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advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 12 May 2020
by samsome
advantages of serum over Europa?
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 12 May 2020
by remo101
I love 'em both so I don't wanna "trash talk Europa", but a few things that come to mind are...
The biggest difference is that Serum has a full wavetable editor built in to it: You can import a sample just like with Europa, but you can then edit the resultant wavetable (add/delete frames, move them about etc). You can also draw wavetables from scratch or define them using mathematical equations.
The FX in Serum are really something special - they just sound great, and you can use it as an external FX unit applied to the output from another synth, so that's cool.
Serum offers some more detailed control of the oscillators in a lot of ways - most of which I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think it allows you to precisely control the oscillators wave-phase, which is not always useful, but when it's needed that level of control is a Godsend.
I think it's got more filter types, but then again it doesn't support a "Spectral Filter" (to my knowledge at least) like Europa.
Personally I find Europa can be more "playful" to work with, which is very inspiring at times, but if I wanna do precise detailed work then sometimes Serum is more appropriate. I often use Serum to build custom wavetables, then load them into Europa to make a patch and then pipe the output through a "Serum FX chain" .... so yeah: "it's all good" I would say and definitely worth having both of them!
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 12 May 2020
by samsome
remo101 wrote: ↑12 May 2020
I love 'em both so I don't wanna "trash talk Europa", but a few things that come to mind are...
The biggest difference is that Serum has a full wavetable editor built in to it: You can import a sample just like with Europa, but you can then edit the resultant wavetable (add/delete frames, move them about etc). You can also draw wavetables from scratch or define them using mathematical equations.
The FX in Serum are really something special - they just sound great, and you can use it as an external FX unit applied to the output from another synth, so that's cool.
Serum offers some more detailed control of the oscillators in a lot of ways - most of which I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think it allows you to precisely control the oscillators wave-phase, which is not always useful, but when it's needed that level of control is a Godsend.
I think it's got more filter types, but then again it doesn't support a "Spectral Filter" (to my knowledge at least) like Europa.
Personally I find Europa can be more "playful" to work with, which is very inspiring at times, but if I wanna do precise detailed work then sometimes Serum is more appropriate. I often use Serum to build custom wavetables, then load them into Europa to make a patch and then pipe the output through a "Serum FX chain" .... so yeah: "it's all good" I would say and definitely worth having both of them!
my my......you guys are on another level
can you please explain me why you need to build custom ones? the ones there not enough or??
i'm just trying to understand what i need to improve on
much appreciated
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 12 May 2020
by Oquasec
You can load serum wavetables in europa and expanse but I think only expanse lets you make custom wavetables.
There is also the tableosc RE that let's you make wavetables in realtime.
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 12 May 2020
by zoidkirb
Serum has drag and drop modulation, visualized modulation, and more mod options in general. Drawable LFO's are nice too. Serum has way more filter types and a more robust fx system. The wave shaping mods are great in Serum but I think Europa holds its own here.
Europa has that really nice harmonic section which sets it apart.
Both synths are amongst the easiest to learn, in terms of general synth concepts.
Someone else said and I agree, Europa feels more playful. I can't really explain that one. The true one page design might be part of it. Maybe it's honestly a little more limited in options but hits more sweet spots?
Europa is free for Reason users, which is a huge consideration for me, IMO Serum is a tad overpriced.
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 13 May 2020
by eXode
Serum also has great resampling capabilites. You can resample a warp (mod) to a wavetable (make a full wavetable from the warp sweep, based on the current table position), you can also resample the output to wavetable directly within Serum. You can tweak tables to something new completely, or build a complete table from just a basic waveform.
The Remap warp mode is great for twisting a wavetable.
These things might be more important to sound designers and content creators, so there might be limited appeal.
I do think the modulation system is better too, and I like the fact that noise is a separate module that allows you to load samples, so you can do some cool hybrid sounds by loading up i.e. a sampled saxophone and layering that with the main synth.
Also, Europa only loads one table. Serum loads one table per oscillator plus the previously mentioned mentioned noise sample.
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 13 May 2020
by WasteLand
i have weakness for small developers: vast dynamics vaporizer 2, that get updated a lot, the last period. it is an alternative for serum. wavetable editing, full. also from a sample. 4 osc. sampler, (granular or normal). etc.
the newest version has great features, and the development is still going on. lifetime updates as serum.
serum is problably the better one, right now, but the differences between them are getting smaller.
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 13 May 2020
by chimp_spanner
The biggest advantage for me is probably that it can do proper FM between oscillators (among other things) and its unison section is really lush. That said, I tend to find that a lot of my Serum patches come out sounding the same. Maybe that's just me! But Europa lends itself to a wider range of sounds IMO. Like some of the spectral filtering and harmonic processing can get you some really nice other-worldly sounds. So it's not an either/or thing for me. I just use both for different things!
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 13 May 2020
by scratchnsnifff
Europa is my favorite reason synth
Only downside is that it should sometime get oscillator FM between engines
Would be. Great feature to have In the mod matrix
Imagine having osc 3 be the modulator of an fm bass, and getting to use the spectral filter and harmonics engine + modifiers to be able to have an ever changing modulator
Please reason studios please make this happen in the mod matrix
Serum is just beast, it’s my favorite vst of all time. But it can take up a million times more cpu than Europa depending on oscillator quality and modulation
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 14 May 2020
by SebAudio
chimp_spanner wrote: ↑13 May 2020
I tend to find that a lot of my Serum patches come out sounding the same. Maybe that's just me! But Europa lends itself to a wider range of sounds IMO. Like some of the spectral filtering and harmonic processing can get you some really nice other-worldly sounds. So it's not an either/or thing for me. I just use both for different things!
I have the same problem with all of the wavetable synths I’ve tried : kind of digital harsh noises… the sounds I like are almost always the ones based on the « classic » wavetable or wavetables that mimic classic subtractive or additive modulations ! Perhaps I don’t get the trick with wavetable synthesis.
Nice thing with Europa is that it is a waveshaping synth that provides some wavetables. So a lot of other « waveform building » options. Regarding FM, 1 Europa osc can do some 4-op FM algorithms.
Re: advantages of serum over Europa?
Posted: 14 May 2020
by Jackjackdaw
SebAudio wrote: ↑14 May 2020
chimp_spanner wrote: ↑13 May 2020
I tend to find that a lot of my Serum patches come out sounding the same. Maybe that's just me! But Europa lends itself to a wider range of sounds IMO. Like some of the spectral filtering and harmonic processing can get you some really nice other-worldly sounds. So it's not an either/or thing for me. I just use both for different things!
I have the same problem with all of the wavetable synths I’ve tried : kind of digital harsh noises… the sounds I like are almost always the ones based on the « classic » wavetable or wavetables that mimic classic subtractive or additive modulations ! Perhaps I don’t get the trick with wavetable synthesis.
Nice thing with Europa is that it is a waveshaping synth that provides some wavetables. So a lot of other « waveform building » options. Regarding FM, 1 Europa osc can do some 4-op FM algorithms.
I agree, the simpler wavetables are often the most satisfying, it doesnt seem to pay off getting too snazzy with the wave shapes. But i love WT synths for the morphing and glitching between sounds. It can be subtle , doesnt have to be gnarly dubstep. I dont know anything about Serum but i have Halion which can create Wavetables. Good for resynthisis of samples but Grain is also excellent at this.