Hi - Reason 11 + Ableton 10 Workflow question

[Dave Beep]

Hey all,

Looking just to check my understanding on something with people who know their stuff about Reason.

I've owned Reason since v2 and Ableton live since v4. Recently been on version 9 of both. Just upgraded to Reason 11 Suite, and about to upgrade to Ableton 10 as they dropped rewire and I need VST3 support, which isn't in Ableton 9.

The idea of having individual racks as VSTs in Ableton is great. But I am worried that dropping Rewire has broken a workflow that often worked well for me.

A frequent process for me would be to fire up Reason, mess around and create some ideas... sketch maybe a couple of synth parts and a rhythm loop, whatever. Then I would save it and fire up Abelton and Reason as a rewire slave, route things up and record different parts accross to Live, try out other parts and record things accross for further manipulation. Other times, I might be working on something in Ableton and then call up old Reason song files via rewire and record accross some additional parts.

I am sure there must be other people who worked like this?

So with no rewire, and the rack VST plugin being a separate beast to the main standalone program, is there no longer a simple way to link Reason projects to your main DAW? Because as much as I really like the idea of the rack VST, that kind of sucks.

[jam-s]

I think, ableton link for syncing is still supported by both programmes. This in combination with an audio loopback schould give a similar workflow as you had before.

[Dave Beep]

Sounds interesting, can you expand on how that would work in a bit more detail?

[jam-s]

Configure Reason to sync via link and start live then. Now both shoulkd keep playing in sync. Now you only have to get the audio from reason back into live to record it. This can work with hardware or software solutions.

[Dave Beep]

Yes if they sync I should be able to route via my audio interface's mixer. Bit of a faff but better than exporting stems. Will give it a go thanks.

[ShelLuser]

I've owned Reason since v2 and Ableton live since v4. Recently been on version 9 of both. Just upgraded to Reason 11 Suite, and about to upgrade to Ableton 10 as they dropped rewire and I need VST3 support, which isn't in Ableton 9.

Just for context... I've started with Live 8 & Reason 4 and I've been using this combination of Live + Reason (rewired) ever since Live 10 & Reason 10. But because I bought Reason 10 at the right time I got a freebie to enjoy 11.

The idea of having individual racks as VSTs in Ableton is great. But I am worried that dropping Rewire has broken a workflow that often worked well for me.

I felt the same thing and didn't want to have anything to do with Reason 11, especially when I discovered that tab didn't work. Until I discovered the Beat map player which intrigued me. I then gave the rack another try, discovered that tab now works as expected and well... I'm actually warming up to the whole thing.

Sure, it's not perfect. I dislike the expanded browser (I want icons, not almost half of my browser section being taken up by useless contents) but it does a decent job where functionality is concerned. Let's not forget that rewire isn't perfect either. While you can use Live to control multiple Reason devices (one per track) you're also going to have to set up a decent routing because otherwise things stop working again. Well, either that or you'll get multiple sources back across the same audio channels which can easily distort things.

And although I'm not sure I would like to think that Live will compensate itself when you load multiple instances of the same VST. But.. that's an educated guess on my end.

A frequent process for me would be to fire up Reason, mess around and create some ideas... sketch maybe a couple of synth parts and a rhythm loop, whatever. Then I would save it and fire up Abelton and Reason as a rewire slave, route things up and record different parts accross to Live, try out other parts and record things accross for further manipulation. Other times, I might be working on something in
Ableton and then call up old Reason song files via rewire and record accross some additional parts.

I am sure there must be other people who worked like this?

Yah, for nearly 9 or so years. Sorta.

For me Live sits at the heart of my setup, it's how I started and it's my main to-go-to DAW. But it has been Reason which enhanced my setup all this time. And it still does, though I did move away a bit from using Reason's sequencer and instead exchanged that for Maschine.

But context is key here... My Reason setup always started with a combinator (using a Live color scheme) and that was the main device I used to control from Live. When I needed or wanted more I'd use additional devices, but that didn't happen all too often. I do miss my "win-1" and "win-2" keypresses (to hop into Live and Reason (I normally use both maximized)) but on the other hand I'm also happy to have access to both Live's and Reasons interfaces at the same time.

And I don't feel to be missing out. Also because Live tends to save VST settings. So... I mess with Reason's rack in a testing environment, I save my Live set and when I load it again I can continue from where I left off. Better yet: I can now load the liveset without having to "worry" about Reason being active since Live will load the required VST's for me if needed.

Of course... as a result I've used Reason a lot less in a stand alone fashion, and that gives me mixed feelings. But... having gotten myself a Push last year also made me concentrate more on Push for my mixing instead of relying on Reason, and that also did a good job for me.

The rack isn't for everyone, I'm sure, but I also think it's something to give a fair chance and to just try and use it. It's not perfect, but for me the rack plugin is slowly becoming my #1 tool for general sound design.

So with no rewire, and the rack VST plugin being a separate beast to the main standalone program, is there no longer a simple way to link Reason projects to your main DAW? Because as much as I really like the idea of the rack VST, that kind of sucks.

Well, you can use Reason 10 and 11 side by side. Don't think you can have them active at the same time, but you can use both products back and forth. That's how I started

[Dave Beep]

So with no rewire, and the rack VST plugin being a separate beast to the main standalone program, is there no longer a simple way to link Reason projects to your main DAW? Because as much as I really like the idea of the rack VST, that kind of sucks.

Well, you can use Reason 10 and 11 side by side. Don't think you can have them active at the same time, but you can use both products back and forth. That's how I started

Thanks for reply.

To clarify in the above point, because it sounds perfect.

- Are reason song files created in Reason 11 compatible with Reason 10?
- Can I download Reason 10 and authorise it? (I can't see it to download on reason studios site) I never had 10, I jumped straight from 9 to 11.

[ShelLuser]

- Are reason song files created in Reason 11 compatible with Reason 10?

No.

It is possible that they'll load (which I sincerely doubt) but even then you need to take into consideration that Reason 11 has many more stock devices, which implies incompatibility. So short version: no.

- Can I download Reason 10 and authorise it? (I can't see it to download on reason studios site) I never had 10, I jumped straight from 9 to 11.

I think the trick is to find a legit Reason 10 installer, if you do then authorizing should not be a problem but please keep in mind that I am basing myself on theory (and my own observations) here.

Here's the thing... I started with 4 (with an option to use 5), upgraded to 6 then upgraded to 10 with an option to use 11. If I look at my product overview and in specific the "ignition key" option then something funny is up... On my license keys (both the software and the dongle which I still kept around) I have a Reason 11 license. Nothing more, nothing less: Reason 11. Yet I can still use Reason 10 without any issues.

So my theory is that you can use all prior Reason versions (or at least those which use the 'new' Codemeter protection), as long as you manage to find an installer.

[Dave Beep]

- Are reason song files created in Reason 11 compatible with Reason 10?

No.

It is possible that they'll load (which I sincerely doubt) but even then you need to take into consideration that Reason 11 has many more stock devices, which implies incompatibility. So short version: no.

That's what I though. Clutching at straws really.

I think the trick is to find a legit Reason 10 installer...

Found this (links to official downloads of latest update for all previous versions, back to Reason 1
https://www.reasonistas.com/i-use-reason

..... if you do then authorizing should not be a problem but please keep in mind that I am basing myself on theory (and my own observations) here.
Here's the thing... I started with 4 (with an option to use 5), upgraded to 6 then upgraded to 10 with an option to use 11. If I look at my product overview and in specific the "ignition key" option then something funny is up... On my license keys (both the software and the dongle which I still kept around) I have a Reason 11 license. Nothing more, nothing less: Reason 11. Yet I can still use Reason 10 without any issues.

So my theory is that you can use all prior Reason versions (or at least those which use the 'new' Codemeter protection), as long as you manage to find an installer.

Makes sense. My legit Reason History was 2.5(adapted) -> 2.5 -> 3 -> 5 -> 6 -> 6.5 -> 9 -> 11(suite)
Reason 3 came with an optional "Record" program which I bought at the time (this was before they put audio recording into Reason). So my account page shows:
Reason 11 Suite
Record 1.5
Reason 3.0

(side note: forum smilies doesn't have the up to date Reason logo)

[PhillipOrdonez]

He can still use the version of 9 he has with rewire. I don't think one can use a version of Reason one does not have license to. So no 10 for him.

[DaveyG]

We've had a few of these type of questions now and I can't help but think that RS should allow anyone who owns R11 to install and run R10 on the same PC. It would not cost them anything and would ensure that all up-to-date paying customers would have access to the last version that supported Rewire.

@OP, your only solution is to keep R9 installed alongside R11 and use R9 for your rewire stuff. You can transfer combinators from R11 to the rack as long as they don't contain VSTs but any accompanying midi track would need to be exported and loaded in your DAW. Not a great workflow.

Maybe the flagship feature of R12 will be the reintroduction of Rewire! After all, RS are the co-inventors of it.

[Dave Beep]

You can transfer combinators from R11 to the rack as long as they don't contain VSTs but any accompanying midi track would need to be exported and loaded in your DAW.Not a great workflow.

Yes I happened on this thought this morning, was wondering if I can drag and drop devices, then realised I could just combine them and save as Combinator patches, then load up in the VST3 rack. Not perfect but it's a partial solution.

I was really suprised they ditched rewire. Don't see why at all. This must be a either a barrier to upgrade or a real disappointment/issue to lots of people.

[QVprod]

You can transfer combinators from R11 to the rack as long as they don't contain VSTs but any accompanying midi track would need to be exported and loaded in your DAW.Not a great workflow.

Yes I happened on this thought this morning, was wondering if I can drag and drop devices, then realised I could just combine them and save as Combinator patches, then load up in the VST3 rack. Not perfect but it's a partial solution.

I was really suprised they ditched rewire. Don't see why at all. This must be a either a barrier to upgrade or a real disappointment/issue to lots of people.

For any songs you rewired, there wouldn't be any VSTs in the combinators so most things will transfer over fine. Takes some set up to get old songs adapted to the new system, but once you get started with doing new songs with the plugin you may like it better. Rewire was cumbersome for most people with the 2 save files and all the routing involved. It was old technology from before VST instruments were announced. I think it's understandable why they moved on from it, but I do believe though that there should have been a heads up that it was being phased out.