could be possible by using several filters in band pass mode....

[Murf]

Thanks everyone !
So that means by using normal filters (like the ones in thor or the good old ecf filter) no good results will happen? What I thought was maybe that could be possible by using several filters in band pass mode....

You can always try!

[WasteLand]

Thanks everyone !
So that means by using normal filters (like the ones in thor or the good old ecf filter) no good results will happen? What I thought was maybe that could be possible by using several filters in band pass mode....

i tried that in voltage modular. it works. maybe because how i work, phasing issues aren't that important... or i use them...

it depends on the source.

o the elements splitter is free. nice one, electric metal!

try it, as Murf says. and phasing issues, because you in way use an eq, are always a "problem", but i have the feeling that it sometimes exaggareted (not the right spelling, sorry), for marketing purposes.
and, i repeat, it depends on the source. and how it sounds afterwards.

as i said with band pass filters you can do it, it works, in voltage modular i now also have multiband splitter, so..

meldaproduction is known for it's MB versions of the plugins.

so trust your ears (or a phase anaylyzer.....)

o you want only to use stock devices (i see RE's also as stock devices, me thinks...). band pass! yes! works.

[selig]

Thanks everyone !
So that means by using normal filters (like the ones in thor or the good old ecf filter) no good results will happen? What I thought was maybe that could be possible by using several filters in band pass mode....

What you need for that job is "complimentary filters", used to build crossovers. That is to say, when recombined they are flat. Often one is derived from the other insuring a perfect "fit" (HP can be created by subtracting LP from original signal, but won't always recombine to "flat" in all cases, depending on the filter type and slope).
But even complimentary filters won't recombine if you have them too close to each other when creating bands with multiple complimentary filters (such as using 2 or more Stereo Imagers).
And the more bands the steeper the curves must be, which means more phase shift and more difficult to recombine perfectly.

The issue with band pass filters is even if you can get them to recombine perfectly, you cannot move them around to be centered on any particular frequency. So if the frequency range you're interested in falls between two filters, there's nothing you can do except to adjust ALL filters up/dow which may leave a gap at the top or bottom. This is why a series of crossovers had been the way to do this sort of work for years, from building multi-driver speakers, to creating multi-band limiters for broadcast, and up to the preset day "multi-band" devices, the basic idea always being to not add any unnecessary or undesirable coloration in the process of adding the desired processing.

[selig]

Thanks everyone !
So that means by using normal filters (like the ones in thor or the good old ecf filter) no good results will happen? What I thought was maybe that could be possible by using several filters in band pass mode....

i tried that in voltage modular. it works. maybe because how i work, phasing issues aren't that important... or i use them...

it depends on the source.

o the elements splitter is free. nice one, electric metal!

try it, as Murf says. and phasing issues, because you in way use an eq, are always a "problem", but i have the feeling that it sometimes exaggareted (not the right spelling, sorry), for marketing purposes.
and, i repeat, it depends on the source. and how it sounds afterwards.

as i said with band pass filters you can do it, it works, in voltage modular i now also have multiband splitter, so..

meldaproduction is known for it's MB versions of the plugins.

so trust your ears (or a phase anaylyzer.....)

o you want only to use stock devices (i see RE's also as stock devices, me thinks...). band pass! yes! works.

It's really nothing to do with "phasing", it's because you don't end up with a flat response even before you add any actual processing. You end up with peaks and dips across the area where the filters overlap, and this colors the sound in ways you cannot control.
So yes, you CAN split the spectrum with any filter, it just won't be flat and will introduce changes beyond those that are intended. While this might "work" on a synth patch, if you run your entire mix through such a setup you are more likely to notice the artifacts introduced by the non-complimentary filters used.

[EdGrip]

Even though you said no RE, I highly recommend this one.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -splitter/

Yep - this is the one to use. Read the manual.

[selig]

Even though you said no RE, I highly recommend this one.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -splitter/

Yep - this is the one to use. Read the manual.

That's a good one, perfectly flat at all settings unless you make changes - just beware the "Pan" knob is really a "balance" control, meaning for example if you run a drum kit through it and the hi hat is panned left, panning to the right will simply turn down the left channel instead of actually "panning" it to the right as one might expect.
Also, the Reason SDK doesn't allow controls to be aware of each other - ideally the crossovers should have a bumper of sorts so they cannot ever be more than 1 octave (or similar) from each other.

[Electric-Metal]

^^This is why I Love this guy

[Jackjackdaw]

Even though you said no RE, I highly recommend this one.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -splitter/

Yep - this is the one to use. Read the manual.

Thats the one i meant earlier! forgot the name of it. (and maker!)

To the OP. I tried doing what you mention once. You can make parellel mixer channels and filter out the bands and put fx on each channel. Then I discovered the splitter mentioned here. It's much better!

[EdGrip]

Yep - this is the one to use. Read the manual.

That's a good one, perfectly flat at all settings unless you make changes - just beware the "Pan" knob is really a "balance" control, meaning for example if you run a drum kit through it and the hi hat is panned left, panning to the right will simply turn down the left channel instead of actually "panning" it to the right as one might expect.
Also, the Reason SDK doesn't allow controls to be aware of each other - ideally the crossovers should have a bumper of sorts so they cannot ever be more than 1 octave (or similar) from each other.

Did you mean "cannot ever be LESS than one octave from each other"? It's just earlier you said having the crossovers too near to each other causes problems.

[selig]

That's a good one, perfectly flat at all settings unless you make changes - just beware the "Pan" knob is really a "balance" control, meaning for example if you run a drum kit through it and the hi hat is panned left, panning to the right will simply turn down the left channel instead of actually "panning" it to the right as one might expect.
Also, the Reason SDK doesn't allow controls to be aware of each other - ideally the crossovers should have a bumper of sorts so they cannot ever be more than 1 octave (or similar) from each other.

Did you mean "cannot ever be LESS than one octave from each other"? It's just earlier you said having the crossovers too near to each other causes problems.

It's official - I'm getting old - yes, I meant LESS than one octave, with is a somewhat arbitrary value used as an example.

[kooshan]

Thanks everyone !
So that means by using normal filters (like the ones in thor or the good old ecf filter) no good results will happen? What I thought was maybe that could be possible by using several filters in band pass mode....

What you need for that job is "complimentary filters", used to build crossovers. That is to say, when recombined they are flat. Often one is derived from the other insuring a perfect "fit" (HP can be created by subtracting LP from original signal, but won't always recombine to "flat" in all cases, depending on the filter type and slope).
But even complimentary filters won't recombine if you have them too close to each other when creating bands with multiple complimentary filters (such as using 2 or more Stereo Imagers).
And the more bands the steeper the curves must be, which means more phase shift and more difficult to recombine perfectly.

The issue with band pass filters is even if you can get them to recombine perfectly, you cannot move them around to be centered on any particular frequency. So if the frequency range you're interested in falls between two filters, there's nothing you can do except to adjust ALL filters up/dow which may leave a gap at the top or bottom. This is why a series of crossovers had been the way to do this sort of work for years, from building multi-driver speakers, to creating multi-band limiters for broadcast, and up to the preset day "multi-band" devices, the basic idea always being to not add any unnecessary or undesirable coloration in the process of adding the desired processing.

Thank you so much selig

[Arjanders]

Even though you said no RE, I highly recommend this one.
https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... -splitter/

Yep - this is the one to use. Read the manual.

Do you have a copy of the manual? On the website it's gone.