3D-rack: won't happen in any forseeable future

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jam-s
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Post 07 Jun 2020

If anyone of you is still hoping to see the Reason rack go to a full 3D rendering mode in a future update you should read this:

https://developer.reasonstudios.com/doc ... _sdk_4_2_0
What’s new in SDK 4.2.0?
* 3D GUI support has been deprecated
* ...
Essentially this was clear as soon as 3D assets were no longer required to build a RE, but that update to the SDK makes it clear that there are absolutely no plans to endeavour deeper into 3D rendering the rack.

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Loque
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Post 07 Jun 2020

I think this idea was 40 years too far in the future.
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Heater
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Post 07 Jun 2020

We would have had a lot more third party racks if they didn’t use that process.

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Loque
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Heater wrote:
07 Jun 2020
We would have had a lot more third party racks if they didn’t use that process.
Maybe...but the weird thing is, most devs out there create 3D realistic UIs (aka skeuomorphism)...
Reason12, Win10

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bxbrkrz
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Post 07 Jun 2020

I would still keep a 3D backup, just in case a future RS team change their mind, with tech becoming cheaper/easier/more powerful/more everything

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Loque
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Post 07 Jun 2020

While i think of it...a 3D model has lots of advantages...VR, 3D printing, maybe AR...But who knows, maybe we will see different approaches in the future like a direct brain interface, so i finally can easily synthesize the sounds in my head.
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bxbrkrz
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Then no need for 4K compatibility.
Although I don't know what is our eyes/mind graphic resolution. Are they gonna bypass the optic nerve and go for a direct brain tap?
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buddard
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Post 07 Jun 2020

The 3D rack was doomed already when 2D GUIs were introduced in SDK 2.2. If not all devices have a 3D GUI definition, you can never represent the whole rack in 3D.

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selig
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Loque wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Heater wrote:
07 Jun 2020
We would have had a lot more third party racks if they didn’t use that process.
Maybe...but the weird thing is, most devs out there create 3D realistic UIs (aka skeuomorphism)...
And I'll add the 3D design process was actually more logical to my mind than the 2D, which is more abstract. In the 3D world you build the exact object and all lighting/shadows/depth etc. are automatically calculated. In the 2D world, you create any shadow you want (or no shadows at all), and all indications of depth are pure illusion and must be constructed by the maker based on knowledge of perspective etc.
I also appreciated the old "scene graph" approach to organization - but alas, that is all ancient history now, and I've fully embraced the 2D approach (and not a moment too soon!).
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Goriila Texas
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Doesn't surprise me one bit RS has quit or dropped the ball on platform that they develop.






They're quitters that's all they do!

Recycle
Balance
Record
Rewire
Allihoopla

Re IS next in years to come you heard it here first!
Last edited by Goriila Texas on 07 Jun 2020, edited 1 time in total.

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Loque
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Goriila Texas wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Doesn't surprise me one bit RS has quit or dropped the ball on platform that they develop.






They're quitters that's all they do!

Recycle
Balance
Record
Rewire
Allihoopla

Re IS next in years to come you heard it hear first!
Dropping things is not always a bad idea. ReBirth was a bad drop IMO, but now i have ABL3 which is good, but still does not sound like a real 303 (and ReBirth didnt either). The rest of your list is not missed 1 second from my side and just consumed too much resources in the past.
Reason12, Win10

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selig
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Loque wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Dropping things is not always a bad idea. ReBirth was a bad drop IMO, but now i have ABL3 which is good, but still does not sound like a real 303 (and ReBirth didnt either). The rest of your list is not missed 1 second from my side and just consumed too much resources in the past.
Exactly my thoughts.
BTW, no software or hardware is supported forever, Recycle is still working fine on my system and is for sale in the shop, Recored is fully integrated into Reason (for the better), Allihoopa was an odd idea in the first place (and was dropped by a separate company after it was spun off), and wasn't ReBirth dropped because Roland threatened? Anyway, of all of those, ReWire is the only thing that has actually been dropped (but I'm not going to miss it), but again nothing lasts forever - there are many music software companies that are not even around after 25 years, so at least they've done THAT right! ;)

And FWIW, Reason is the ONLY software I've ever owned were I can still load files from almost 20 years ago and they play PERFECTLY.
Selig Audio, LLC

Goriila Texas
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Post 07 Jun 2020

I'm surprised you're not a little nervous being that you are a dev that makes Re's. Recycle hasn't been updated in years though and still isn't a vst editor which is crazy imo.



selig wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Loque wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Dropping things is not always a bad idea. ReBirth was a bad drop IMO, but now i have ABL3 which is good, but still does not sound like a real 303 (and ReBirth didnt either). The rest of your list is not missed 1 second from my side and just consumed too much resources in the past.
Exactly my thoughts.
BTW, no software or hardware is supported forever, Recycle is still working fine on my system and is for sale in the shop, Recored is fully integrated into Reason (for the better), Allihoopa was an odd idea in the first place (and was dropped by a separate company after it was spun off), and wasn't ReBirth dropped because Roland threatened? Anyway, of all of those, ReWire is the only thing that has actually been dropped (but I'm not going to miss it), but again nothing lasts forever - there are many music software companies that are not even around after 25 years, so at least they've done THAT right! ;)

And FWIW, Reason is the ONLY software I've ever owned were I can still load files from almost 20 years ago and they play PERFECTLY.

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joeyluck
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Goriila Texas wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Recycle hasn't been updated in years though and still isn't a vst editor which is crazy imo.
Well so much of ReCyle's features can be found in Reason now. Even Reason Intro for $99 has slice edit and bounce to rex file. All Reason needs IMO is the sensitivity slider and ReCycle can be ReTired :puf_smile:

Today, I personally would recommend Reason Intro to my friends before ReCycle. For the same price, they can create rex loops with it...and they get so many great instruments, effects, players, the RRP, and a pretty capable DAW too if they want to use it.

Hoping we see that sensitivity slider at some point.

Goriila Texas
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Post 07 Jun 2020

The recycled features in Reason a watered down compared to the full ReCycle app. For one as you mentioned sensitivity slider is huge flaw of Reason's version,but features like tempo detection and the stretch in the envelope section that let's you go all the way down to 20 bpm and sound good with no artifacts are gold. I've switch back to Recycle because of the ease of finding tempo which is hugh for those who use loops. The only thing it's missing key detection and auto note detection like Grain.



joeyluck wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Goriila Texas wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Recycle hasn't been updated in years though and still isn't a vst editor which is crazy imo.
Well so much of ReCyle's features can be found in Reason now. Even Reason Intro for $99 has slice edit and bounce to rex file. All Reason needs IMO is the sensitivity slider and ReCycle can be ReTired :puf_smile:

Today, I personally would recommend Reason Intro to my friends before ReCycle. For the same price, they can create rex loops with it...and they get so many great instruments, effects, players, the RRP, and a pretty capable DAW too if they want to use it.

Hoping we see that sensitivity slider at some point.

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Murf
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Post 07 Jun 2020

selig wrote:
07 Jun 2020
And I'll add the 3D design process was actually more logical to my mind than the 2D, which is more abstract. In the 3D world you build the exact object and all lighting/shadows/depth etc. are automatically calculated. In the 2D world, you create any shadow you want (or no shadows at all), and all indications of depth are pure illusion and must be constructed by the maker based on knowledge of perspective etc.
I also appreciated the old "scene graph" approach to organization - but alas, that is all ancient history now, and I've fully embraced the 2D approach (and not a moment too soon!).
There is nothing to stop a RE dev from doing a full 3D design for the front panel and controls in something like Blender and rendering it all down to 2D assets to achieve a similar result as to what the old 3D process produced.

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selig
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Goriila Texas wrote:
07 Jun 2020
I'm surprised you're not a little nervous being that you are a dev that makes Re's. Recycle hasn't been updated in years though and still isn't a vst editor which is crazy imo.
Why would I be worried as an RE dev because ReCycle hasn't been updated in years (or did you mean something else)? I'm not worried about anything other than what i've always been worried about with Reason, basically that it's not moving forward as fast as I'd like. I have no concerns about the things that have changed or been given less attention over the years. I'm still working on new products and still moving forward (and 100% still making lots of music with Reason), but will always have things I wish were different, naturally.
Selig Audio, LLC

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selig
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Goriila Texas wrote:
07 Jun 2020
The recycled features in Reason a watered down compared to the full ReCycle app. For one as you mentioned sensitivity slider is huge flaw of Reason's version,but features like tempo detection and the stretch in the envelope section that let's you go all the way down to 20 bpm and sound good with no artifacts are gold. I've switch back to Recycle because of the ease of finding tempo which is hugh for those who use loops. The only thing it's missing key detection and auto note detection like Grain.
I feel pretty much the same, wish they had expanded on the built in REX features in Reason over the years - then we could dump ReCycle completely.
Selig Audio, LLC

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rgdaniel
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Post 07 Jun 2020

selig wrote:
07 Jun 2020
I feel pretty much the same, wish they had expanded on the built in REX features in Reason over the years - then we could dump ReCycle completely.
Maybe that's why they haven't? ... [/conspiracy theory] :puf_smile:

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zoidkirb
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Goriila Texas wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Doesn't surprise me one bit RS has quit or dropped the ball on platform that they develop.






They're quitters that's all they do!

Recycle
Balance
Record
Rewire
Allihoopla

Re IS next in years to come you heard it here first!
Hey at least we still have being able to run RE's out of our internet enabled fridges and toasters to look forward to, right?

Goriila Texas
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Location: Houston TX

Post 07 Jun 2020

:lol:

zoidkirb wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Goriila Texas wrote:
07 Jun 2020
Doesn't surprise me one bit RS has quit or dropped the ball on platform that they develop.






They're quitters that's all they do!

Recycle
Balance
Record
Rewire
Allihoopla

Re IS next in years to come you heard it here first!
Hey at least we still have being able to run RE's out of our internet enabled fridges and toasters to look forward to, right?

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Oquasec
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Post 07 Jun 2020

Buying my ignition key that's for sure
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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Seckin
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Post 08 Jun 2020

Good call!

If I want to play a 3D game and not make music, I'll go buy a 3D game and play a 3D game.

From a music-making-oriented perspective, on the other hand, 3D racks are a fantasy and nothing else if you ask me.
A waste of precious system resources, that's all. A distraction, that's all. Who even needs that? What would be next? Digital thermometers as effects devices so you could sense how "warm" various EQs actually sound so you could make your pick?

My eyes do not have the sense of hearing, so I want to keep their involvement in my music making process to a bare minimum. That certainly does not include, and will never include looking at fancy 3D eye candies of knobs and buttons. Heck, I even close my eyes every single time I turn a knob!
Last edited by Seckin on 08 Jun 2020, edited 4 times in total.
If you can't make a hit with Malstrom, Subtractor and Redrum, you can't make a hit at all.

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EnochLight
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Post 08 Jun 2020

I never had any illusions that we'd see a 3D rack in Reason. I think 3D in film is a stupid gimmick (@James Cameron, just stop - PLEASE. Don't make us sit through another 3 Avatar sequels in 3D)!!! :shock: :o :lol: :lol: :lol:

I get what Propellerhead were trying to do back in the day, but that was one line of "forward thinking" that was way out of place. I don't think anyone planned to use Reason on their Oculus. Hell, if a proper Half-Life sequel couldn't make me buy an Oculus, I know 3D Reason wouldn't. :puf_bigsmile: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Heater
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Post 08 Jun 2020

What I don’t understand about the 3D approach is why the gui wasn’t scalable. Surely that would have been one of the main benefits of using 3D.

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