Do u use “blocks” in Reason?

[EdwardKiy]

Are you describing the adaptive Snap to Grid mode? Because when that is enabled, notes snap to the resolution in which you are zoomed, and new notes take the length of the grid's resolution. Then you just zoom in and out to change the resolution. "Grid" is the first option in that dropdown. Sorry for the confusion. Is that the method you are using?

Err, not exactly, was talking about snapping a whole clip to some other clip, but the idea is the same, yes - zooming in and out to match the grid's snap resolution.

I found a 3rd party workaround for this whole ordeal anyway, but ffs...

[EdwardKiy]

Man... so much stuff that you could have solved just for using the stuff that's already there in the sequencer...

1 - You can move clips in the midi editor window, each clip is on top of the midi editor window. If you want you can zoom in on the clip to have more control on the side zoom buttons or with the mouse (ctrl + scroll). And you also can change the snap to grid (and change the behaviour) in any editor window so i really don't get why are you jumping so much from the editor to the clip and so on.

sorry I don't get how this method helps me.

Here's an example. I am here, fiddling with my drums in midi in 1/32

drums edit mode.JPG (163.91 KiB) Viewed 2071 times

I made a new drum edit, but I want to try if it will work better at another point in the track, so I have to move it and snap it tightly in-between other clips like so:

move the clip.JPG (80.89 KiB) Viewed 2071 times

I do agree a snap adjacent would be interesting but how would it work if the size of the clip wasn't right? Anyway it's not THAT difficult and not THAT time consuming. IMHO.

Although this can be fixed by another "if" in the built-in sequencer logic, I wouldn't even dream of it at this point. Make me do it manually in those cases, whatever. But man, this is a massive time sink, easily hours in a breaks track.

2 - I'm not commenting about the zoom much more than it works for me, specially because using the z and shift+z and so on allow me to work with the zoom really fast and almost without using the mouse. The mouse wheel is also helpful but the z and shift+z with context of the clips, work like a charm. And Z also sends you into the editors and works ok inside the editors. Again, personal opinion. It works well for me and probably because i use this software for so many years. Plus, if you select multiple clips, the z function will always respond to the selected context. If you select 3 notes in your midi editor, z will zoom to that context.

That's already been mentioned in the thread I linked earlier, and even if you also use shift+tab on top of what you're suggesting, it's still not as good as you might think, because it only works well within your field of view, and to move your FOV you have to either shift+scroll or even worse - mouse click and drag the bottom timeline bar. This becomes progressively more of a time sink the longer your project gets. Not to mention it's a hell of a lot of APM to press all those button combinations and scroll for something as simple as navigation (select a clip, Z, shift+Z, shift+tab, shift+scroll - that's 4 (!!!) different bindings). No, this is not good.

3 - Ok for your drum chopping thing... answering in parts:
- The block opens empty because you never put anything there. It's not useless, you just didn't use it before, it is not useless per se. However, you can copy anything from the sequencer to a block. No need for a "convert clips to new block" function, because go figure, the application is coherent and copy - paste works across the whole sections where a given type of data is compatible.

Again, I've not much experience with Blocks, but why would it be okay to waste time on copying something from anywhere to anywhere, if I already created this data in Song Mode? Why is it a separate window?

- You can add additional bars to a section of the sequencer (it even works on the blocks section). Just put your locators on a bar, click between the locators, and select "insert Bars between locators". The whole song will translate the bars you put and it will work for 1 or n bars.

I'm using it. It's terrible. Once again, I have to zoom to grid, put both markers where I want them, then zoom out again to go back for the clip I need inserted, drag it to the new bars and zoom in to grid again, or change grid settings with my mouse instead of all the zooming. Also, this method sometimes produces audible glitches. In live all of this is replaced by just dragging a clip and slamming it in wherever, with everything else moving forward or backward automatically.

I don't know if you're seeing what i'm saying here... but imho, i'm starting to guess that your friend took 2 minutes to do something you did in 20 because maybe (just maybe) he read the manual of his software...

I'm assuming that "by taking 2 minutes" you were referring to the hotkey list and not the actual full manual? It's on my wall and I pretty much have it all memorized by now, also making new macros with 3rd party software as I go, but yes, I'm definitely still learning.

[Oquasec]

In the timeline where the numbers up top that's actually where the blocks snap to.
So all you need to do is set the tempo to whatever fits a specific time marker up there and you are gucci.

[guitfnky]

I'm using it. It's terrible. Once again, I have to zoom to grid, put both markers where I want them, then zoom out again to go back for the clip I need inserted, drag it to the new bars and zoom in to grid again, or change grid settings with my mouse instead of all the zooming. Also, this method sometimes produces audible glitches. In live all of this is replaced by just dragging a clip and slamming it in wherever, with everything else moving forward or backward automatically.

that took you what, 30 seconds to type all that, but it took you 20 minutes to do those steps three times? no way. you're talking about all this zooming in and out and zipping all over, but I just did it like 10 times this morning in a project, and barely had to do any zooming--it took me probably a minute, all told, to do all ten. like I said before, unless you're trying to paste in a part that's not in time with the rest of the music, there's no way it's that heavy a lift.

I'm assuming that "by taking 2 minutes" you were referring to the hotkey list and not the actual full manual? It's on my wall and I pretty much have it all memorized by now, also making new macros with 3rd party software as I go, but yes, I'm definitely still learning.

not buying that. if you'd memorized the manual by now, you'd at least have an idea how to use Blocks, and wouldn't have expected them to have random music in them already.

[Oquasec]

Blocks work how they should cuz pattern modes are always locked to certain timeline points.
Their purpose though was just to make loop building or song part more accessible

[EdwardKiy]

that took you what, 30 seconds to type all that, but it took you 20 minutes to do those steps three times? no way. you're talking about all this zooming in and out and zipping all over, but I just did it like 10 times this morning in a project, and barely had to do any zooming--it took me probably a minute, all told, to do all ten. like I said before, unless you're trying to paste in a part that's not in time with the rest of the music, there's no way it's that heavy a lift.

Hey. Missed your response yesterday somehow and yes, the track was 6/4 and the drums were 5/4, and it IS doable, but it's nothing like dropping a clip with a hotkey. On the other hand, I'm starting to think my mate somehow populated the Block/arrangement view in Live without me noticing it, because he'd also done basic channel mixing without me noticing WHILE moving clips. And I was starting in his screen that whole time. All laptop, not even a midi controller.

not buying that. if you'd memorized the manual by now, you'd at least have an idea how to use Blocks, and wouldn't have expected them to have random music in them already.

the hotkey list is not that long. Or did you think I meant memorizing the manual? that's what - 2500+ pages with all the suite stuff? There's a number of instruments I haven't even touched yet, let alone read on them.

[guitfnky]

that took you what, 30 seconds to type all that, but it took you 20 minutes to do those steps three times? no way. you're talking about all this zooming in and out and zipping all over, but I just did it like 10 times this morning in a project, and barely had to do any zooming--it took me probably a minute, all told, to do all ten. like I said before, unless you're trying to paste in a part that's not in time with the rest of the music, there's no way it's that heavy a lift.

Hey. Missed your response yesterday somehow and yes, the track was 6/4 and the drums were 5/4, and it IS doable, but it's nothing like dropping a clip with a hotkey. On the other hand, I'm starting to think my mate somehow populated the Block/arrangement view in Live without me noticing it, because he'd also done basic channel mixing without me noticing WHILE moving clips. And I was starting in his screen that whole time. All laptop, not even a midi controller.

not buying that. if you'd memorized the manual by now, you'd at least have an idea how to use Blocks, and wouldn't have expected them to have random music in them already.

the hotkey list is not that long. Or did you think I meant memorizing the manual? that's what - 2500+ pages with all the suite stuff? There's a number of instruments I haven't even touched yet, let alone read on them.

ah yeah, I misunderstood—thought you were talking about the full manual. some people are fast readers.

and I agree the ‘insert between markers’ could be made better. what you describe would be a good addition—insert the copied clip(s) at the playhead, and automatically handle clip fades, etc. what we have works, but it’s not perfect.

[mcatalao]

sorry I don't get how this method helps me.

Here's an example. I am here, fiddling with my drums in midi in 1/32

I made a new drum edit, but I want to try if it will work better at another point in the track, so I have to move it and snap it tightly in-between other clips like so...

And i'm saying that the section adjacent to the multi lanes are your sequencer clips and you can edit them as if you were in the squencer, over blocks or any of the tracks clips:

That's already been mentioned in the thread I linked earlier, and even if you also use shift+tab on top of what you're suggesting, it's still not as good as you might think, because it only works well within your field of view, and to move your FOV you have to either shift+scroll or even worse - mouse click and drag the bottom timeline bar. This becomes progressively more of a time sink the longer your project gets. Not to mention it's a hell of a lot of APM to press all those button combinations and scroll for something as simple as navigation (select a clip, Z, shift+Z, shift+tab, shift+scroll - that's 4 (!!!) different bindings). No, this is not good.

As i said, not commenting anymore on the zoom, other than learn to use it.

Again, I've not much experience with Blocks, but why would it be okay to waste time on copying something from anywhere to anywhere, if I already created this data in Song Mode? Why is it a separate window?
(...)
I'm using it. It's terrible. Once again, I have to zoom to grid, put both markers where I want them, then zoom out again to go back for the clip I need inserted, drag it to the new bars and zoom in to grid again, or change grid settings with my mouse instead of all the zooming. Also, this method sometimes produces audible glitches. In live all of this is replaced by just dragging a clip and slamming it in wherever, with everything else moving forward or backward automatically.

That i can't believe, because one of your problems was specifically not using the feature. It's different from how Live implements it but it's there and is quite useful. It makes you do a couple more steps, but surely wouldn't increase the task to 20 minutes.

I'm assuming that "by taking 2 minutes" you were referring to the hotkey list and not the actual full manual? It's on my wall and I pretty much have it all memorized by now, also making new macros with 3rd party software as I go, but yes, I'm definitely still learning.

No, taking 2 minutes i was referring to your friends time to do the same task you took 20.

[kuhliloach]

Great stuff here! Blocks should be able to overlap. Blocks have multiple uses such as being Reason's section marker system, everything should be a Block of somekind, Blocks should do everything a Clip in Ableton can do and much more.

[xbitz]

blocks can work very well with pattern selector based player devices (so if u put only pattern selectors in it) especially because of the blocks able to overlap each other

[FLVZ]

Extensively!

I tend to come up with multiple ideas in one sitting and having the ability to sketch in a completely fresh sequencer without having to close and open projects is a workflow dream. Furthermore it allows me to experiment with ideas, and once a block is painted in song mode I can record over it and add or trial ideas on the fly. Also use blocks for live performance since i can automate the tempo in each block

I'd never really thought about Blocks this way, thanks for the tip man.
Each Block could also be a different arrangement/ edit of the same track. And you could have a different mix for each arrangement using automation clips.
Be nice to be able to call up multiple different mixes as an future option but for now this is a great new way of thinking about Blocks.
Is there any restriction to using Blocks full time? In other words, do you ever have to not be using a Block? You can Bounce your track/ loop so I can't think of any reason why Blocks shouldn't be the default if you choose.....but maybe I just haven't used them enough.

No restriction only more flexibility. In the beginning getting used to the change is difficult and thats why a lot of people are afraid to stick at it, but Blocks is on of the Reasons I love creating in Reason so much. I can just sketch around and then trial different sections then finish the songs in song mode by painting in transitions/ automation or whatever.

[FLVZ]

People keep saying blocks should overlap, and not going to lie once upon a time I thought that this was necessary too (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7506678&p=389843&hi ... ks#p389843 ) .

But you'll find Bouncing block to song clip sufficient for this, where its midi you simply bounce in place and then use crossfade to combine sections.

[selig]

People keep saying blocks should overlap…

I'll add that since audio tracks (and automation tracks) cannot overlap (you'll only hear one of them), if blocks COULD overlap you would get VERY unpredictable results if they contain audio tracks. As a designer, you have to make Blocks work for ALL file types. Any workarounds would only add complexity IMO, so I wouldn't expect to ever see this feature in Reason without other major changes, unless I'm missing something obvious.

[orthodox]

People keep saying blocks should overlap…

I'll add that since audio tracks (and automation tracks) cannot overlap (you'll only hear one of them), if blocks COULD overlap you would get VERY unpredictable results if they contain audio tracks. As a designer, you have to make Blocks work for ALL file types. Any workarounds would only add complexity IMO, so I wouldn't expect to ever see this feature in Reason without other major changes, unless I'm missing something obvious.

Why not just implement it without any workarounds and warn that overlapping clips could lead to unpredictable results and let users sort out their particular cases. Anyway, it's already possible when both song and a block contain an audio clip on the same track, and the conflict is resolved somehow.

[xbitz]

I would say at least the muted region/clips should be transparent one same way as in the top arranger layer

now the one in block covers the layer under it vs the arranger one which is transparent

[guitfnky]

I'll add that since audio tracks (and automation tracks) cannot overlap (you'll only hear one of them), if blocks COULD overlap you would get VERY unpredictable results if they contain audio tracks. As a designer, you have to make Blocks work for ALL file types. Any workarounds would only add complexity IMO, so I wouldn't expect to ever see this feature in Reason without other major changes, unless I'm missing something obvious.

Why not just implement it without any workarounds and warn that overlapping clips could lead to unpredictable results and let users sort out their particular cases. Anyway, it's already possible when both song and a block contain an audio clip on the same track, and the conflict is resolved somehow.

what do you mean when you say the conflict is resolved? there’s no conflict. whatever is in the sequencer clip will play back, regardless of what may be in the block behind it. blocks are foundational—that is, anything you put on top of them will take precedent, but if you move them or trim something out of the way, the block will still be there.

it’s one of the biggest features of Blocks, to allow the flexibility to use a block to quickly repeat important sections, yet easily customize particular parts when needed.

to answer your question about opening it up for overlapping and letting the user sort it out, I suspect the answer is that Reason is all about stability and predictability (devices that introduce randomness, notwithstanding)—making a feature out of something that isn’t predictable goes against the ethos of the platform. that’s obviously just a guess though.

[xbitz]

btw different instances of the same visually overlapping blocks can be muted differently which is a nice/useful non-destructive creative arranger/productivity tool

like it

[Sterioevo]

btw different instances of the same visually overlapping blocks can be muted differently which is a nice/useful non-destructive creative arranger/productivity tool

like it

That's very useful, thanks for sharing.

[dvdrtldg]

Every now & then I accidentally hit the Blocks button at the top of the sequencer, and spend a few seconds going "Huh...? wut tha fuck...??" at my new screen

Then I realise what's happened, hit the Song button and carry on

Apart from that, I never use Blocks

[orthodox]

what do you mean when you say the conflict is resolved? there’s no conflict. whatever is in the sequencer clip will play back, regardless of what may be in the block behind it. blocks are foundational—that is, anything you put on top of them will take precedent, but if you move them or trim something out of the way, the block will still be there.

Okay that was a bad example, but there are other situations, like overlapping clips where there is a simple rule, the clip that starts later takes precedence, or the last moved one if multiple clips start at the same position. If multiple lanes contain performance controllers, the topmost lane has the priority. Multiple lanes can play the same note, I'm sure there is some rule for that. Something like that could be set for blocks as well.

to answer your question about opening it up for overlapping and letting the user sort it out, I suspect the answer is that Reason is all about stability and predictability (devices that introduce randomness, notwithstanding)—making a feature out of something that isn’t predictable goes against the ethos of the platform. that’s obviously just a guess though.

The unpredictable cases can only occur when overlapping blocks happen to contain clips on the same track. It's up to the user doing arrangement to decide which clip should play and which to mute. The decision should not be left at some rule, be it predictable or vague. So if the user fails to determine what they want, something arbitrary is chosen just to keep things going.

[eiresurfer]

yeah, this would be awesome. at least a couple of times in every song I wish I could just pull one of the tracks forward, instead of having to do all of them, and then removing the ones I don’t need to edit.

Maybe i don't get the problem, but what's wrong about “Convert Block Automation to Song Clips”? That it pulls all the lanes from the block?

I've been a Reason user for a long time, and I never noticed this feature until now!

[Oquasec]

The pattern mode is honestly not bad at all. I just wish it was 999 blocks :/

[Sterioevo]

What can you build with 32 blocks?

[guitfnky]

What can you build with 32 blocks?

whole, complex songs? I do it all the time. I’ve rarely ever used more than 5 blocks in a song.

honestly, I‘m starting to think everyone saying they need so many more blocks is probably not really using what’s already there to its full potential. I mean, who writes songs with more than 32 sections?

[Oquasec]

I rarely use that many patterns in fl studio cuz of the infinite length of patterns thing but still.
It's an unnecessary limitation.