Can Combinator do this?

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fev
Posts: 9
Joined: 09 May 2020

Post 09 May 2020

Greetings tweakers and tinkers of reasontalk. I wonder if you can help with this?

I would like to be able to program a sample based combi so that if i press two keys at once it will trigger a different sample than if I press either key individually.

I'm trying to emulate a performance feature found on A list guitarist and also some vsts where playing a single note triggers a major chord but playing that note in conjunction with it's minor third will trigger a minor chord.

So I want to, for example:
Hit C to trigger my sample of a C major chord pattern
Hit Eb to trigger my sample of an Eb major (or D# major) chord pattern
But also hit C and Eb simultaneously to trigger my sample of a C minor chord pattern

Hope this makes sense.

My brain is hurting a little from trying to figure out a method.

Any ideas?

fev
Posts: 9
Joined: 09 May 2020

Post 22 May 2020

Gentle bump.

Maybe should have put this in tutorials/techniques section.

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Jackjackdaw
Posts: 557
Joined: 12 Jan 2019

Post 22 May 2020

I know how to do this.... In Halion 6 :-(

I would guess there must be some Re that can facilitate this.

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Oquasec
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Joined: 05 Mar 2017

Post 22 May 2020

I think NNXT can do that but it would prolly be a few hours of tutorials to come up with something like that
https://ibrelliancentral.bandcamp.com/
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selig
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Post 22 May 2020

Basically, you want an "AND" gate, where the output is "true" only if a AND b are true (a and b being the two notes).
Generally speaking, one way to do this would be to add two gates and make sure the results are only high enough when there are two inputs, such that when only one note is played the gate cv is below the gate threshold.
But you'll have to have both notes played before the sample will trigger, meaning if one note hits slightly before the other, you do not want trigger the first sample. That means you need to wait to see if two notes are played or not. With a rhythmic device this happens ahead of the beat because NO sample is played until the next beat hits - so even if you play one note ahead of the other (which almost always happens to some degree), the logic doesn't have to make the final decision until the actual beat hits.
But if you're talking about triggering samples immediately when a key is played, you'll have a difficult time. Let's say the first note comes 10 ms before the second, not uncommon. that would mean the "single" sample will be triggered for 10 ms until the second key arrives, in which case the alternate sample (double key sample) will be triggered. The only other option is to delay ANY sample for a pre determined amount of time before triggering ANY sample, which would mean a good bit of latency (not a good thing).

TL/DR: unless you are holding all gates until the next beat, like Dr OctaRex or A List Guitars, any system like this would be problematic and would require additional latency to work "cleanly".
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loopeydoug
Posts: 38
Joined: 11 Oct 2018

Post 22 May 2020

Off the top of my head, the closest I can think of is a build where you:

Hold key "1", get "1 major".

Hold key "2", get "2 major".

Hold key "0"&"1", get "1 minor".

Hold key "0"&"2", get "2 minor".

This build uses key "0" as a key switch to switch on/off devices in the combi, wherein device A is all major stuff and device B is all minor stuff.

Mich01
Posts: 81
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 22 May 2020

You can make key-switch setups using Thor as switching device using the two buttons and assign them to a key. Then route the buttons to cv out. With those cv-signals you switch on-off receive notes in your combinator.

Greetz Michel

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Jagwah
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Post 22 May 2020

There should be a 'You can do that with Thor' t-shirt.

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Chizmata
Posts: 529
Joined: 21 Dec 2015

Post 22 May 2020

fev wrote:
09 May 2020
Greetings tweakers and tinkers of reasontalk. I wonder if you can help with this?

I would like to be able to program a sample based combi so that if i press two keys at once it will trigger a different sample than if I press either key individually.

I'm trying to emulate a performance feature found on A list guitarist and also some vsts where playing a single note triggers a major chord but playing that note in conjunction with it's minor third will trigger a minor chord.

So I want to, for example:
Hit C to trigger my sample of a C major chord pattern
Hit Eb to trigger my sample of an Eb major (or D# major) chord pattern
But also hit C and Eb simultaneously to trigger my sample of a C minor chord pattern

Hope this makes sense.

My brain is hurting a little from trying to figure out a method.

Any ideas?
thor has a function in the mod matrix called polyphony. it will output different CV values depending on the number of keys pressed simultaneously, up to 6 keys. so maybe routing those cv values into a sampler is the point where you want to start fiddling. the combinator can also target different devices depending on input velocity, so using Thors polyphony cv as velocity value, you might trigger different devices depending on number of keys pressed.

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w1pl0c
Posts: 79
Joined: 10 Oct 2017

Post 22 May 2020

Look into AutoTheory by PitchBlende. You can modify chords with the sharps and flats.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... utotheory/
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fev
Posts: 9
Joined: 09 May 2020

Post 23 May 2020

Thanks everyone for all the replies.
selig wrote:
22 May 2020
Basically, you want an "AND" gate, where the output is "true" only if a AND b are true (a and b being the two notes).

But if you're talking about triggering samples immediately when a key is played, you'll have a difficult time.

TL/DR: unless you are holding all gates until the next beat, like Dr OctaRex or A List Guitars, any system like this would be problematic and would require additional latency to work "cleanly".
I'm thinking primarily of rhythmic material such as rex loops of choppy guitar chords so I think this is exactly what I'm after.

If I understand correctly you are saying to have a gate out from both A and B with a threshold setting that will only be reached when both are pressed?
loopeydoug wrote:
22 May 2020
Off the top of my head, the closest I can think of is a build where you:

Hold key "0"&"1", get "1 minor".

This build uses key "0" as a key switch to switch on/off devices in the combi, wherein device A is all major stuff and device B is all minor stuff.
Yeah, this is basically how I'm working it at the moment, using a key switch to change from my minor kong to my major kong.
Chizmata wrote:
22 May 2020

thor has a function in the mod matrix called polyphony. it will output different CV values depending on the number of keys pressed simultaneously, up to 6 keys. so maybe routing those cv values into a sampler is the point where you want to start fiddling. the combinator can also target different devices depending on input velocity, so using Thors polyphony cv as velocity value, you might trigger different devices depending on number of keys pressed.
I will definitely look into this. Thor's mod matrix is a fairly neglected corner of the rack for me!
w1pl0c wrote:
22 May 2020
Look into AutoTheory by PitchBlende. You can modify chords with the sharps and flats.

https://www.reasonstudios.com/shop/rack ... utotheory/
I'm not sure if I fully understand what this device does... It appears to be about programming chords from shifting individual midi notes rather than simply triggering samples of chords?

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