Is Nektar Panorama good for programming synths?

[svenh]

Is Nektar Panorama still the best controller for programming synths in Reason?

When using Reason more actively, I used a Nektar Panorama P4 for programming synths like Thor and Antidote.

Now being able to use Reason as VST Rack, I have gotten interested in Reason sound design again. Is Nektar Panorama still a good option for programming synths? Are new synths still officially supported? (I am for instance currently interested in Resonans Physical Synthesizer on sale.) Or are there better options? I am thinking of a P1 this time since I don't need the midi keyboard.

Grateful for insights,
/Sven

[QVprod]

If the intent is to program from a controller, then yes. It's highly unlikely that there will be ever be a controller that surpasses the Panoramas in Reason control. **Keep in mind though, this only works in Reason standalone as it's reliant on Remote mapping. Other DAWs have their own control protocols so Panorama will not have any mapping for the plugin version.

[svenh]

**Keep in mind though, this only works in Reason standalone as it's reliant on Remote mapping. Other DAWs have their own control protocols so Panorama will not have any mapping for the plugin version.

Thanks for the warning QVprod. I suspected that this would be the case. This may be a good opportunity to separate sound design (done in the standalone version and saving them) from making songs (done in the VST rack in Ableton Live loading my patches there).

[BlkRd]

Nektar has released Nektarine, which is a vst wrapper availible for free. It claims to facilitate exactly what you are looking for, however i have yet to get it working smoothly, though I have had little time to set up and get my head around it. You can find the download on the Nektar site, in your Nektar account. I have been meaning to have a proper day of setting it all up and trying it, as it looks very promising!


From the Nektar site:

Nektarine is designed for use with Nektar products and currently supports:

Aura Nektarine Beat Controller
Panorama T4/T6 Keyboards
Panorama P1/P4/P6 running in Reason, Studio One and Bitwig (limited to control functionality)

https://nektartech.com/nektarine-help/

EDIT: Just searched the forum for keyword Nektarine and there is a lot of discussion on it. Im reading through it again now, probably lots of help and good insight in there. good luck



Peace

[enossified]

Now being able to use Reason as VST Rack, I have gotten interested in Reason sound design again. Is Nektar Panorama still a good option for programming synths?

The Panorama Reason integration doesn't work with the Rack plugin in any DAW.

For example, I have both R11 and Logic. When I open up the Rack plugin in Logic, Panorama sees it as just another third party AU plugin. Worse than that, since the Rack can have any number of instruments and effects loaded, to Panorama it's still just the Rack. Parameters for a Thor for example are in different order than the parameters for an NN-XT or a Combinator.

Basically an epic fail, but it's not Nektar's fault. I've experienced similar issues with Komplete Kontrol, too. Panorama cannot look inside a container plugin. Nektar support did tell me they were "looking into it" but I can't imagine they will have a solution any time soon.

A little more info here.

[svenh]

I can live with just using Panorama in Reason *as long as it works flawlessly there*. Is it fully working with most synths in Reason without any hassle? If I use it for sound design in Reason, I want to be able to fire up Reason, load a synth and start playing around immediately. I don't want to have to load configuration files, run additional scripts or debug anything not working.

Is the Panorama P series still active and supported? I see that they now have a T series too - is that one better?

[enossified]

Yes, if using it just to design sounds inside Reason that you will later use in the the Rack Plugin in another DAW, a Panorama P1 will work perfectly. Nektar has been very good at keeping their firmware up to date when new devices are released.

T series is not available without keys. The display is worse. Reportedly the pads are much better and the keyboard is better, too. It has fewer controls than P series.

[svenh]

Yes, if using it just to design sounds inside Reason that you will later use in the the Rack Plugin in another DAW, a Panorama P1 will work perfectly. Nektar has been very good at keeping their firmware up to date when new devices are released.

T series is not available without keys. The display is worse. Reportedly the pads are much better and the keyboard is better, too. It has fewer controls than P series.

OK, great! Thanks for taking the time!

/Sven

[gkillmaster]

How is Nektarine working now in 2022 with the P1? I'm trying to set it up for the first time.

[okaino]

Yes panorama is great for programming synths in reason! Theres no better option actually. I use a p1 and p4 together.

Ill add this to be super realistic with you about this though. The reason remote is a huge strength of reason that panorama plays into very well....the trick though is that to fully be able to take advantage of the reason remote youre going to have to understand building and modifying lua code.

This wont be as big of an issue if you have a coding background, but if u dont this can be issue that can be worked through, but i would describe it as everything, but easily done even with assistance.

IMO To take advantage of panorama and the reason remote i personally dont think you should settle for a mapping because thats as good as you can do. You have to make sure you get the mapping that you want and need to be effective.

When talking about synths with alot of menus this is easier said then done. But its very doable and there are alot of ways to do it within the remote map.

The most assistance you will get on remote mappings will come out of this forum. Nektar will not help you. Thats the only downside to programming synths to panorama.

Again im telling you it works great, but for me it took time to get it together.

Panaramas are rather cheap in price once i consider the time i spent modifying the code for the reason remote to even begin getting the mappings i wanted.

The lua coding isnt even complicated to be honest but if u dont understand coding well enough to even modify it and feel comfortable modifying its a moot point.

[gkillmaster]

Yes panorama is great for programming synths in reason! Theres no better option actually. I use a p1 and p4 together.

Ill add this to be super realistic with you about this though. The reason remote is a huge strength of reason that panorama plays into very well....the trick though is that to fully be able to take advantage of the reason remote youre going to have to understand building and modifying lua code.

This wont be as big of an issue if you have a coding background, but if u dont this can be issue that can be worked through, but i would describe it as everything, but easily done even with assistance.

IMO To take advantage of panorama and the reason remote i personally dont think you should settle for a mapping because thats as good as you can do. You have to make sure you get the mapping that you want and need to be effective.

When talking about synths with alot of menus this is easier said then done. But its very doable and there are alot of ways to do it within the remote map.

The most assistance you will get on remote mappings will come out of this forum. Nektar will not help you. Thats the only downside to programming synths to panorama.

Again im telling you it works great, but for me it took time to get it together.

Panaramas are rather cheap in price once i consider the time i spent modifying the code for the reason remote to even begin getting the mappings i wanted.

The lua coding isnt even complicated to be honest but if u dont understand coding well enough to even modify it and feel comfortable modifying its a moot point.

I really appreciate this! I spent a couple hours alone using Nektarine to map Plasmonic in Bitwig and it was actually fun and surprisingly made me have to dig into understanding Plasmonic more in order to make the most useful mapping. Hearing that I had to do some coding to be able to save my mappings on the P1 was disappointing but now I think I'm willing to give it a try. If you know of any videos offhand that go over this, that would be great. I think I saw one on Poohbear's youtube channel so I'm going to check that out now.

[gkillmaster]

The lua coding isnt even complicated to be honest but if u dont understand coding well enough to even modify it and feel comfortable modifying its a moot point.

So it would really help me to understand if my basic assumptions are correct. One being does the Panorama only access one map file at a time? In my case that file would be PanoramaP1.remotemap

My guess is that any new preset or individual map gets stored in this file and the permanently save a mapping it needs to be added to this file?

Also, when I make a "grab map", can I save it internally to the P1 or do I have to re-make it every time I reopen my DAW?

Thanks for any tips on this (if you have the time!)

[okaino]

The lua coding isnt even complicated to be honest but if u dont understand coding well enough to even modify it and feel comfortable modifying its a moot point.

So it would really help me to understand if my basic assumptions are correct. One being does the Panorama only access one map file at a time? In my case that file would be PanoramaP1.remotemap

My guess is that any new preset or individual map gets stored in this file and the permanently save a mapping it needs to be added to this file?

Also, when I make a "grab map", can I save it internally to the P1 or do I have to re-make it every time I reopen my DAW?

Thanks for any tips on this (if you have the time!)

Yes, so panorama sees the single remote file, but you store the individual remote mappings within the remote file. You just keep updating it really. Each remote option within the file is defined by the scope.

In translation it doesnt matter what order you have the mappings once you have a rack device mapped panorama will read it once it becomes focused on the seq track automatically or if u lock panoramas focus to a specific rack device.

Im not 100% on the grab maps i dont use them... Do realize grab maps were implemented as a way to get around having to modify the actual code.

So its a short sighted solution IMO. The grab maps should reset on every new project file opened, but i would want to believe the settings should stay the same within any saved project file....i could be wrong.

[gkillmaster]

So it would really help me to understand if my basic assumptions are correct. One being does the Panorama only access one map file at a time? In my case that file would be PanoramaP1.remotemap

My guess is that any new preset or individual map gets stored in this file and the permanently save a mapping it needs to be added to this file?

Also, when I make a "grab map", can I save it internally to the P1 or do I have to re-make it every time I reopen my DAW?

Thanks for any tips on this (if you have the time!)

Yes, so panorama sees the single remote file, but you store the individual remote mappings within the remote file. You just keep updating it really. Each remote option within the file is defined by the scope.

In translation it doesnt matter what order you have the mappings once you have a rack device mapped panorama will read it once it becomes focused on the seq track automatically or if u lock panoramas focus to a specific rack device.

Im not 100% on the grab maps i dont use them... Do realize grab maps were implemented as a way to get around having to modify the actual code.

So its a short sighted solution IMO. The grab maps should reset on every new project file opened, but i would want to believe the settings should stay the same within any saved project file....i could be wrong.

Thank you! I'll do some tests and see if I can verify the project save question.

[okaino]

Yes panorama is great for programming synths in reason! Theres no better option actually. I use a p1 and p4 together.

Ill add this to be super realistic with you about this though. The reason remote is a huge strength of reason that panorama plays into very well....the trick though is that to fully be able to take advantage of the reason remote youre going to have to understand building and modifying lua code.

This wont be as big of an issue if you have a coding background, but if u dont this can be issue that can be worked through, but i would describe it as everything, but easily done even with assistance.

IMO To take advantage of panorama and the reason remote i personally dont think you should settle for a mapping because thats as good as you can do. You have to make sure you get the mapping that you want and need to be effective.

When talking about synths with alot of menus this is easier said then done. But its very doable and there are alot of ways to do it within the remote map.

The most assistance you will get on remote mappings will come out of this forum. Nektar will not help you. Thats the only downside to programming synths to panorama.

Again im telling you it works great, but for me it took time to get it together.

Panaramas are rather cheap in price once i consider the time i spent modifying the code for the reason remote to even begin getting the mappings i wanted.

The lua coding isnt even complicated to be honest but if u dont understand coding well enough to even modify it and feel comfortable modifying its a moot point.

I really appreciate this! I spent a couple hours alone using Nektarine to map Plasmonic in Bitwig and it was actually fun and surprisingly made me have to dig into understanding Plasmonic more in order to make the most useful mapping. Hearing that I had to do some coding to be able to save my mappings on the P1 was disappointing but now I think I'm willing to give it a try. If you know of any videos offhand that go over this, that would be great. I think I saw one on Poohbear's youtube channel so I'm going to check that out now.

look through these to see if anything sparks.

Let me know

[gkillmaster]

Let me know

Very much appreciated. Going to watch these now. I will post back if I find out anything enlightening

[gkillmaster]

Let me know

First and last videos were the easiest for me to follow. First one a little more cause I'm on Mac but both have useful information.
I tried a test in Reason and it is the case that the grab maps don't work outside a session for me. Even if you save the Reason file and
reopen, the assignments disappear.

I think I'm going to make a project out of mapping Algoritm to learn more. Should be pretty challenging.

[okaino]

Let me know

First and last videos were the easiest for me to follow. First one a little more cause I'm on Mac but both have useful information.
I tried a test in Reason and it is the case that the grab maps don't work outside a session for me. Even if you save the Reason file and
reopen, the assignments disappear.

I think I'm going to make a project out of mapping Algoritm to learn more. Should be pretty challenging.

Give it a try. Keep hitting this post with updates.

[gkillmaster]

First and last videos were the easiest for me to follow. First one a little more cause I'm on Mac but both have useful information.
I tried a test in Reason and it is the case that the grab maps don't work outside a session for me. Even if you save the Reason file and
reopen, the assignments disappear.

I think I'm going to make a project out of mapping Algoritm to learn more. Should be pretty challenging.

Give it a try. Keep hitting this post with updates.

Ok, well, I tried it with Algoritm and can make very rudimentary assignments but when I looked at Carley's Friktion map, I realize just how deep and complex it it. I'm not sure I even have a brain to learn it and I definitely don't have the the time. I think I'm going to stick to using Nektarine and the Reason remote mappings Carley has already made. Going to try and make a Nektarine map for Algoritm. That interface seems a lot more doable for me. It really makes me appreciate what a huge gift all those Poohbear mappings are! Had no idea.

EDIT: ok, just relized I can't map Reason REs in Nektarine. O well, I'll probably do a simple map that has the main controls I want to tweak for Algoritm.

[okaino]

Give it a try. Keep hitting this post with updates.

Ok, well, I tried it with Algoritm and can make very rudimentary assignments but when I looked at Carley's Friktion map, I realize just how deep and complex it it. I'm not sure I even have a brain to learn it and I definitely don't have the the time. I think I'm going to stick to using Nektarine and the Reason remote mappings Carley has already made. Going to try and make a Nektarine map for Algoritm. That interface seems a lot more doable for me. It really makes me appreciate what a huge gift all those Poohbear mappings are! Had no idea.

EDIT: ok, just relized I can't map Reason REs in Nektarine. O well, I'll probably do a simple map that has the main controls I want to tweak for Algoritm.

[gkillmaster]

Ok, well, I tried it with Algoritm and can make very rudimentary assignments but when I looked at Carley's Friktion map, I realize just how deep and complex it it. I'm not sure I even have a brain to learn it and I definitely don't have the the time. I think I'm going to stick to using Nektarine and the Reason remote mappings Carley has already made. Going to try and make a Nektarine map for Algoritm. That interface seems a lot more doable for me. It really makes me appreciate what a huge gift all those Poohbear mappings are! Had no idea.

EDIT: ok, just relized I can't map Reason REs in Nektarine. O well, I'll probably do a simple map that has the main controls I want to tweak for Algoritm.

?

[enossified]

How is Nektarine working now in 2022 with the P1? I'm trying to set it up for the first time.

When I look in my Nektar P6 account, I don't see any recent updates to Nektarine. 2.0.36 is the latest rev available for both Mac and Windows, dated Nov 2020. So no changes for a little over a year.

The automatic patch import feature doesn't work for AUs on the Mac, only VSTs. The good news for Mac users is that you can run VSTs inside the Nektarine AU.

[okaino]

Give it a try. Keep hitting this post with updates.

Ok, well, I tried it with Algoritm and can make very rudimentary assignments but when I looked at Carley's Friktion map, I realize just how deep and complex it it. I'm not sure I even have a brain to learn it and I definitely don't have the the time. I think I'm going to stick to using Nektarine and the Reason remote mappings Carley has already made. Going to try and make a Nektarine map for Algoritm. That interface seems a lot more doable for me. It really makes me appreciate what a huge gift all those Poohbear mappings are! Had no idea.

EDIT: ok, just relized I can't map Reason REs in Nektarine. O well, I'll probably do a simple map that has the main controls I want to tweak for Algoritm.

Dont know what happened to the text i wrote a lot too smh heres my 2nd try...

What I was saying is i personally thought that algorithm was going to be a tall task to map,but it wasnt my place to tell you what i thought would be difficult for you.

But since you acknowledged it one of the things Ive found with the panorama is to use it effectively you cant settle for a mapping. You have to keep striving after the best mapping possible for yourself.

To keep you confident ill say What the panorama is capable of facilitating through the remote map is outright remarkable for a midi controller. Im pretty sure the panorama is one of the very few and possibly only customizable controllers at this level.

In a previous comment on this thread i explained that the panorama is a low cost unit in theory ....because of the time youll spend on programming it.

The thing that sucks is the learning curve is pretty steep for most users to actually get in a position to where they can take full advantage of programming the remote map.

I got the p1 in 2018 with a ton of struggle, disappointment and frustration even with assistance im just now getting to a point where i can structure my maps how i want and ive by no mean mastered the mapping yet. But i understood the power enough to get the p4 because i a saw the potential of what could be.

Programming a synth on panorama imo is going to be one of the more complicated mappings because theres generally just more parameters to map. And just to program a synth isnt enough in theory its about actually programming a synth/device the way you want it and designing the workflow for it.

Only then can you take advantage of the panorama....if nektartech made that clear upfront they most likely wouldnt sell any units though.


With saying this I also dont see any clear way of making the process of mapping easier to understand and pick up either without having actual engagement with people who know what they are doing.

There was a guy who was trying to come up with software to assist in coding the remote maps im not sure he ever finished the project. I cant find his youtube videos anymore either where he was showing it.

The only project i know currently still in development is by John Sexton that assist with the remote map by speaking commands.

Both solutions that i mentioned where and are from the reasontalk community and that still leaves really only the reasontalk community as a resource for panorama which it has been!

Poohbear and other have been huge in getting out mappings and from that you can kind of reverse engineer mappings and get an understanding to a degree, but from my POV you cant really take advantage of panorama till you know how you want to map the remote map in a way that works best for you.

Its alot of trial an error. Its a very non musical process to get the panorama in order. For me its had highs and absolute frustration with the lows especially once u realize whats possible, but you may lack the insight of being able to program the change you want...but its 1000% worth it if u can get exactly what you want...for me it took alot of time just trying stuff out to find what i wanted.

But i think as a community there has to be a way we can explain and communicate it better.


The lua programming language is about as easy as coding is going to get. Having little to no information or experience with it begins as an intimidating task that is pretty consistent and understandable over time.

[gkillmaster]

...Its alot of trial an error. Its a very non musical process to get the panorama in order. For me its had highs and absolute frustration with the lows especially once u realize whats possible, but you may lack the insight of being able to program the change you want...but its 1000% worth it if u can get exactly what you want...for me it took alot of time just trying stuff out to find what i wanted.

But i think as a community there has to be a way we can explain and communicate it better.


The lua programming language is about as easy as coding is going to get. Having little to no information or experience with it begins as an intimidating task that is pretty consistent and understandable over time.

Thanks for the post. Yeh, I kinda reached a point where I realized that it's largely beyond my abilities or desire to go that far. I'm really happy use it as I can with the maps Poohbear has already made (and generously offered!) and using Nektarine. Seems like there is enough native Nektar support for this to be a great controller for the 2 DAWs I mainly use now, Bitwig (mostly) and Reason. So, for what it can do, I'm really happy with it. And I was able to get it for about $200. I don't like the feel of the faders but otherwise it's feels like a great unit and miles better than Komplete Kontrol and the Novation Nocturn back in the day.

[PitW.]

I am a little bit disappointed that Nektartech doesn't give the AURA the same level of Reason integration, but that is just due to my personal situation using this device with Reason.